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Biggest Offender in Outsize Debt: Master’s Degrees

152 点作者 joker3将近 6 年前

23 条评论

ghobs91将近 6 年前
This is what happens when there&#x27;s 0 pressure on universities to price their programs competitively. If the government is backing every loan, the schools get paid up front, and the risk is then transferred to the gov to collect, why WOULDN&#x27;T a university charge as high a tuition as possible and hop on the gravy train?<p>Their non-profit status hasn&#x27;t even done much to keep costs low, as they can just keep hiring tons of redundant administrators and have never-ending construction, thereby justifying higher tuitions as &quot;operating costs&quot;.<p>The dept of education needs to treat universities the same way Medicaid treats healthcare providers. Determine what it actually costs per student per year to run a university, and tell the schools &quot;Accept $x or shove off&quot;. If they&#x27;re going to benefit from gov backed loans, they should play by the govs rules.<p>Look no further than this chart (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;B3sVMjg.png" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;B3sVMjg.png</a>), around 2010 was when the gov started fully backing and giving the loans directly, and conveniently it&#x27;s when students needs for loans skyrocketed. It&#x27;s so obvious that colleges took advantage of it.<p>Enough is enough, this college cost situation is entirely the fault of the gov for allowing it to happen, and it&#x27;s a massive drag on our economy and the potential of our citizens.
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prions将近 6 年前
I went back for my masters in CS after being a civil engineer for two years and learning cs my free time.<p>These articles panning formal education don&#x27;t fully grasp how difficult it is to get your foot in the door as a non-cs person whose also working full time.<p>I also wanted to do something more technical than just web dev, which most career changers seem to land up in. Being a grad student opened a lot of doors into more technical roles in companies that are _only_ reserved for grad students.<p>Grad school is expensive, but I went in with a solid plan. I mitigated some of this by going to an in-state school with a good CS program and commuting to class. I was very focused in my course choices and was a 4.0 student, which unlocked even more opportunities.<p>I was able to land two good internships (one in embedded development and one in machine learning) and used that experience to springboard into a high paying role in NYC. I have no problems living alone in the city, paying my loans, and still saving a significant amount of money per paycheck.<p>This is completely anecdotal but what I&#x27;m arguing is that grad school can be a good idea if you have a solid plan of how to get the most out of your education. The people I see who haven&#x27;t gotten their money&#x27;s worth came into school and just drifted through while assuming that opportunities would come to them just by virtue of being a grad student.
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crsv将近 6 年前
As someone who&#x27;s hiring folks right now, a shocking trend is applicants who chained expensive middle tier private college expenses with middle to low tier private college masters programs - often times unrelated to the ultimately role they&#x27;re applying to now.<p>These investments aren&#x27;t setting them up to be compelling candidates against folks who have equal and sometimes lesser tier schools as their undergraduate education coupled with meaningful real world experience. This carries over to performance in interviews as it related to applied knowledge as well. I&#x27;d say when putting a risk lens to this, it doesn&#x27;t bode well for the likelyhood of timely repayment of this debt at scale.
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rongenre将近 6 年前
Grad school really needs to have a cost&#x2F;benefit analysis applied. I&#x27;d have loved to go and really deepen my understanding, but it&#x27;s pretty clear that both in terms of income lost and not a huge premium paid by the industry over my BS and experience it&#x27;s not worth it.<p>It is something I may pursue if I get a windfall and am no longer concerned about retirement.
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permatech将近 6 年前
In engineering the quip was always &quot;if you&#x27;re paying for graduate school you&#x27;re doing it wrong&quot; ... to even get in the door for most hardware jobs fresh out of school you need a MS. A PhD may be preferred, and will start with a higher salary -- but put in ~5yrs instead of 2. As long as the tuition is covered and you make money as a TA or RA in a low-cost of living area you should come out ahead in the engineering field. Not sure how that translates to software.
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dpflan将近 6 年前
I think a good example of good economic value are the growing offerings for M.S. in C.S., like Georgia Tech&#x27;s OSMCS program which is offered completely online at a price less than $10K total.<p>&quot;&quot;&quot; Tuition &amp; Fees for OMS CS: Tuition: $510 per 3-credit hour course (most OMS CS courses will be 3 credit hours) Fees: $301 per academic term of enrollment ($194 institutional fee + $107 technology fee). Fees are assessed only for those terms in which students are enrolled in courses. &quot;&quot;&quot;<p>&gt; <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.omscs.gatech.edu&#x2F;program-info&#x2F;cost-payment-schedule" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.omscs.gatech.edu&#x2F;program-info&#x2F;cost-payment-sched...</a><p>There are other programs, like Data Analytics.
