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A Revolution in Your Pocket

237 点作者 UkiahSmith将近 6 年前

26 条评论

RodgerTheGreat将近 6 年前
I&#x27;m definitely sympathetic to the ideas described in this article. I strongly feel that software should be designed to serve the interests of users, and running locally is structurally necessary to accomplish this.<p>For some applications, it seems plausible that mesh networking and cooperative routing could potentially replace centralized communications infrastructure. It&#x27;s probably OK if an email takes half an hour or more to wind its way through intermittently connected machines to get to a recipient, and for things like maps and restaurant menus you can take advantage of physical locality.<p>Most of the time, though, the decentralized approach means information propagates slower, less reliably, and with greater need for redundancy (and thus overhead), so anything that&#x27;s already challenging current infrastructure, like livestreaming video, is right off the table. And then there&#x27;s the part where if you aren&#x27;t living in an urban center there may well not be any other machines for miles to mesh with.<p>I&#x27;m also doubtful about the assertion that mobile devices are up to the task of &quot;machine learning&quot;. Cell phones have severely limited power and thermal dissipation capacity. The tensor units that have started to show up on mobile devices are exclusively designed to _evaluate_ pre-trained networks; training is far more expensive and practical today only because of the economies of scale in a datacenter: train once, run many times. But to train fancy NNs, you need big heaps of data, too, and not always the sort of data you can source in an... entirely above-board manner.<p>Perhaps the answer is simply that some of these things aren&#x27;t done anymore, or at least not for free?
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shtack将近 6 年前
We&#x27;ve been working on a very similar idea to this for the past few months: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pocketweb.io" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pocketweb.io</a><p>There is a very early iOS beta available, and Android is coming within the month. We&#x27;ve thought a lot about battery and data and have gotten really good results by leveraging existing radio wakeups, batching requests, and doing all sorts of optimizations to the sites themselves.<p>Right now we&#x27;re focused entirely on personal websites, because we believe the majority of those can actually easily be hosted on a phone (eg. How many people actually view your LinkedIn page every day? A single Facebook page doesn&#x27;t require a datacenter. Etc).<p>We&#x27;re limited to single static pages with images right now but better support for multiple pages and server code with SQLite is coming. More template types, for example stores, are coming as well.<p>Let us know what you think!
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mwcampbell将近 6 年前
I noticed that the word &quot;battery&quot; doesn&#x27;t appear anywhere in this post. Isn&#x27;t conserving battery power one reason why we delegate so much to central services?<p>That said, I think the wireless routers that a lot of us have in our homes could play an important role in this kind of decentralized Internet. They&#x27;d need to have more computing power than many wireless routers do, but that&#x27;s OK because they&#x27;re already plugged into the wall all the time.
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ggm将近 6 年前
This feels like a superset of the problem medical records management is in a digital age.<p>There are the bits you need public. your anaphylaxis status. your advanced health directive with &#x27;do not rescucitate&#x27; and your organ donation status.<p>There are the bits you need semi public. You need a trained health professional in sexual health to know you have chlamydia, but its not relevant to a physio doing upper body work.<p>There are the bits you need private. your mental health status adversely affects your employer insurance, and your employment. You do not wish this revealed randomly.<p>Some health models empower some health professionals with magic override keys to see almost all of it.<p>Some models empower statisticians to see all of it in 100 years after your death.<p>Some models you carry it in a smart card. Some models you carry keys, and its in a central DB.
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FerretFred将近 6 年前
This article really resonated with me. I rarely use my Android phone for talking to people, and the apps and setup are geared to getting work done securely and with as much privacy as possible. I seem to spend a <i>lot</i> of time tweaking settings to stop Google trying to run my life and monitoring me. Overall, I have a good experience but I really wish I didn&#x27;t have to keep fighting my phone!<p>What would <i>really</i> make a difference (to me at least) would be a libre phone&#x2F;OS. Yes, I know these are available but I can&#x27;t afford them. What we need is a freedom-minded philanthropist to step in and Save The World. Once we have a more private phone then surely privacy-designed systems could flourish, as the author describes. If that happened I&#x27;d be there like a bear!
