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The Vision for Decentralized Web

106 点作者 brisky将近 6 年前

14 条评论

mStreamTeam将近 6 年前
This a problem I’ve something I’ve been working on my free time. The biggest problem with the decentralized web right now is that setting up a server is a huge pain and your average person lacks the knowledge and resources to do so.<p>I’ve been working on a simple music streaming server called mStream. The goal is to make a server even my mom could setup.<p>I publish binaries for every major OS which means you don’t need to rent a server or buy more hardware. You can just run it on your home computer. mStream is configurable entirely through the GUI, so you do not need to open a terminal to get it running.<p>The hard part is making that server easily accessible on the internet. Setting up SSL and dealing with NATs still requires tech knowledge. I’ve been making some beer money selling hole punching software, but that still requires me to host a server so other people can access their servers.
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asdkhadsj将近 6 年前
I&#x27;ll be interested to see where these distributed trends go. I too have been working on something to solve a problem I face; &quot;information&quot; sharing and storage. Fundamentally I want a public wikipedia focused around small pieces of information <i>(though I&#x27;m still toying&#x2F;dogfooding with the UX)</i>, but more importantly I don&#x27;t think it should be a centralized entity.<p>Oddly though there&#x27;s something I don&#x27;t like about building on top of a blockchain. It feels strangely walled off. A distributed system with all the problems of a closed off startup. I&#x27;m likely being unfair, but I&#x27;m just saying how I perceive them. Despite being interested in this area, including working on it personally, I just have no interest in joining one of these blockchain things. I don&#x27;t honestly understand what I or my hypothetical users are getting out of it.<p>I really like the Scuttlebutt protocol in concept; it feels very.. &quot;email-like&quot;. Something that is a mix of federation and self-hosting. Scuttle or maybe ActivityPub seem to have a good feel for decentralizing. Blockchain <i>(as I&#x27;ve seen so far)</i> however.. eh. Am I being unfair &#x2F; short sighted?
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miki123211将近 6 年前
the problem with decentralization is that, for an average Joe, it&#x27;s just a bunch of loonies wearing tin foil hats who have something to hide, and besides, what has Facebook done to me (average Joe) personally? People, ultimately, don&#x27;t care about privacy that much, not until they see obvious consequences of corps having their data that affect them greatly in their lives. Privacy against employers&#x2F;old school friends&#x2F;fiancees is something they care about, that&#x27;s why Snapchat, Instagram Stories and private groups are replacing the public newsfeed. Decentralization must offer some <i>clear</i> advantages over fb, that an average person might appreciate. Those advantages must offset the UX problems, of which there are plenty, most of them pretty hard to fix. In my opinion, the worst one is the ubiquitous use of smartphones over PCs, as any decentralized stuff on smartphones is a nightmare, mostly due to systems relying on servers for stuff like push and background app refresh. This is particularly important on iOs. Also true decentralization, NOT federation, with checks and balances, possibly with nodes that only connect to other nodes that have signed a sort of license &#x2F; legal agreement, is the only way to ensure it won&#x27;t turn into mail, AKA one big Gmail that doesn&#x27;t care, and the rest which doesn&#x27;t matter.
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a3n将近 6 年前
Chicken and egg: Why would anyone leave Facebook&#x2F;Twitter&#x2F;CorporateTool for this or any other competitor?<p>Also, what&#x27;s to prevent this from being boiled down to another set of Facebook-like&#x2F;Twitter-like&#x2F;CorporateTools, just as the early web was contorted into today&#x27;s interactive TV?
sandov将近 6 年前
I would like to know how many people still use the web in comparison to how many people use the Internet. My guess would be that normal people are moving to using specific mobile apps for everything they need.
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ilaksh将近 6 年前
Personally I think that the most practical decentralization solutions are going to be p2p.<p>And also I think the big challenge we have now is for people to really work together and support some of the ideas out there. There are actually a very large number of projects in this area. Most of them are both fairly useful and also fairly unpopular.<p>I think the key is going to be to get some social momentum behind some of the better solutions.
dadahackernews将近 6 年前
Out of topics I&#x27;m in no way am a tech-savvy or Internet security&#x2F; piracy etc. advocates by any means (although I&#x27;ve been looking into it). Q the article is straightforward to follow and comprehend , that I have not once google up any technical words. I like the writing in this.
marknadal将近 6 年前
A blockchain is just trading one walled garden for another.<p>The true vision of the decentralized web is reduced friction by having no gardens.<p>Sites like notabug.io (p2p Reddit) and d.tube (decentralized YouTube) are doing this, no need to login, no pay wall.<p>You don&#x27;t need a blockchain to decentralize, just stuff like WebTorrent or GUN.
a3n将近 6 年前
Gah!<p>While reading the article I followed links and secondary links, and searched, and I now have 18 resulting tabs open.<p>The last one is this: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Special:Search?search=decentralized%20web&amp;go=Go&amp;ns0=1" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Special:Search?search=decentra...</a><p>and the first link on that search result page is to TBL&#x27;s Solid project, which seems to be Yet Another DWeb effort.<p>Should I think of this, and other Dwebs, as an eventual global replace for FBook et al?<p>Or is&#x2F;will it be more like superpowered personal web pages? And will my aunt have to run her own ... node?
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stevedekorte将近 6 年前