JackFr将近 6 年前
I&#x27;m not sure what societal purpose is being served by Federal student loans as a class for graduate school. Eliminate them entirely.<p>The primary effect will be to reduce the disconnect between the cost and the value. As an added benefit prices should come down, schools at the margin will fail.
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duxup将近 6 年前
I wonder as far as education goes if graduating college, working, and then returning for a masters or similar things would be a better pattern. Or even graduating high school, working, college, working, college, or something else would be a better pattern.<p>I&#x27;ve worked with some folks with MBAs who have no clue about how to work with people &#x2F; think they&#x27;re just &quot;the boss&quot; and what they say goes because no reason at all. Worked with folks with CS degrees who I don&#x27;t think really like to code &#x2F; can&#x27;t troubleshoot at all.<p>Front heavy education seems efficient on the surface, but I&#x27;m not sure makes sense without having a perspective on what life is like after that.
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deepakhj将近 6 年前
California already had free education. See the &quot;California Master Plan for Higher Education.&quot; We had to stop because of prop 13.<p>&quot;The State’s higher education and prison systems are a study in opposites. The prison system saw its state funding in dollars leap 436% between 1980 and 2011. Back then, spending on prisons was a mere 3% of California’s budget; it’s now 10%.&quot;<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.motherjones.com&#x2F;politics&#x2F;2012&#x2F;10&#x2F;california-public-university-higher-education&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.motherjones.com&#x2F;politics&#x2F;2012&#x2F;10&#x2F;california-publ...</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;time.com&#x2F;4276222&#x2F;free-college&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;time.com&#x2F;4276222&#x2F;free-college&#x2F;</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;senate.ucsf.edu&#x2F;sites&#x2F;default&#x2F;files&#x2F;2017-02&#x2F;Reclaiming-Californias-Master-Plan-for-Higher-Education.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;senate.ucsf.edu&#x2F;sites&#x2F;default&#x2F;files&#x2F;2017-02&#x2F;Reclaimi...</a>
raleigh_user将近 6 年前
I did school =&gt; work =&gt; now going back to school. Granted I didn’t study CS undergrad but taught myself a lot.<p>Since, I’ve learned and worked on some interesting problems. I want to work in big tech or in consulting. To do so, I need to be a lot better and&#x2F;or have great grades.<p>So spending 2 years going back to school and improving seems worth it to me.<p>I have 0 student loans from undergrad and very minimal commitments as is.
madengr将近 6 年前
Who the hell pays for an MS?<p>At least back when I was in engineering grad school, everyone was covered by RA or TA grants, in addition to being paid by those.<p>Of course in-state tuition at KU in 1996 was under $100&#x2F;credit-hour, so if I did pay, those 9 credits&#x2F;semester would be under $1k total.
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noodlesUK将近 6 年前
Every time the topic of universities comes up, I’m reminded of how the staffing makeup of my university has changed, even just in the past 5 years. It’s gone from the majority of staff being academic to a majority being non-academic. Whether this is a symptom or a cause is as yet unclear, but at least here in the UK, a trend towards the wastefulness I hear about in US institutions seems clear. Just this month we’ve started an academic restructure which adds an additional layer of administration staff across the university, replacing the few specifically departmental administrators with a much larger body of admin staff who have a much larger remit.
F_J_H将近 6 年前
Something I&#x27;ve speculated on - being a student provides a person with an identity that is reasonably &quot;high status&quot;, or certainly higher status than an entry level position one might be forced to take in absence of a finding a job in one&#x27;s chosen field of study upon earning a Bachelor&#x27;s degree. (Especially if it&#x27;s a Master&#x27;s program.) So, for some, continuing on with a master&#x27;s degree is preferable, despite the questionable marginal return.<p>On the other hand, degree inflation is now a thing. In some fields, those you are competing with you for a job likely have master&#x27;s degrees already, and you&#x27;ll suffer by comparison.<p>*edit: typos
Merrill将近 6 年前
A Master&#x27;s Degree seems most useful in two cases: 1. to change field if you made a mistake with your Bachelor&#x27;s, or 2. to enter the US after getting a Bachelor&#x27;s in your home country.
