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Why Google Poses a Serious Threat to Democracy, and How to End That Threat [pdf]

115 点作者 sprucely将近 6 年前

24 条评论

slg将近 6 年前
Dr. Robert Epstein might very well have a valid complaint, but it seems like he has had an ax to grind with Google going back years. His site was hacked in 2012 and Google put up a warning as a result and he was not happy about it [1]. Maybe coincidentally, later that year Epstein started publicly criticizing Google and calling for them to be regulated [2]. He also started sounding the alarm about election interference years before the 2016 election [3]. If Dr Epstein is leading a conversation about Google&#x27;s biases, I think it is only fair to also discuss whether Dr Epstein&#x27;s himself is biased against Google.<p>[1] - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bits.blogs.nytimes.com&#x2F;2012&#x2F;01&#x2F;06&#x2F;readers-and-experts-weigh-in-on-a-site-owner-vs-google&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bits.blogs.nytimes.com&#x2F;2012&#x2F;01&#x2F;06&#x2F;readers-and-expert...</a><p>[2] - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.huffpost.com&#x2F;entry&#x2F;google-privacy_b_1962827" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.huffpost.com&#x2F;entry&#x2F;google-privacy_b_1962827</a><p>[3] - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;technology&#x2F;2014&#x2F;may&#x2F;15&#x2F;google-did-not-rig-indian-elections" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;technology&#x2F;2014&#x2F;may&#x2F;15&#x2F;google-di...</a>
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malcolmhere将近 6 年前
This is such garbage. If you clickthrough on this guy&#x27;s &quot;research&quot;, you&#x27;ll find that he objects to Google&#x27;s &quot;Go Vote Today&quot; reminder is unfair politically because:<p>- It increases voter turnout across the board (which favors Democrats marginally) - Google users tend to be younger (and hence more left-leaning)<p>Google has many questionable practices, but simply reminding people when it is an election day is not one of them
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akersten将近 6 年前
There is a serious and concerted effort to disparage the large tech companies lately on this platform and others. It isn&#x27;t about anti-trust, or any benefit to the consumer either, although it may be dressed up that way. It&#x27;s about forcing private companies to be platforms for radical views, and to self-censor and be disallowed from having their own political opinions and operating policies.<p>The government should be hands-off here. Look only to the fact that they&#x27;re not investigating Microsoft, Walmart, or the ISPs, to realize that this is targeted political harassment.
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mmcconnell1618将近 6 年前
&quot;On January 31, 2009, Google blocked access to virtually the entire internet for 40 minutes.&quot; - Please explain how Google created a denial of service attack on the entire internet for 40 minutes. Clearly, Dr. Epstein believes that the only way to access the internet is through a search engine.
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rdtsc将近 6 年前
&gt; On Election Day in 2018, the “Go Vote” reminder Google displayed on its home page gave one political party between 800,000 and 4.6 million more votes than it gave the other party<p>Interesting. I assumed they displayed those for everyone. Did any whistleblowers come up saying how they decided who to show that and who to not show that message? Because if they only picked out voters they assumed would vote Democrat that would be troubling. Though, I guess it is tempting to say, they are using their resources however they see fit, but even then I&#x27;d at least hope they are transparent and clear were they stand, and not try to pretend to be unbiased.<p>&gt; A growing body of evidence suggests that Google employees deliberately engineer ephemeral experiences to change people’s thinking.<p>Does anyone from Google here even knows about or heard the phrase &quot;ephemeral experiences&quot;? Search suggestions I guess could change people&#x27;s opinions, but I am not sure about the deliberate manipulation part, and that it&#x27;s concerted internal effort.
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wyck将近 6 年前
Google search has gone down the proverbial shithole in the last 2 years, and has been struggling long before that. Even for non political searches it returns horrible results. It&#x27;s a threat in the short-term, and then it will be replaced since the algorithm is falling apart.
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6gvONxR4sf7o将近 6 年前
&gt;A worldwide network of passive monitoring systems must be built to protect humanity and democracy from manipulations by today’s Google and the Googles of tomorrow.<p>Yeah no thanks.
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drtillberg将近 6 年前
If even a fraction of the allegations in the PDF are true, wouldn&#x27;t Google be exposed to a campaign finance compliance issue?<p>Or, to put it in another way, since these corporations are just giant buckets of money sloshing around, wouldn&#x27;t it be true that pretty much any political activism they incorporate into their business operations would have the potential to be considered an election-influencing political contribution?
4ntonius8lock将近 6 年前
It seems to me that Epstein is far more annoyed that bad things are working against things he cares about, than that bad things are happening.<p>Many people have been very concerned with Google&#x27;s monopolistic power over the economy.<p>Literally the difference in these two auto completes, can mean a make or break most businesses: brand name is... scam brand name is... great<p>Add to that google has been unjustly pushing it&#x27;s own sites to the top and you have blatant market manipulation, even if it doesn&#x27;t conform to the legal definition of this term, it definitively conforms to the spirit of the law.<p>That never bothered Mr Epstein.<p>But as soon as he can give it a political spin, all of a sudden this power and its abuse are an issue.<p>And even then it is so narrow and in a space so rife with bias that it&#x27;s hard to take seriously. I mean, the major networks don&#x27;t even feature 3rd party candidates in the debate. And yet I don&#x27;t hear him crying bias. I&#x27;m pretty sure media bias is way more pervasive and swings more elections than google or Facebook has ever done.<p>The issue at hand should be Google&#x27;s monopoly on search, it&#x27;s blatant bias and the oversize power that gives them. If you pick up on specifics and not address the wider issue, I&#x27;m going to have to wonder why.
nickodell将近 6 年前
