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How I tried to compete with YouTube and Google with Livevideo.com

211 点作者 mysticlabs将近 6 年前

37 条评论

privateSFacct将近 6 年前
This article should say - you can&#x27;t compete with google using google.<p>The &quot;final blow&quot; was adsense being cutoff. Their revenue model to compete with google was ... adsense. OK.<p>Their traffic model was google search. Ok.<p>Between the lines it sounds like some aggressive SEO, and maybe the network click bounce thing (you click on one video, and then it clicks through to another site etc). Be curious what their content moderation story was.<p>Seriously, if you are building a google competitor, you probably need to use something other than adsense. And a reminder, adsense is a key revenue generation value add.<p>The paying of creators definitely anti-competitive. I do think there will be a youtube alternative (small scale) eventually.<p>The problem is a lot of these &quot;competitors&quot; get filled with absolutely trash &#x2F; hateful content right away because the first people to use them are the rejects from youtube and the moderation teams are so glad to have someone show up they don&#x27;t moderate heavily enough. Checkout some of the reddit competitors, total disgusting trash.
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yongjik将近 6 年前
&gt; At one point, I believe it was over 74 million and after a Google search change, that number went down to less than 12 million overnight, so all the backlinks, all the websites that were linking to my site, that boosted my rank, that gave my site a good search cloud. This was all organic. I did not use tricks or anything deceptive. This was all organic traffic. These were all organic backlinks and all of a sudden Google just decided I’m turning it off and they did. So guess what happened? My search traffic completely plummeted.<p>&gt; I would get called on a regular basis from Google ad execs begging me to put Google ads on my website.<p>&gt; Like you basically have to give them their cut, otherwise they’re not gonna let you play and they’re going to screw with your search traffic.<p>Yeah, no, it doesn&#x27;t work like that. Google search ranking is not perfect, but they have taken search&#x2F;ad separation very, very, very seriously. You can&#x27;t even ask questions like &quot;The google ad customer I&#x27;m talking to disappeared from search results, did you guys do anything overnight?&quot; It&#x27;s a big no-no.<p>It sounds more like a sadly misinformed rant. 90% of startups fail - failure is a natural result. You don&#x27;t need to bring up a Google conspiracy to explain it.
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maxk42将近 6 年前
Without revealing details -- I worked for this company at this time. I was privy to certain financial details.<p>Google did not destroy them. A combination of poor business decisions and possibly corruption did. I watched these decisions unfold in person and I won&#x27;t provide certain details because I don&#x27;t want to say anything that might be considered libelous, but this guy is straight-up throwing a pity party for himself. It has nothing to do with reality.<p>Google was not actually evil back then. Did they offer contracts to content creators? Maybe. No reason Live Universe couldn&#x27;t have done the same.<p>There actually was lots of adult content on the Live Universe network of sites. Just -- everywhere. Content moderation was ineffective because so much of the community was driven by porn: Users wouldn&#x27;t flag adult content because that&#x27;s what they were there for, so massive amounts of it just piled up. Google had every reason to stop doing business with them.<p>This guy straight-up admits there was child porn on the site and they were engaged in shady SEO tactics then bitches that Google delisted them.<p>&quot;I literally [built a YouTube competitor&quot; -- no you didn&#x27;t, man. You were just an employee for someone who did.
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tptacek将近 6 年前
From what I can tell, this is the story of a 2006-2008 Youtube also-ran that was outbid by Google for celebrity content, had copyright and inappropriate content problems, kept an adult content section on their website, and depended on AdSense for their revenue.<p>I don&#x27;t see where the concept of &quot;deplatforming&quot; fits into the narrative provided.<p>You can check their old site out on Archive.org (the pages all seem to have &quot;Family Filter&quot; set, despite the fact that the tag clouds and &quot;Most Popular Videos&quot; callouts seem to have adult content in them).