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jcfrei将近 6 年前
This is an idea that keeps coming back every 2 years or so. While it is enticing to think about, these ideas never manifest into anything. With most decentralized projects there usually hasn&#x27;t been a big enough financial incentive to execute them.
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fenwick67将近 6 年前
The author should check out Scuttlebutt if they haven&#x27;t already. There&#x27;s a compatible mobile app called Manyverse which will sync your social feed over WLAN or Bluetooth with peers while it&#x27;s open, and also over the DHT and via public forwarding servers.
tomxor将近 6 年前
&gt; Many, if not most, of us already own a hand-sized computer with a persistent network connection that we take pretty much everywhere and which lives in our pockets or bags. The top of the line Android and Apple personal computing devices [...] run at upwards of 2 Ghz, have around 4GB of RAM, and on-board storage ranging between 64 and 512 GB.<p>Who is &quot;many of us&quot; really? If this is supposed to be a promising new avenue for decentralising the internet it seems a little premature... I feel like there are too many wide eyed rich people with $1k phones living in a bubble sometimes - the vast majority of the world cannot afford the expensive toys you take for granted.<p>&gt; honestly, does anyone use their “phone” primarily as a voice communication device anymore?<p>Most of the world... (The internet does exist outside san francisco, but hey you can decentralise _your_ internet I guess)
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sorrowfulgeek将近 6 年前
This is not a new idea. Apple already emphasises that they do all the machine learning on your own device and no data is sent to the cloud. But this approach only works well for a small class of problems. For other types of problems you need to look at data wholistically at a large scale in order to see patterns and you need a cloud service.<p>But more importantly we know that complex services break once in a while. If such services run on entirely on your personal device then the complexity of your device goes up exponentially. That’s not good. We learned in the 90’s that a better model is to centralize complexity, and make end devices as simple as possible. (Look up Larry Ellison’s 90’s speeches about Network Computing.) So, no, moving the center of computing to personal devices is not a good idea!
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mark_l_watson将近 6 年前
Nice write up. I am straying off topic, but I am interested in local decentralized data, machine learning, and apps. I switched to iOS several years ago for privacy reasons, but at least a few years ago it was a nuisance to permanently install one’s own apps on your iPhone. My iOS developer account expired a few years ago so maybe this has changed. It seems important to be able to build apps from source code and install them on your own device. Android is probably a better story for this but my Samsung phones had a ton of crap ware on them, taking hours to clean up (as much as possible). What do people use? De-Googlized Androids? Easier way to install one’s own iOS apps just on your device?
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genpfault将近 6 年前
Keeping all those radios powered on and transmitting&#x2F;receiving for mesh network servicing&#x2F;upkeep is going to burn through battery pretty quick :(
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JohnJamesRambo将近 6 年前
Is there any hope we can have something like a &quot;Linux phone&quot; someday and not have to cater to anyone or any privacy infringement at all?
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Causality1将近 6 年前
Assuming I&#x27;m an average user, this revolution would require my phone to double the time spent transmitting and receiving data, and block off a large chunk of its internal storage for information I don&#x27;t care about. I cannot imagine as a consumer thinking these losses if battery life and data capacity ever being worth it.
ekianjo将近 6 年前
Sharing data directly from mobile sounds like a poor idea since data caps and data volume pricing is rampant in many countries. Plus it is likely to make a poor battery life even worse. I would rather folks upload data on their home or shared servers for sharing purposes.