AFAICS, neither Blockstack or dpage.io are &quot;decentralized&quot;. Note the login page. Ask what happens if dpage.io site goes down. This is just a website. The fact that this site uses Blockstack&#x27;s centralized servers doesn&#x27;t make it &quot;decentalized&quot; any more than using AWS would.
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idlewords将近 6 年前
They seem to have forgotten Step 0, create a viable business model that can pay people.
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gfody将近 6 年前
needs more vision. decentralization alone won&#x27;t get us out of this nightmare. even if we design the perfect replacement system, we&#x27;ll never get the mainstream off the old one - not without nuking Moab Utah.
pmlnr将近 6 年前
&gt; In order to implement the vision of decentralization, first we need empower people to easily publish and own their content on the web.<p>Why? If someone wants to publish, they&#x27;ll learn what needs to be learnt. If they are not willing to do so, they don&#x27;t really want to publish, so why empower them? (This is a serious question.)
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akubera将近 6 年前
I think equating &quot;the internet&quot; and &quot;the web&quot; is sloppy; the author does this in the first paragraph and throughout the article.<p>&gt; It [The Internet&#x2F;The Web] took off with hackers running independent servers in their basements.<p>Is that true? Maybe if we&#x27;re talking &quot;the internet&quot;, things like MUD, IRC, Usenet, or BBS servers were run by individuals, but looking at the &quot;List of websites founded before 1995&quot;[1] it seems like there were big players outside of labs&#x2F;universities pretty early on in the history of The Web. I&#x27;m asking a legitimate question here: was www successful (at least in part) due to websites from individuals (let&#x27;s maybe say &quot;students on university networks&quot; rather than &quot;hackers in basements&quot;) over large institutions (like the magazines)?<p>&gt; The informational landscape today shifted from people sharing personal websites to sharing social posts.<p>Again, I question the accuracy. Did more people have personal websites than BBS&#x2F;Usenet&#x2F;Web-Forum accounts?<p>Regarding the dpage.io site this article is promoting:<p>&gt; As you can see, there are no ads, no clutter, only information that was created by the user.<p>This is a problem I think the &quot;distributed web&quot; community has to deal with: What if the user <i>wants</i> to monetize their content, perhaps with ads? Either people are going to do some &quot;pay per view&quot; of articles on your network (which seems to be antithetical to &quot;information for the masses&quot; that I have a feeling most decentralized developers identify with), or they use ads. Want your ads to do better? well don&#x27;t fund the network that has reader anonymity built in.<p>&gt; The domain name system enables any person on earth to have his human-readable address on the web. This system is decentralized by design and is owned by nobody.<p>So they want to fork DNS from ICANN so your identity is always linked to your website?<p>&gt; Dpage.io is not a website builder, and it is not a blogging platform.<p>Design your own website, upload it to us and we&#x27;ll host it for free.<p>Reading the contents of the strange little iPad on <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;dpage.io&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;dpage.io&#x2F;</a> it says:<p>&gt; Your user profile details along with your data are by default stored on a free Blockstack&#x27;s Gaia storage hub. DPAGE doesn&#x27;t store your data on its own servers. You can run your own storage hub on a server of your choice.<p>So it <i>is</i> that kind of distributed server: the one you run yourself.<p>&lt;aside&gt; The phrase &quot;a free Blockstack&#x27;s Gaia storage hub&quot; is strange and feels very corporate, being sure to indicate that it&#x27;s not just any Gaia server, but the one OWNED by Blockstack. Sometimes it&#x27;s the little things that show you how much control the marketing department has. &lt;&#x2F;aside&gt;<p>I&#x27;m not going to comment on their blockchain stuff.<p>I&#x27;m only criticizing because I think people are putting lots of effort into solutions that are misguided: &quot;The people WANT to have their own websites! This is the platform they&#x27;ll want for sure!&quot;. I very well may be missing the point here, but inaccuracies and romanticizing the past lead me to skepticism.<p>XAMPP[2] is still around after 17 years, (last updated 4 days ago), which I remember being super easy to setup your own site, and I have a feeling it&#x27;s even easier now. CMS platforms like Wordpress.com, SquareSpace, etc, do allow you to own your own content, easily use themes&#x2F;plugins, and backup&#x2F;export everything if you want to move (for a price, because they&#x27;re providing a service, which is reasonable).<p>I think the most interesting decentralized platform is dat&#x2F;beakerbrowser, because<p>A) There&#x27;s already a tangible working product (Beaker)<p>B) There&#x27;s no login&#x2F;user-admin: your browser upon startup is a node in the network<p>C) Backwards compatible with http(s), so it&#x27;s not like there&#x27;s a hard fork of the DNS namespace and links no longer work.<p>D) No concept of privacy&#x2F;encryption (that I&#x27;m aware of). You really don&#x27;t <i>own</i> your data, you publish it and the system is designed to allow anyone&#x2F;everyone with the link to copy it, change it, host it, seed it. If you don&#x27;t like that, don&#x27;t use it.<p>Of course you have to seed your site, so again there&#x27;s a chicken and egg problem of hosting your own server (but if it&#x27;s just running the browser until your friend says they&#x27;ve downloaded the site, it&#x27;s easy, right?)<p>I didn&#x27;t mean for this to turn into a rant, but I guess it did.<p>I wish dpage&#x2F;decentus&#x2F;blockstack&#x2F;gaia good luck because I think distributed webs do have a future and every player can bring something to the table, but I hope their message&#x2F;intentions become a little more focused.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;List_of_websites_founded_before_1995" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;List_of_websites_founded_befor...</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.apachefriends.org&#x2F;index.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.apachefriends.org&#x2F;index.html</a>