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nosefrog将近 6 年前
I have a hard time believing that their website was more popular than YouTube. I remember using loads of different video streaming services before YouTube was bought by Google (e.g. Vimeo, Google Videos, etc) and I&#x27;ve never heard of livevideo.<p>Also, Google Videos was Google&#x27;s own YouTube competitor from before they bought YouTube, which arguably <i>was</i> anti-competitive because it was much easier to search for Google Videos from Google than for YouTube videos.<p>The more likely explanation for why their search rank plummited is their shady backlinking between their properties.<p>&gt; The only one that survived was Justin. That eventually became twitch because they picked video games as a category and just eliminated everything else. And YouTube didn’t really go after one market like that. They went after all video on the internet, so Google let them kind of have video games and that was it.<p>Their explanation for why Twitch succeeded doesn&#x27;t hold water. My understanding is that video gaming is currently one of the most popular categories on YouTube today and probably has been since the beginning (e.g. PewDiePie started as a video gaming youtuber). They&#x27;re directly going after Twitch with YouTube Gaming. And Twitch obviously hasn&#x27;t been deplatformed by Google Search.
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mooman219将近 6 年前
&gt; It wasn’t it wasn’t anything nefarious.<p>&gt; you know, adult content and there’s child porn on some of your properties and whatever<p>&gt; [getting] sued by the major, by the major record companies for [hosting lyrics]<p>&gt; Today we get sued by the record companies<p>I&#x27;m not well read on the situation, but it sounds like they had serious moderation problems. It looks like they had adult content on their popular video&#x27;s page occasionally even with a filter enabled. If they were being de-listed from DMCA and legal complaints, that&#x27;s on them. A lot of the regulation and laws in this space give a lot of power to copyright holders, and YouTube likely has agreements that give them some leniency that other companies just can&#x27;t get. I feel like that&#x27;s less of a Tech Giant problem and more of a massive legal barrier to entry problem.
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TACIXAT将近 6 年前
This is interesting. I&#x27;m starting to make a computer security course right now and I&#x27;ve chosen to put it on pornhub. The monetization options are better for creators (I can sell videos!). Obviously, pornhub is going to restrict the audience a bit, so I&#x27;ve been toying with the idea of making a video hosting site with solid monetization options and categories of ads beyond porn.<p>I think the biggest thing I don&#x27;t understand is CDNs and delivering the video quickly. If I get some traction in the course, maybe I could launch a site with that content. The monetization options on YouTube are just lacking. You have ads or 5$ &#x2F; mo subscriptions (if you have 100k subscribers).<p>My model is going to be 90% free videos with just the solutions to assignments paid. I&#x27;ll make a small bit on ads, but mostly through 1$ video sales. I was going to offer pdf chapters for each module as well, but since ph only allows image formats and it would be a lot of work to write, I&#x27;ve nixed that idea.
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LearnerHerzog将近 6 年前
I would think the interface&#x2F;front-end would be the most obvious and important way to catch the attention of visitors when competing against any decent-sized online company; I have never heard of livevideo.com, but at very first glance, I am certain it was never a threat on google&#x2F;youtube&#x27;s radar even if you had the best backend system in the world.<p>No offense, but it looks like a 1990s yahoo.com version of youtube, and that introductory how-to video is already way more than enough to lose the attention of the majority viewers. A search engine landing page with more words&#x2F;distractions from the search bar than google.com has (even a fraction of a second longer than what people expect) is already a red flag. Similarly, a streaming site must have extremely uniform, visually stimulating, well defined and relatable content for any hope of keeping visitors interested at a fraction of the rate youtube does. Consider how even the cheapest of porn websites (an industry with tens of millions of competing and ever-improving video streaming websites) know to float uniform rows of well tested, clickable video thumbnails as the first thing one sees, along with any and all instructions&#x2F;options compressed onto a single dropdown button in the top corner— sometimes they don&#x27;t even show the title unless you hover over it.<p>My point is you have to figure out a way to make it even more accessible to new visitors than google is to their non-new visitors; and the amount of front-end text, options, and non-uniform content on livevideo.com is several leagues behind where it would need to start to consider a plan of attack... even against YT or the googs 10 years ago, circa 2009