&gt;In 2016, biased search results generated by Google’s search algorithm likely impacted undecided voters in a way that gave at least 2.6 million votes to Hillary Clinton.<p>This is the most important claim that he makes, and as far as I can tell, he gives zero backing for it.<p>He has two citations. The first citation is a paper showing that re-ordering search results to show links to articles that favor candidate A will cause readers to favor candidate A. The second citation does not give any explanation for the 2.6 million figure.<p>----<p>Let&#x27;s take a look at the second citation: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theepochtimes.com&#x2F;10-ways-big-tech-can-shift-millions-of-votes-in-the-november-elections-without-anyone-knowing_2671195.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theepochtimes.com&#x2F;10-ways-big-tech-can-shift-mil...</a><p>&gt;I found pro-Clinton bias in all 10 search positions on the first page of Google’s search results. [...] Because, as I noted earlier, Google’s search algorithm is not constrained by equal-time rules, it almost certainly ends up favoring one candidate over another in most political races, and that shifts opinions and votes.<p>This is literally true but realistically meaningless. Suppose that there are two candidates for office, A and B. Days before the election, it is revealed that candidate A fucks dogs. The news publishes many articles about candidate A fucking dogs. Google places those articles highly in search results, and many voters see them.<p>Has Google shown pro-candidate B bias by showing those articles? Obviously not. Unless Epstein can show that a viewpoint-neutral ranking would have produced a different result, what he has is meaningless.
betterunix2将近 6 年前
Full disclosure: I work on cryptography for Google, nothing related to this particular article.<p>These claims are a bit...much. In the 2016 election, which was characterized by media manipulation and fake news stories, Google&#x27;s results, according to his analysis, seemed to skew favorably toward Clinton. How do you even control for all the confounding factors here? Maybe Google is just better at weeding out misinformation than Bing, resulting in fewer negative stories about Clinton (or fewer positive stories about Trump).<p>Then in 2018 Google <i>threatened democracy</i> by telling people to go out and vote, which <i>clearly</i> is an act of voter manipulation by Google in Dr. Epstein&#x27;s view. In that same election, Dr. Epstein claims that Google&#x27;s results were biased in favor of one party; yet in that same election, one party&#x27;s talking points were divorced from reality, so any search algorithm than favors truthfulness would have to favor the other party.
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joshuwa将近 6 年前
Robert Epstein - the self citing author of that testimony - had his website flagged as a security threat by Google a few yeas back and he&#x27;s been on a vendetta ever since.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Robert_Epstein#Criticism_of_Google" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Robert_Epstein#Criticism_of_Go...</a>
bogwog将近 6 年前
I really like his idea for making Google&#x27;s search index a public commons. Google search is by far their most popular product in terms of traffic, it&#x27;s one of the most controversial and easily abused, and it&#x27;s not even their main revenue stream. Google can survive without search, and the internet would be better off if there was more competition.<p>The only issue I see is how would you make sure other smaller companies aren&#x27;t providing biased search results too? His idea for having a monitoring system sounds like a privacy nightmare for users. At least you can regulate the hell out of Google and have actual audits. Doing the same for thousands of search engines isn&#x27;t easy.
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argv_empty将近 6 年前
Epstein&#x27;s argument seems to assume that any information which shifts an undecided person&#x27;s view is biased. Basic chemistry lessons make the claims of homeopaths seem downright silly. Does that mean that teaching chemistry is biased against homeopathy, or is homeopathy just not all that great an idea?<p>Well, perhaps that definition of bias is specific to strictly political topics rather than questions about the observable effects of various actions. Even so, by the standard of shifting views a certain direction, does Google present as much of a threat to democracy as higher education does?
dang将近 6 年前
Recent and related: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=20440079" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=20440079</a>
Adishetu将近 6 年前
There’s no threat to our democracy, if that’s the case then that means it’s a weak mindset and that the only truth, because it’s a dangerous deadly and downright demonic ideology. So abort democracy in order to avoid the sixth birthing of feminism. They both gotta go and get with Islam, just read Quran and Sunnah. What has DeMoCracy actual achieve if not causing confusion and delay???
antpls将近 6 年前
Google doesn&#x27;t pose more threat than any other big recognized brands that people trust.<p>It&#x27;s all about trust. If people trust more Google or Apple than the legacy system, then maybe these brands earned people trust by also doing good things (sometime) ? Of course they have now a great responsability.
projektfu将近 6 年前
What kind of scholar doesn&#x27;t have any references to something he didn&#x27;t write? Surely Epstein&#x27;s not the only scholar in the field of search engine effects.
stretchwithme将近 6 年前
The electoral system in the US has so many other gigantic flaws. It is only wracked by such controversies because it so bad at representing the interests of the voters.
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IOT_Apprentice将近 6 年前
Youtube &quot;recommendations&quot;? Sure. Facebook? Absolutely.
outworlder将近 6 年前
Why is Google in particular an issue and not, say, Facebook?
thoughtstheseus将近 6 年前
Someone call Jaron.
VMG将近 6 年前
what an odd endorsement of Google
tracker1将近 6 年前
Frankly, a lot of this is worrisome. I lean libertarian&#x2F;centrist&#x2F;classic-liberal in terms of my views. Lately I feel that even trying to engage with anyone to the left is an effort in futility. Especially in Pacific-Coast tech companies. Reason doesn&#x27;t seem to matter, only feelings.<p>I was blocked on twitter for nearly a week, while they reviewed my challenge and judged against me, for posting anti-violence messages of all things.<p>I can&#x27;t help but feel if the likes of Google, Twitter and Facebook are censoring otherwise legal and non-violent content in favor of a political ideology, they deserve to lose section 230 protections.
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