Ask HN: When did self-promotion become important?

Sounds like the people you're talking about are jealous, and covering it up with insults.<p>Self-promotion has always been important. The degree of importance depends on your goals.<p>If you want fame, you have to self-promote. If you want high rates and the choicest jobs, you have to self-promote. If you want to work on interesting problems and make a living doing it, you have to self-promote.<p>If you just want to hack on stuff that turns you on in your spare time, then self-promotion is optional. But who doesn't like a _little_ recognition? I don't think the open source community would exist without that drive.<p>I think self-promotion should be grounded in merit. I would hope the people I respect that might dismissed as "just really good at self promotion" are actually good at what they do.<p>Sorry for the rambly answer.

A lot of people naturally want to promote themselves, whether or not it does any good. You can see this behavior at work when people are excited to be on TV even if it's a 5 second sound bite about a car wreck, or 15 years ago when everyone* posted endless streams of pictures of their cats on their home pages (see facebook).<p>In some cases people may look down on this behavior (see your friends), this may lead those who participate in it to justify the behavior as necessary (see actors).<p>In other cases it may be quite necessary for their source of income (see motivational speakers, underemployed consultants).<p>I suppose you'd have to decide for yourself which category these folks might belong in.<p>Seeing an uptick there might be the result of the heat currently in the sector. The behavior certainly did seem to peak in 99/00 with the last market bubble. Anecdotally, self promoters often seem to flock to over heated sectors - people that aren't johnny come latelies may just be getting caught up by seeing others do it.

I think your depiction of the ruby community is accurate. We definitely like to promote what we're doing, be it on our blogs, at conferences, on twitter, at meetups, etc.<p>Last year at LaRubyConf, Sarah Allen called the ruby community "the programming community for extroverts". I couldn't agree more.<p>I think your analysis of the community is more a result of that than any level of pomposity, vainness, or even simple hand-waving. Sure, those things will always occur to some extent. But I think it's really a result of positive attributes, and maybe a dash of success ;)<p>I also think people's attitudes towards engineers have changed markedly in more recent years. Gone are the days of nerdy dudes updating bank software in "Office Space". Who is everyone's favorite CEO these days? Steve Jobs. What was one of the biggest blockbuster hits of the year? A movie about a nerdy dude at Harvard building a web app (I know, that's not what the movie is <i>really</i> about). In other words, it's fucking cool to be an engineer these days, <i>especially</i> a software engineer.<p>I think ruby programmers, being extroverts (generally), have embraced this cultural shift, and dare I say capitalized on it.<p>I can't deny that people in the ruby community have ample opportunity to become "rockstars" in the community simply by way of self-promotion, but there are just as many of those who are popular for their prolific open source contributions, which is by no means hurt by their self-promotion prowess.<p>Good observation bj, and great conversation starter.

Don't hang out with people who put others down. Whether they are right or wrong is immaterial. Most of them just want to feel superior and their negativity can do you absolutely no good. If you do hang out with them, you'll become one of them before you know it.

I thought self promotion has always been important. If no one knows who you are then no one will promote you regardless of your merit. Most any company will promote themselves through self promotion before anyone notices them.

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commentarii_de_Bello_Gallico" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commentarii_de_Bello_Gallico</a>

Around the time humans invented agriculture.

I do think the Ruby community takes it to the next level. I've commented several times about how I find the Ruby community to be the most irritating.<p>Is it unique to the Ruby community? Certainly not, but if you find yourself around a better class of people, you may notice that they're not Ruby developers ;-)

"I used to believe that most programming and open source communities were meritocracies ..."<p>People cannot judge you on your merits unless they know you exist and what you've done. Stand up and be counted.<p>Now, there is the case that some people assign special value to other people by virtue of their being known, and don't bother to find out <i>why</i> someone is known. TV is filled with people who are famous for being famous. Maybe some tech circles are like that, too.<p>I've had people look to hire me who mention that they were Googling for something or other and my name kept coming up, so they figured I was the person to contact. Far be it from me to to discourage such people :).<p>But I also know that the bottom line is you have to live up to these people's expectations.

Nice question, have an upvote. ;)