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mattlondon将近 6 年前
&gt; I should be a multimillionaire ... we should have been what ... a major competitor of YouTube and we should be a multibillion dollar Unicorn Tech Company. And the only reason we’re not is because of anti competitive behavior from Google<p>Hmm ok. Are you <i>sure</i> that was the only reason?<p>All those organic links from those 74 million of websites do not disappear even if you do disappear from the search results.<p>The mention that google executives contacted them to discuss the $3,000 a month he could of made if he ran google ads - that is genuinely peanuts. This makes me think that was a really small operation that didn&#x27;t have a hope in hell in going big and competing with vimeo or dailymotion, let alone google. For comparison I was running an AdSense site around the same time and was easily clearing £800-1000 (approx $1500 I guess) a month with only about 150,000-200,000 visits&#x2F;month (CPMs were higher in those days - I get about the same traffic now but only about £150-300 a month now)<p>If you these google &quot;executives&quot; (p.s. these wont have been &quot;executives&quot; wasting their time on a tiny publisher like this, you&#x27;d be lucky to even get a call from an actual google employee at that size - any tiny publisher deals like this would be farmed out to third party &quot;partner&quot; companies... the real <i>actual</i> executives would be talking to the New York Timess&#x2F;Conde nasts&#x2F;ESPNs of the world where the serious money is worth their time) are suggesting you could get up to $3,000 a month then sorry you were never destined for the big time.<p>Sounds like those 74 million (74,000,000 sites linking to you - that is <i>loads</i>) sites sending traffic your way were actually only sending in a trickle of users otherwise you&#x27;d be able to sell a lot of advertising. Even if each site only sent a single measly user per month, 74,000,000 visitors a month is a chunky visitor base and would easily net you more than $3,000 - even with a CPM of 25c (&quot;good&quot; publishers can expect rates well in excess of this - easily $1 and perhaps $3,4 or even 5 for really top-tier stuff) you&#x27;d be looking at about $18,500 a month. You&#x27;d easily be able to do direct deals with advertisers and get better CPMs at that sort of level.<p>Start ups fail all the time. It is hard and it is sad but I don&#x27;t like it when people don&#x27;t accept responsibility for their own failures though. This attitude of &quot;it was everyone&#x27;s fault apart from mine!&quot; annoys me a lot
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cryptica将近 6 年前
&gt;&gt; You know, I should be a multimillionaire right now like we should have been what YouTube is today or at least a major competitor of YouTube and we should be a multibillion dollar Unicorn Tech Company.<p>I find this statement extremely arrogant. It incorrectly assumes that the value and quality of a product is correlated with the financial success of the product. It hasn&#x27;t been the case for decades. To everyone outside of the elite &#x27;I used to go to MIT and was an early employee of MySpace&#x27; crowd, this was always the case and it&#x27;s not news at all.<p>When I build a product, I assume that there is a 90% to 99% probability that it&#x27;s going to fail and I know exactly why it&#x27;s going to fail and it will have nothing to do with product quality or strategy. I just assume that I&#x27;ll have to build many exceptional products to even get a shot at making a living out of one of them. I expect success to be completely random and inexplicable.<p>There are many superior products and technologies around but nobody talks about them and they are not being built upon. Everyone only talks about the mediocre tech that comes out of Google, Facebook, Amazon, or the elite Silicon Valley VC startup funnel.<p>I enjoy reading these kinds of articles about elites getting a dose of the highly centralized monopolistic reality that they and their friends helped to create (e.g. especially those about Foursquare founders whining about Google over and over) - They&#x27;re getting a taste of their own poison IMO. And yes, if you used to go to MIT, Stanford or Harvard or were on the founding team of MySpace, you are part of the elite; you have no excuse to complain, you are in the &#x27;in crowd&#x27;; you could just have called the right people to make your problems go away; you failed to do that. Most people don&#x27;t even have the option to socially network their problems away.<p>But by all means keep whining; at least when elites whine, maybe other elites and politicians are more likely to listen.
on_and_off将近 6 年前
Is there a non ranty description of what happened ?<p>I read the first couple of paragraphs and between the rantings how he should be a multimillionaire and how Google will destroy all of his projects, I gave up.<p>It is obviously a very emotional subject for Trent, but that&#x27;s just not the best way to present what happened to a third party.
