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Bernie Sanders unveils $16T 'Green new deal' plan

117 点作者 kaushikt将近 6 年前

14 条评论

achow将近 6 年前
From Reddit, posted by &#x27;AlarmedScholar&#x27;:<p>The most significant goals:<p>- Reaching 100 percent renewable energy for electricity and transportation by no later than 2030 and complete decarbonization by at least 2050<p>- Ending unemployment by creating 20 million jobs<p>- Directly invest an historic $16.3 trillion public investment<p>- A fair transition for workers<p>- Declaring climate change a national emergency<p>- Saving American families money<p>- Supporting small family farms by investing in ecologically regenerative and sustainable agriculture<p>- Justice for frontline communities<p>- Commit to reducing emissions throughout the world<p>- Meeting and exceeding our fair share of global emissions reductions<p>- Making massive investments in research and development<p>- Expanding the climate justice movement<p>- Investing in conservation and public lands to heal our soils, forests, and prairie lands<p>- This plan will pay for itself over 15 years<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;politics&#x2F;comments&#x2F;ctvmwp&#x2F;bernie_sanders_unveils_16_trillion_green_new_deal&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;politics&#x2F;comments&#x2F;ctvmwp&#x2F;bernie_san...</a>
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Hongwei将近 6 年前
&quot;The proposal opposes nuclear energy and carbon capture and storage technology.&quot; Ugh
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partiallypro将近 6 年前
I don&#x27;t understand why politicians always put forth &quot;plans&quot; that would never pass. Why not put forth realistic options that would pass? It&#x27;s not wonder we can&#x27;t tackle anything, much less climate change. Everyone goes so far on the spectrum that they can&#x27;t garner votes for anything. It&#x27;s ridiculous. This pleases the base, it does nothing more. And even at that, I&#x27;m sure the far flungs will say this isn&#x27;t enough. Come to the middle.
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mcorning将近 6 年前
Something along these lines is necessary to save our planet. Cutting off the $650B in fossil fuel subsidies over the course of 15 years pay for a little over half of the plan.<p>If we can hand over trillions of dollars to save big banks, we can hand over what is necessary to save the planet.
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manfredo将近 6 年前
Some quick napkin-paper math as far as how much electricity we could generate if this $16T was spent on nuclear energy:<p>The levelized cost (that is, including overhead costs of plant construction) are still lower than solar. Less than solar and about the same as wind, except that nuclear isn&#x27;t intermittent which eliminates the need for energy storage. At $120 per megawatt hour, this $16 trillion could be used to generate 128000 terawatt hours of electricity [1].<p>Let&#x27;s put this in more concrete examples. The total us electricity generation is ~1 terawatt. The Palo Verde plant generates ~4 gigawatts and cost $12 billion in 2018 dollars [3]. At this cost&#x2F;capacity ratio, $16 trillion could be used to generate just over 5 terawatts. Over 5x the current capacity of the US power generation grid. What&#x27;s even more impressive is that this is a one-off plant design, which is much less cost effective than serial plant production (like what the French did during the 70s and 80s) where a handful of designs are created but dozens or more plants are built using those designs.<p>Granted electricity isn&#x27;t the only form of energy consumption, but it is a huge source of carbon production that can be replaced.<p>1. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.instituteforenergyresearch.org&#x2F;renewable&#x2F;electric-generating-costs-a-primer&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.instituteforenergyresearch.org&#x2F;renewable&#x2F;electri...</a><p>2. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Electricity_sector_of_the_United_States" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Electricity_sector_of_the_Unit...</a><p>3. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Palo_Verde_Nuclear_Generating_Station" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Palo_Verde_Nuclear_Generating_...</a>
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misiti3780将近 6 年前
Question: If he is dropping 650B in FF subsidies, does that mean we can assume the price for gas prices, flights etc will all go up respectively ?
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nodesocket将近 6 年前
I respect and listen to Bernie even though I have very different ideologies and fiscal policy. Recently he went on the Joe Rogan podcast for over an hour; it is a great source of information on his politics: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;m.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=2O-iLk1G_ng" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;m.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=2O-iLk1G_ng</a>
zaroth将近 6 年前
NYT appears to link to a scanned copy of the plan;<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;int.nyt.com&#x2F;data&#x2F;documenthelper&#x2F;1654-bernie-sanders-green-new-deal&#x2F;761873c26ec4075c609b&#x2F;optimized&#x2F;full.pdf#page=1" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;int.nyt.com&#x2F;data&#x2F;documenthelper&#x2F;1654-bernie-sanders-...</a>
abeppu将近 6 年前
The article mentions that the plan doesn&#x27;t include a carbon tax, and that one of Sanders&#x27; advisors says we need &quot;more than just a carbon tax&quot;, and then gives a favorable quote from that advisor. I can understand why a carbon tax might not be _enough_ given the current state of affairs, but is there a good argument against including it in a comprehensive plan other than that people dislike the idea of new taxes?
derg将近 6 年前
Good. This is the kind of total war ramp up to help attempt to save the planet that we desperately needed to do years and decades ago.
api将近 6 年前
I don&#x27;t like this. I like the sentiment but repeat after me: <i>politicians should never ever insert themselves into engineering!</i> The only exception would be politicians who are engineers, and there are not many of these in the US. Bernie Sanders it not an engineer.<p>When they do we tend to get ignorant choices (because 99% of them are not scientists or engineers) and corruption. A great example is our biofuels programs that gave us corn ethanol, which is literally the absolute worst possible biofuel for EROEI. Another example unrelated to energy is the Space Shuttle. NASA would have built a much more affordable and reusable orbiter had Congress not mandated a bunch of extra capabilities that were never used, specific contractor mandates, and other meddling that ruined the design.<p>Just tax fossil fuels and other carbon emitting activities. Do not allow politicians to get involved in picking the alternatives or they&#x27;ll pick the wrong ones or be influenced by lobbyists for the most expensive or politically well connected ones.<p>I also don&#x27;t like the categorical rejection of nuclear. I&#x27;m not strongly for expansion of current-generation nuclear power but I am also not at all opposed to more research on better ways of exploiting fission energy. I&#x27;m also strongly in support of increasing funding for fusion energy given the progress that&#x27;s occurred in areas like compact superconductors and computer modeling. If we can solve fusion we&#x27;d at the very least have a source of base load power for regions with strong base load power demands and that lack large scale renewable resources sufficient to meet that demand.
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bbmario将近 6 年前
&gt; and commits $200 billion to help poor nations cope with climate change.<p>Why?
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sleepysysadmin将近 6 年前
Just gave the leadership to Biden.
greenail将近 6 年前
The worst thing to post or upvote is something that&#x27;s intensely but shallowly interesting: gossip about famous people, funny or cute pictures or videos, partisan political articles, etc. If you let that sort of thing onto a news site, it will push aside the deeply interesting stuff, which tends to be quieter.
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