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Tiananmen Square: China minister defends 1989 crackdown

131 点作者 Ennis将近 6 年前

14 条评论

dmix将近 6 年前
I wonder who asked the Tiananmen question to the minister from the audience in Singapore. That guy has some backbone, I like it. They should be challenged on the topic of their political repression more. And not just the typical American channels which Beijing finds easy to dismiss as western propaganda.<p>It&#x27;s a pretty simple equation. Why would any state have to spend so much explicit effort on making no one mention it, if there was nothing really wrong with it?<p>It will forever be the giant elephant in the room, regardless of how big and successful China makes itself. Few westerners really understanding how completely thorough and effective it was. The near universal obedience seen among the population would seem very foreign to most people in the west. Which is in itself an interesting cultural question.
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mrtimo将近 6 年前
I&#x27;m reading this thread while in a hotel a block away from the square in China (not on VPN, because that has not been working due to political events). Of course the BBC article is blocked. The thirtieth anniversary of the event is tomorrow.<p>Interesting that HN is not blocked.
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muterad_murilax将近 6 年前
Man, this entry disappeared from the frontpage quickly! Anyone knows why?
thrwwayy1905将近 6 年前
I am trying to understand what it feels like to Chinese people. As Americans, is there any past government action we can&#x27;t criticize? I am sure there is some example but I can&#x27;t think of it. Is there something similar for us?
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Nasrudith将近 6 年前
This sadly isn&#x27;t news - authoritarians never admit their mistakes.<p>They unironically invoked Mao&#x27;s pest campaign when the last time they did that they created mass famine because in the absense of chemical pesticides it is far preferable to pay the &quot;sparrow tax&quot; than have uneaten locust grubs eat everything.<p>The best they have for Mao is doublethink where they abandoned his views and suppress Maoists while refusing to condemn him and his mistakes for fear of it harming their &quot;legitimacy&quot;.
smacke将近 6 年前
As of this writing, this post is 2 hours old, ranked #96 (4th page of HN), and has 117 points. I believe it was on the front page 30 minutes ago. This is a steep drop in ranking -- what are the factors in the HN ranking algorithm that could contribute to this?
Ennis将近 6 年前
I posted for the long Kate Adie video in the article which I had not seen before.<p>The other reason is my concern at a defence minister even mentioning this event when everyone is aware of the state position already. It seems to be an expansion of the conversation from trade and market access to ideology which is unfortunate. There&#x27;s enough to sort out with just market access, currency flows and IP.
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m0zg将近 6 年前
I feel like China has learned from Perestroika and made a conscious choice not to go down that path, but instead focus on economic freedoms rather than political. To offer some perspective: the 90&#x27;s were a dark time in Russia. The Soviet Union disintegrated, taking large chunks of deliberately decentralized economy with it, there was hunger, hyperinflation, deficit of basic goods (same shit you&#x27;re seeing in Venezuela right now), and the poorer, older, less economically nimble part of society was disproportionately impacted.<p>This was, in large part, because people were given near total freedom (far more of it than you see in the US today) in one fell swoop, and _way_ before they knew what to do with it. Naturally, some people were much better than others at turning this to their advantage, opportunistically injecting themselves into the corridors of power, buying up previously state-owned factories for fractions of a penny on the dollar, swindling the common people out of whatever breadcrumbs the government threw to them during privatization.<p>This shit was allowed to run unabated for a decade or so, and ended up with Yeltsin hanging up his hat and apologizing on TV, before de-facto installing Putin as his successor. The people behind this were Siloviki: the powerful folks who run or otherwise control Russia&#x27;s several security services.<p>In retrospect, given the amount of pain, death, and suffering inflicted on the general public, it could be that shooting a few hotheads early on would be an objectively better option. The country could then proceed to a much more controlled and measured liberalization, with law and order carefully enforced throughout, rather than a decade-long free-for-all (or rather &quot;a few&quot;) that ensued in practice.<p>That&#x27;s not to say that Tiananmen suppression was justified. I grew up in Russia, so I was a direct observer and participant of the events I describe above, so in the case of Russia I can tell you with a good degree of confidence that if the wild 90&#x27;s weren&#x27;t allowed to happen there to the extent that they did, Russia would be far better off.<p>Stuff like this also can&#x27;t be judged by reading propaganda, foreign or domestic, so those who haven&#x27;t been there at that time should refrain from commenting one way or the other. That&#x27;d be just regurgitating someone else&#x27;s talking points: an entirely pointless exercise.<p>I&#x27;d love to hear from someone who lived in China at that time and for whom this is not something they&#x27;ve read about on the Internet.
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megous将近 6 年前
Meanwhile, the same thing is repeating in Sudan at the exact same day and nobody cares. Peaceful months long sit-in met with violence.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;search?q=%23SudanUprising&amp;src=tyah" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;search?q=%23SudanUprising&amp;src=tyah</a>
hajile将近 6 年前
If you want to learn about the incident, here&#x27;s a great documentary (NSFW)<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=Gt5cYU70ujs" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=Gt5cYU70ujs</a>
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nickysielicki将近 6 年前
Same sort of response I&#x27;d expect an American Government Diplomat to give if asked about what happened to the 82 men&#x2F;women&#x2F;children of the Branch Davidians in Waco, TX.<p>Governments defend their actions, usually.
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marak830将近 6 年前
&quot;That incident was a political turbulence and the central government took measures to stop the turbulence, which is a correct policy,&quot; he told the forum.<p>Gunning down protesters then grinding into a mulch with tanks and aocs, so that you can wash the remains down the gutters is never a solution.<p>Trying to push this incident into the background only shows how little change has happened.<p>Once more - this isn&#x27;t a situation you can ever forgive a government for. There is no ifs, buts or collateral reasons for this.
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bitbatbangboo将近 6 年前
&quot;Crackdown&quot;, in 10 years it&#x27;ll be &quot;Trouble&quot; then &quot;Protest&quot; then &quot;Revolt&quot;
peisistratos将近 6 年前
It sounds like the US government ministers who defended the 1992 crackdown in Los Angeles at the Republican National Convention and elsewhere. The US army marched in to quell the upset, and dozens were killed.<p>Although we do not hear much about that in the US other than praise of the army. Just endless rehashes of Beijing events before LA happened, in the middle of Trump&#x27;s trade and South China sea war with China.
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