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ryanobjc将近 6 年前
The words &quot;I should be a millionaire&quot; sure appears a lot. The subject suggests there&#x27;s a different title, but it really seems like the real subject is how this person isn&#x27;t a millionaire.
billpg将近 6 年前
I had a LiveVideo account. I had made a (terrible) music video made from clips of my driving around and sped up. I put it on my YouTube, but they ended up over-compressing the video so it was all blurry. (Fast-moving clips don&#x27;t compress very well.)<p>At the time, some fairly medium-to-high prominence YouTubers (back when Peter Oakley&#x2F;Geriatric1927 was the most popular channel) had moved to LiveVideo so I tried uploading my video there. They didn&#x27;t re-compress it all and it was still high quality.<p>Time passed, and YouTube changed their rules to not compress so much. I re-uploaded my video (having to make a small change to avoid the hash collision) and it stayed up.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=hg2gjrUFx9c" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=hg2gjrUFx9c</a>
notyourday将近 6 年前
The product had no USP. And it was a suckier product. That&#x27;s it.<p>It is not possible to compete with Google using Google-like business model. It is already being used by Google and Google is very good at it.<p>Who manages to compete with Google using a slightly different business model? Facebook. Why? Different USP. Different product.<p>Who else? Amazon. Why? Different USP, different product.<p>Who else? Pornhub. Why? Different USP, different product.<p>List goes on.
sjg007将近 6 年前
I mean Twitch succeeded so that&#x27;s a counterpoint. Vimeo is still going.. If I were to start a video company today, I&#x27;d go mobile first.
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zackmorris将近 6 年前
I wonder if a standard library or service could be written that detects search engine manipulation, in order to provide a mathematical confidence that it occurred of some kind.<p>So for example, you make metube.com and it shows up on all the search engines. Off the top of my head, maybe it watches the rank over time, kind of like a stock ticker. If Google detects metube.com and buries your listing, but the listing stays the same on more egalitarian search engines like duckduckgo.com, that would show as a divergence in the historical rankings.<p>So you could get answers like &quot;there&#x27;s a 77% likelihood that Google buried your link&quot; or &quot;Google&#x27;s result diverges 23% from other search engines&quot; or something like that.<p>Then an overall measure of the top million sites or whatever could be used to generate an overall fairness&#x2F;bias rating.<p>If it showed enough manipulation over a long enough time, maybe that would be grounds to regulate or break up the largest search engines. Or maybe the law wouldn&#x27;t be necessary, because a browser plugin could say &quot;there&#x27;s a 95% chance that this search result has not been manipulated&quot; or even request results with a high degree of manipulation as a way of finding the canonical truth.<p>Hmmm that gives me an idea for a search engine...
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jaimex2将近 6 年前
My thoughts on this:<p>Did Livevideo offer anything new or different to what Youtube already had? Was it better than Youtube in any way?<p>We shouldn&#x27;t forget Google couldn&#x27;t compete with Youtube either. Google had to buy Youtube because Googlevideo was not as good.<p>Twitch found a way to compete just fine.
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idonotknowwhy将近 6 年前
57 matches for &quot;You know&quot; in that transcript. I got about half way through but can&#x27;t finish this, it&#x27;s so annoying!
dangerboysteve将近 6 年前
And he posted his video to YouTube. The irony.
aexol将近 6 年前
Hi, I was really screwed by Tech Giant Companies many times in my life for a big money. But now, here I am reborn to bring justice. I reported 1 case to the European Commission and cases like mine led to a new law which was introduced last month:<p>&quot;Get up, stand up, don&#x27;t give up the fight!&quot;<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;eur-lex.europa.eu&#x2F;legal-content&#x2F;EN&#x2F;TXT&#x2F;HTML&#x2F;?uri=CELEX:32019R1150&amp;from=EN" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;eur-lex.europa.eu&#x2F;legal-content&#x2F;EN&#x2F;TXT&#x2F;HTML&#x2F;?uri=CEL...</a>
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Havoc将近 6 年前
&gt;Compete with youtube<p>I admire the spirit. It&#x27;s right up there with lets see who we can attack....hmm...US military...yeah they seem about the right size as a worthy opponent.
pcdoodle将近 6 年前
Thanks for posting this! The screenshots of the platform look awesome.