blockchainman将近 6 年前
“To quote an official of the U.S. Department of Education, many colleges “choose to increase tuition because they can get away with it.” - The scandal of tuition by Thomas Sowell
s1mon将近 6 年前
Academy of Art is a real estate company with an education problem. They have countless illegally modified buildings around SF (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sfgate.com&#x2F;bayarea&#x2F;matier-ross&#x2F;article&#x2F;Academy-of-Art-agrees-to-60-million-settlement-10804028.php" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sfgate.com&#x2F;bayarea&#x2F;matier-ross&#x2F;article&#x2F;Academy-o...</a>), with a ton of diesel buses spewing pollution to cart around wanna-be artists from all over the world. Note that these students didn&#x27;t have to show any portfolio to get in, they just needed to come up with the $$$$$ somehow. The owners have a showroom for their classic car collection which isn&#x27;t generally accessible to even the transportation design students (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;thebolditalic.com&#x2F;just-how-much-is-academy-of-art-s-vintage-car-collection-worth-the-bold-italic-san-francisco-32cc8bfa70ac" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;thebolditalic.com&#x2F;just-how-much-is-academy-of-art-s-...</a>).
techpop10将近 6 年前
What an idiotic story for the NYT.<p>OK, so you have a really awful Masters program for art at a for-profit school. So that damns all masters programs?<p>The problem isn&#x27;t the school or the loan program... it&#x27;s that someone would be so ignorant to think there is any sort of return on that kind of investment in education. It&#x27;s not like the school is lying (that&#x27;s not the allegation at least). There has got to be some level of personal accountability here. I&#x27;m assuming people incurring the debt at this school are adults with an undergraduate degree and I&#x27;m assuming if you&#x27;ve made it that far in life, you probably understand debt, the job market and how you might repay that debt.<p>Normally I&#x27;d say a Masters in Journalism is a waste of money but clearly this author might have benefited from learning some critical thinking.
heroHACK17将近 6 年前
One thing I wish the article touched on: Why aren&#x27;t we asking ourselves how current tuition rates got so high in the first place? If the federal government allows public universities to get away with creating administrative roles like &#x27;Director of Picking Blue or Yellow Gatorade for the Football Team&#x27;, that demands close to six-figure salaries, there&#x27;s no wonder students have to incur debt to go to school. They aren&#x27;t paying for their degree, they are paying the salaries of ballooning administrative chaff.
Stay_frostJebel将近 6 年前
Let&#x27;s face it, most humans do not want to think about financial reality, look at Greece, look at a substantial number of the debtors owing that 1.5 Trillion in loans for &#x27;education&#x27;. It&#x27;s one thing to get a meaningful degree, and something entirely different to get a MFA at a school that didn&#x27;t even review an application portfolio. We try to have some standards for mortgage borrowing, wouldn&#x27;t it make sense to do the same for education borrowing?
diogenescynic将近 6 年前
This is a big reason I chose a cheap state university for my MBA and have paid for it in cash while taking classes part-time. I absolutely wasn’t willing to take out $165,000 at a 9% I test rate for some of the top tier programs and private schools.
blockchainman将近 6 年前
Excellent article by my hero Thomas Sowell:<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;thelawofentropy.blogspot.com&#x2F;2015&#x2F;03&#x2F;the-scandal-of-college-tuition-by.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;thelawofentropy.blogspot.com&#x2F;2015&#x2F;03&#x2F;the-scandal-of-c...</a>
kurthr将近 6 年前
tldr<p>The Academy of Art (San Francisco) is just another place that figured out how to scam the loan system by labeling itself a Graduate School where the $limits are higher. Yale is substantially lower priced so it&#x27;s not about quality or student degree choice... it&#x27;s about scamming.
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GcVmvNhBsU将近 6 年前
Mentioned in the article is a company called 2U. The Huffington post had an article not too long ago about how online program managers like 2U contribute to the high cost of programs, and how masters programs are specifically targeted because there are not reporting requirements on admissions.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.huffpost.com&#x2F;highline&#x2F;article&#x2F;capitalist-takeover-college&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.huffpost.com&#x2F;highline&#x2F;article&#x2F;capitalist-takeove...</a>