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From South Korea to Malaysia, ‘smart cities’ turn to ghost towns

140 点作者 HillaryBriss将近 6 年前

13 条评论

pcr910303将近 6 年前
South Korean here. (I live in Seoul, Kangnam.) This article contains so much mis-information about Songdo, that I would like to point out.<p>&gt; where lamp posts are always watching you<p>CCTVs are very, very common in South Korea. This isn&#x27;t something special to Songdo, and CCTVs are the number-one reason that South Korea has the 5th highest rate of people that think walking around in the dark is safe. Nobody thinks that CCTVs are surveillance; people believe the government in general.<p>&gt; small touch screen display on his kitchen wall that allows him to keep track of his and his wife’s consumption of electricity, water and gas and, most important, compare it against the average statistics for the building.<p>This is super-common in Seoul, it&#x27;s not something special in Songdo or such.<p>&gt; It claims to have the highest concentration of green Leed-certified buildings in the world, yet it is still entirely car-based, with not even a train line to the nearby airport.<p>One thing to keep in mind is that South Korea generally (especially Seoul) is a very public-transport friendly, with a pretty-high 40% percentage of all transport (user&#x27;s own car takes 39% of all transport).<p>The time when Songdo was planned, the high public-transport percentage was considered a &#x27;bad-thing&#x27;. People tried to model the &#x27;America Way&#x27;, and that&#x27;s why Songdo was constructed with an emphasis on car-based transport. This plan was reverted years ago, and Songdo is currently constructing four subway routes.<p>&gt; From South Korea to Malaysia, ‘smart cities’ turn to ghost towns<p>Songdo is not a ghost town, that is just plain wrong. It was one of the most successful cities in South Korea. It&#x27;s population is rapidly increasing every year, with a competitive rate of 4855:1 to move in Songdo. Also, unlike the article&#x27;s explanation, a big fraction of Songdo population comes from provinces other than Seoul (which is something similar to rural areas in the US).<p>Overall, this article is overly emphasizing things that are nothing to Koreans but can be seen negatively to Americans; the explanation about Songdo are plain-wrong; and I just can&#x27;t see what this article is trying to say.
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jrd259将近 6 年前
Anyone who had read Jane Jacob&#x27;s Death and Life of Great American Cities would predict what happens when you build isolated high rises, no matter how smart, with no actual connection to the urban life.<p>The article also speaks of these cities as not intended for the rural poor migrating to the city. Edward Glaeser&#x27;s Triumph of the City examines (among other things) why the rural poor flock to cities: no matter how dismal the slum, it&#x27;s still better than the farm, and it&#x27;s at least possible for some entrepreneurs to get started. Smart cities that exclude the poor and working class can&#x27;t thrive.<p>Glaeser shows that cities are engines of economic growth, but this requires clean water and sanitary living for <i>everyone</i>, and only state intervention can provide that. Instead of building high tech playgrounds, cities should literally clean up their act. Getting clean water is not glamourous, and probably not lucrative to individual actors, but in the end it pays off.
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JDiculous将近 6 年前
This article is trying really hard to push this dystopian narrative, using rhetoric like &quot;big brother&quot;. But I&#x27;ve spent the last 3 months living in &quot;planned cities&quot; near Seoul (Ilsan and Gwanggyo) and have nothing but positive things to say.<p>I&#x27;m 30 minutes to Seoul by public transport, literally don&#x27;t need a car because everything is walkable, and there are many things to do (way more than the Washington DC suburb I grew up in). I didn&#x27;t even know Ilsan was a planned city until I was told so.<p>And isn&#x27;t every city &quot;planned&quot; in some sense via zoning laws and such? Is Stuyvesant Town in Manhattan not a &quot;planned&quot; community?<p>I&#x27;ve never seen an apartment with a daily loudspeaker announcement that can&#x27;t be turned off, that&#x27;s ridiculous and in no way a norm in South Korea.<p>I much prefer the planned cities I&#x27;ve lived in here in Korea to the drab lifeless suburbs in America where you can&#x27;t do anything without a car and the commercial areas are just giant chain stores&#x2F;restaurants.
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sho_hn将近 6 年前
I live in South Korea and write drone ground control software as a hobby. Songdo is the city I go to on the weekends to test my latest changes because it&#x27;s outside the Seoul no-fly zone and has a largely deserted central park I can fly in. I wouldn&#x27;t say it otherwise feels anything like a ghost town, though - just less dense and more spacious than Seoul. With kids, it&#x27;d be attractive.<p>Edit: Here&#x27;s some old alpha screenshots of my app flying over Songdo and me: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;m.imgur.com&#x2F;a&#x2F;dK21yca" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;m.imgur.com&#x2F;a&#x2F;dK21yca</a>
em-bee将近 6 年前
none of the problems that i can see have anything to do with the cities being smart, but rather with bad planning, maybe overplanning, and other issues.<p>so the question is, how to build a smart city the right way?<p>for starters, i don&#x27;t think starting from scratch is a good idea, as that leads to overplanning and making predictions that don&#x27;t pan out. better to pick an existing quarter and modernize that.<p>we have been modernizing cities for centuries, and we&#x27;ll obviously continue to do so, so any future smart cities (if they are created) will all be based on existing cities, because it&#x27;s not like we can just leave all our current cities behind and build new ones right next to them.<p>building a smart city from scratch is like a city-planners dream: <i>let&#x27;s build the ultimate city, and make it smart too</i>.<p>what we really should be doing is to ask: how can we use <i>smart city technology</i> to enrich our peoples lives where they are now?
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peterburkimsher将近 6 年前
What made Songdo and Forest City fail, but Shenzhen succeed? I think it&#x27;s because Shenzhen put business first, and grew iteratively as people arrived. People want to move where the jobs are, not just to a fancy new IoT city.
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pcurve将近 6 年前
Video of Songdo mentioned in the article. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=4TNGowdxUOQ" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=4TNGowdxUOQ</a><p>penthouse pictures of one of these high rises <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=iRrfHJmFaTc" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=iRrfHJmFaTc</a>
molteanu将近 6 年前
This is an identical article taken from The Guardian.<p>The Guardian piece was also submitted a few days ago around here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=20409450" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=20409450</a>
romanovcode将近 6 年前
&gt; Every morning, at 8.30am, an announcement is piped though a speaker in the ceiling of Kim Jong-won’s flat, barking the daily bulletin in a high-pitched voice. The disembodied broadcaster details new parking measures, issues with the pneumatic waste disposal chute and various building maintenance jobs to be carried out that day. “There’s no way of turning it off,” sighs Kim’s wife.<p>Jesus, this is straight from 1984. Why would someone agree to live in place like that
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boyadjian将近 6 年前
&quot;But many are prohibitively expensive and catalysts for land dispossession and social inequality&quot; : Is it really a problem ? It is simply like that.
dmh2000将近 6 年前
I didn&#x27;t see much evidence in the article about &#x27;ghost towns&#x27;. it may be true but the article didn&#x27;t back it up.
Jataman606将近 6 年前
You cant even read text on this website without js enabled, wth is wrong with people
raheemm将近 6 年前
This article reads almost like a hatchet job.