jdtang13将近 6 年前
The article is 90% delusional
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mgamache将近 6 年前
I am not sure if the stories are accurate, but if they are this is exactly the kind of anti-trust activity that Microsoft was prosecuted for (under US law). This is extending market power (monopoly) from one area to another (search and ads to video streaming). I know it looks like some of the startups broke some &#x27;rules&#x27; like porn or pedophilia, but really YouTube breaks the same rules and uses the same (flagging&#x2F;review) technique used in some of the startups. It&#x27;s hard to start anything web related without a good Google index. Google has 93% market share in search [<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;gs.statcounter.com&#x2F;search-engine-market-share" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;gs.statcounter.com&#x2F;search-engine-market-share</a>]
harperlee将近 6 年前
&gt; (...) is just like, I don’t know, like maybe half of the features (...)<p>Some editing would be great to readability.
learnstats2将近 6 年前
&quot;And the only reason we’re not is because of anti competitive behavior from Google.&quot;<p>I closed at this point.<p>I&#x27;m no fan of Google, but if your business fails, I expect there to be some self-reflection.
AndrewWarner将近 6 年前
Is there a link to the audio download somewhere?<p>I can’t see it, but Id like to listen to this instead of reading it
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FabHK将近 6 年前
Is there an article? I just see videos (and a transcript of a video), and when I click on &quot;Read&quot; in the top right corner, lots of other articles appear?
barli将近 6 年前
you didn&#x27;t try to compete against Youtube and Google, you had an early vision of Periscope and House Party. Do you still have access to MySpace guys?
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jackjeff将近 6 年前
Wow... what a ton of BS. I disagree with most of it.<p>- &quot;Google&#x2F;YouTube made an anti-competitive move against LiveVideo&quot;. Ok, on the face of it (if you believe everything Lapinsky says) then it is really bad, as in &quot;illegal&quot; kind of bad. It makes me wonder how Google&#x2F;Youtube avoided being sued. I whole heartily condemn YouTube&#x2F;Google <i>IF</i> they did this. It sounds plausible btw, since they have done jerk things to Yelp or flight search engines, etc...<p>- &quot;There is child porn on YouTube&quot;. Really? I don&#x27;t believe it. They do a very good job with regular porn. I have never seen a pair of boobs on YouTube over the years. I don&#x27;t know how they do it, but it seems to me that moderation of &quot;nakedness&quot; probably using AI works pretty damn well. I have never seen an article about porn issues on YouTube.<p>- &quot;Google is no longer a neutral digital intermediate because they promote fairness&quot;. Yes. They do. And if they were not doing it, governments around the world would force them to do it. Also their advertisers do not want to be associated with the likes of Alex Jones and are putting pressure on YouTube to sort the issue. This is the sad reality, but Google, Facebook and Twitter are forced to moved from a &quot;neutral&quot; digital platform to something more akin to a &quot;publisher&quot;. People on the board of Google are no more elected that the directors of publication of the largest newspapers. And if you think that shows an anti-conservatice bias, look at who is President of the US, who is going to be Prime Minister in the UK, etc... I don&#x27;t think this is going to be easy but Google (and social media) to find a right balance where most people are able to publish, but the most fringe&#x2F;toxic members of the community deserved to be demonetized. Will Google abuse its powers of f&#x2F;&#x2F;k up from time to time? Sure they will. But I agree with the overall trend. And again, they do not have a choice.<p>- &quot;Google changed its search engine to promote sites with responsive designs&quot;. I absolutely agree with the change. Most people use mobile devices. You waited until 2013 to realize you <i>had</i> to do that? A website that is not responsive today and back in 2013 probably sucked anyway, and it is &quot;right&quot; for Google to demote them. There is nothing anti-competitive about that. Btw, I can predict the future too. For instance, at some point Google will promote sites that support HTTP&#x2F;2 and not just HTTP&#x2F;1.1, so maybe you think of doing that on your next &quot;Wordpress business&quot;.<p>- &quot;Google wanted ads on my website&quot;. Just say &quot;no&quot;. And I don&#x27;t believe in the logical fallacy that _because_ you refused that is why the website was delisted. Seriously dude, your website was <i>way to small</i> for Google to care that much.<p>- The business was overly dependent on Google search results. Google tweak its algorithm from time to time. Most of the time Google has genuine reasons for the changes. Sometimes they want to demote a &quot;large&quot; competitor in an anti-competitive move (which btw, I think it&#x27;s going to get harder and harder for Google to get away with that). But your tiny site that depends on search results... it&#x27;s just an unintended consequence. Google does <i>not</i> care about you. And if you get most of your sales from Google, your business model is highly volatile and can disappear overnight. I don&#x27;t want Google to stop making tweaks to improve the quality of results and destroy dark SEO hacks, just because occasionally they happen to accidentally destroys someones under-diversified business model. I am sure it sucks to be on the receiving end of this, but imagine a world where Google <i>never</i> tweaked the algorithm. Search results would be utterly worthless today.