SmellyGeekBoy将近 6 年前
A decentralised internet running on mobile devices? Richard Hendricks would like a word.
fit2rule将近 6 年前
I really wish the OS vendors weren&#x27;t asleep at the wheel on this one, or otherwise being distracted by the effort to just &#x27;move everything to the cloud&#x27;.<p>Imagine if we had an OS that solved the usability problems of IPFS and made it immensely easy to publish content on ones own named segment of an IPFS network - instead of having things like Dropbox glom themselves around a paltry excuse for file-sharing system services that exist in most modern OS&#x27;s today?<p>Wouldn&#x27;t it be grand if someone write an email client - yes, EMAIL - that integrated with a smart contact system, allowing one to run and operate ones own social network without requiring any further infrastructure beyond local, private email services. Everything I do on Facebook, I was once able to do just as easily on Email - the interface is the only difference. I want social networking back under my control again, and a return to email, wrapped in a better local tool for providing the services, is the way to do it.<p>I also want to be able to turn myself off the Internet - having the ability to turn my phone off and be unavailable to the Internet at large - not just as a consumer, but also as a provider of information - should be a basic, inarguable right.<p>If the OS vendors weren&#x27;t chasing the cloud bucks, this would be a reality.<p>I believe an opportunity for a smart team exists: build a Linux distribution which incorporates a few basic ideological rules:<p>* The user owns their data<p>* The user controls their data<p>* No new services or protocols are needed to provide better services: Use OSI properly or GTFO<p>* The UI is the final frontier for freedom<p>* If the user wants to fully disappear: OFF SWITCH<p>* If the user wants to engage in public discourse: ON SWITCH<p>* De-centralize all the things, bring control back to the local user always<p>As the years go by, I feel more and more inclined to start a test-bed Linux distro which uses these rules to build out a user-controlled OS designed for widespread content distribution on the basis of such things as IPFS, albeit with a much, much better UI for maintaining ones assets than currently exists. If anyone else is interested in such an experiment, I am all ears ..
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nanomonkey将近 6 年前
Anyone interested in this sort of revolution should look into Dweb Camp (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;dwebcamp.org&#x2F;about&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;dwebcamp.org&#x2F;about&#x2F;</a>) put on by the Internet Archive crew. Folks from Mastodon, Gun, Scuttlebutt, IPFS, Beaker Browser (DAT), etc. will likely be there. If not, look into these names, download Manyverse for your Android phone (Scuttlebutt client) and start playing around.
jamesgeck0将近 6 年前
I keep waiting for someone to port Beaker Browser[1] or Dat to mobile.<p>1. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;beakerbrowser.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;beakerbrowser.com&#x2F;</a>
ilaksh将近 6 年前
I like a lot of these ideas. And eventually it seems like mobile devices is where it could go.<p>But before we are entirely reliant on mobile, we may be able to do a lot of it on our home computers over the regular internet using decentralized protocols.<p>But back to mobile, does anyone know of any open decentralized identity solutions that will run on a smartphone?
tanzbaer将近 6 年前
A summary at the beginning would be nice.
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ggreer将近 6 年前
I don&#x27;t know where to begin so I&#x27;ll just quote chunks and respond to them.<p>&gt; Our data will stay on our mobile computers and be backed up (encrypted of course) in the cloud<p>If one&#x27;s phone is stolen or destroyed, how does one restore from the cloud backup? What prevents me from buying a 2nd phone and attempting to &quot;restore&quot; it from my friend&#x27;s backup? Do I just have to guess his password? I&#x27;m imagining something like Apple&#x27;s iCloud backups but that service involves a <i>lot</i> of details that need to be right to ensure its security. That costs money, which means users either have to pay in cash or by having their data mined (or both).<p>I predict that the most popular backup service in this hypothetical world would be a free service that leaves user data unencrypted and sells it to 3rd parties.<p>&gt; We will carry with us the fundamental representation of our identity, backed and verified by advanced encryption, instead of cumbersome passwords or logins associated with the same large platforms that control our social lives<p>That&#x27;s great until the battery dies or there&#x27;s a hardware failure or the phone is lost or stolen. Then you have to restore from a backup and that means verifying your identity in some other manner. At some point, identity reduces to a combination of: 1. A password or secret. (Something you know.) 2. A token issued by some trusted entity declaring you are who you claim to be. (Something you have.) 3. A biometric. (Something you are.) Assuming your phone is dead, only option 1 can be used without a 3rd party storing identifying information about you.<p>&gt; Sharing of data, either broadly with a large group or directly person to person, will happen directly between mobile computers, skipping the intermediaries like Facebook or Twitter we’re used to today<p>People&#x27;s phones aren&#x27;t always online at the same time. Sometimes they&#x27;re in a tunnel or on a plane or away from civilization. Given that constraint, who is storing and transmitting the data between the two people? Who runs the service that lets phones say, &quot;I&#x27;m Bob&#x27;s phone. I want to talk to Alice&#x27;s phone. What is her IP? Oh she&#x27;s offline? OK send her this data when she&#x27;s back.&quot; Are they compensated for doing so? If not, why would they run such a service?<p>&gt; Artificial assistance will be local first – for example, searches for the best nearby coffee shop will turn to the nearby network for responses before asking the entire planet<p>I seriously doubt the local network would give better recommendations and results than Yelp or Google Maps, as both entities would sync the local info to their own databases and run their own algorithms on the data. Their results would be a superset of the local data with better algorithms. Who curates the local network&#x27;s results for spam or fake reviews? Why would they have an incentive to do so?<p>&gt; Machine learning will provide personalized intelligent assistance that runs on your own mobile computer<p>I don&#x27;t think that could work. The latest phones have hardware to run ML algorithms efficiently, but they don&#x27;t have the hardware to train them. That requires TPUs and a lot of power. Also you need large data sets to train models. That means aggregating lots of people&#x27;s data.<p>Most people either don&#x27;t understand or don&#x27;t care about the implications of Facebook&#x2F;Google&#x2F;Amazon slurping up information about them. If anything, people prefer it because they get a better experience. Their news feed has more interesting content. Their Amazon recommendations more closely match what they want. Their search results are more relevant. For these people, the current situation is a win-win.<p>I&#x27;m not against this idea, I just don&#x27;t think it has a chance of working. For something new to succeed, it needs to be more compelling than existing products. More importantly, it needs to offer advantages that existing products can&#x27;t copy. If at the end of the day you build something that&#x27;s slightly less convenient to use than Facebook, it doesn&#x27;t matter how privacy-centric it is. You&#x27;ll only attract a few idealists.
8bitsrule将近 6 年前
A phone is good for talking to people. Don&#x27;t need a computer for that. Much better audio (analog) would be a plus.<p>I&#x27;d use a mobile-sized computer with no radios, just ethernet, USB (for a keyboard) and HDMI (monitor).<p>Putting both in one package? just asking for troubles.
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stickfigure将近 6 年前
This is just... weird.<p>We have centralized services for a lot of reasons, but one of them is that they&#x27;re more reliable than decentralized systems. Phones get lost, stolen, drowned, and crushed. People drive through tunnels or into mountains without cell signal. Batteries die.<p>It seems patently absurd to think that a P2P network of handsets is somehow going to replace The Datacenter, on any timescale.
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verdverm将近 6 年前
What about the potential for malware propagation? Why should I trust the mesh network?
ohiovr将近 6 年前
reminds me of beartooth<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;beartooth.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;beartooth.com</a>
judge2020将近 6 年前
Would like to note that the idea of mesh decentralized networks is a big plot point (later) in the Silicon Valley HBO show - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;play.hbonow.com&#x2F;series&#x2F;urn:hbo:series:GVU2WugfAylFvjSoJATvA?camp=Search&amp;play=true" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;play.hbonow.com&#x2F;series&#x2F;urn:hbo:series:GVU2WugfAylFvj...</a>