otakucode将近 6 年前
I don&#x27;t think that even if Google avoided the tactics they used, you still could not compete with YouTube. Alphabet has as one of its goals cultural &quot;guidance&quot;. This is openly advocated by Eric Schmidt in his book &#x27;A New Digital Age.&#x27; They ran YouTube at a gigantic ongoing loss for over a decade solely to suppress competition and establish themselves as the only viable video platform. If you can build a billion-dollar infrastructure, and after those bills are paid you can lose hundreds of millions of dollars a year running it, than and only then can you compete with YouTube and face these tactics in addition to all of the legal and political pressure Google can produce. They haven&#x27;t even needed to break out political pressure (and by that I mean getting government to establish regulations and legislation that YouTube is omitted from by being grandfathered in, not any kind of &#x27;conservative&#x2F;liberal bias&#x27; sort of thing) yet. And so long as Alphabet is profitable, we may never see those tactics as they&#x27;re simply not needed.<p>YouTube is a key factor in Alphabet exercising the cultural &#x27;guidance&#x27; that Eric Schmidt argues is not only Googles responsibility but moral obligation. For people who agree with Schmidt and disagree with the position that the public should be permitted to decide their own future, good or bad, it will be impossible to gain their support. Make no mistake, that viewpoint is the one that has supported every monarchy, dictatorship, theocracy, and non-democratic social structure throughout history. Political scientists call is Conservatism with a capital C, whereas the view that the public should play a role in their own governance and decide their own fate, for good or ill, is the alternative that drove the American Revolution, French Revolution, and countless blood-soaked revolutions across the globe. It won every single one of those wars. But it, too, lost to Google.<p>Just consider, if 70+% of the public today believed that interracial marriage was offensive and disgusting, which was true when interracial marriage was legalized by the Supreme Court in the 1960s, Google would deplatform anyone who agreed with the legalization of interracial marriage in order to defend that status quo. They do not seek to provide an open, global platform that can host or play a part in public debate about serious issues. They seek to exercise cultural guidance as Eric Schmidt sees fit. It has been the public which has reliably improved over time and progressed while still containing contingents of nuts and extremists. And it has progressed not despite that, but because of it. No closed and centrally managed society in history has become more progressive except through dreadfully bloody revolutions that destroyed its management.
baalimago将近 6 年前
Yes, you know, I know.<p>Maybe do some filtering on the autotranscripts? Interesting read otherwise.
fabioyy将近 6 年前
Google is Tier 1, they don&#x27;t pay bandwidth. no one can compete with them
quocble将近 6 年前
Im glad to see more of this. You can learn a lot more from failures which arent discussed well online.
alexanderklein将近 6 年前
Very good article. Yes, Google is indeed a very strong competitor for startups.
trilila将近 6 年前
The only company competing successfully with google is facebook, and they are both giant ad factories that will violate your privacy without batting an eye. Wondering if there is a ceiling in how much revenue an ad company can make using reasonable methods to generate revenue, and there just is no other way but by pushing crap to our browsers.<p>So to compete and beat facebook and google one has to be good at the ad game not just the content game.<p>Whoever thought google will allow a competitor to use google’s own platform to grow and threaten their own video ad stream should probs not be in a company’s board for a while.
ilostit12将近 6 年前
Wow! Google needs to be broken up.