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What Is a Logo-Like Language?

72 点作者 maxhallinan超过 5 年前

13 条评论

RcouF1uZ4gsC超过 5 年前
&gt;Does this mean that the use of the language is more important than the language itself?<p>The answer is a resounding yes. C became popular because it is the native language of Unix. It was Rails that made Ruby popular. JavaScript is popular because it is implemented by all the browsers. Objective-C became popular because of iOS, and similarly with Swift. Visual Basic was one of the most popular languages for a time because it made Windows GUI programming easier. The ecosystem and use of a language is far more important than the language itself.
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DonHopkins超过 5 年前
Does anybody still have a copy of the file from the MIT-AI Lab PDP-10 called &quot;AI: HUMOR; LOGO TURTLE&quot; or something like that? I haven&#x27;t been able to find a copy myself, but I remember reading it and have confirmed that it existed, and that it was published in SIGART around 1982.<p>It was Leigh Klotz&#x27;s sarcastic response to a Defense Department questionnaire to Terrapin about how their technology could be used to kill people.<p>He proposed deploying a swarm of thousands of LOGO turtles to crawl around the battlefield in mesmerizing geometric patterns, and stab the enemy with a quick succession of PENUP and PENDOWN commands (proving once again that the pen is mightier than the sword).<p>Cybernetic Zoo: A history of cybernetic animals and early robots: 1969 – The Logo Turtle – Seymour Papert et al (Sth African&#x2F;American):<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;cyberneticzoo.com&#x2F;cyberneticanimals&#x2F;1969-the-logo-turtle-seymour-papert-marvin-minsky-et-al-american&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;cyberneticzoo.com&#x2F;cyberneticanimals&#x2F;1969-the-logo-tur...</a><p>Logo&#x27;s Yellow Turtle: First programmed in 1970. Built at MIT AI Lab:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=KeFhFPNO8hc" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=KeFhFPNO8hc</a><p>Logo Update, Volume 4, Number 3 - Spring 1996:<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20120904211432&#x2F;http:&#x2F;&#x2F;el.media.mit.edu:80&#x2F;logo-foundation&#x2F;pubs&#x2F;logoupdate&#x2F;v4n3.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20120904211432&#x2F;http:&#x2F;&#x2F;el.media.mi...</a>
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thesuperbigfrog超过 5 年前
Python offers a nice Logo-like environment using &quot;import turtle&quot;.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;docs.python.org&#x2F;3&#x2F;library&#x2F;turtle.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;docs.python.org&#x2F;3&#x2F;library&#x2F;turtle.html</a>
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jhbadger超过 5 年前
Logo is actually more than just a toy language for turtle graphics. It&#x27;s a serious language with a lot of inspiration from Lisp (although not using sexps).
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sea6ear超过 5 年前
The book Turtle Geometry [1] by Harold Abelson of SICP fame is a pretty cool exploration of mathematics all the way up to non-euclidean geometry using turtle graphics.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;Turtle-Geometry-Mathematics-Artificial-Intelligence&#x2F;dp&#x2F;0262510375" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;Turtle-Geometry-Mathematics-Artificia...</a>
peterburkimsher超过 5 年前
I rewrote a Logo implementation in JavaScript in order to make a map of the train network in Taiwan.<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;peterburk.github.io&#x2F;tra&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;peterburk.github.io&#x2F;tra&#x2F;</a><p>Existing maps were not bilingual, which caused me to take the wrong train and miss a concert. When I decided to redraw it, I wanted the map to not only have subway-style graphics, but also make the distance between the points be proportional to the time it takes a local train to travel between those stations.<p>If anyone else would like to use Logo to teach kids programming, and make time-proportional subway maps for other cities, please get in touch! I think it&#x27;d be a fun learning exercise.
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9214超过 5 年前
Rebol and Red [1] are the only languages that I know which acknowledge having Logo heritage in their design and philosophy. Speaking from my experience, I can tell that working in them is indeed a deeply embodied microworld-like experience, they way author describes.<p>Manipulating homoiconic structures feels highly spatial, as if you&#x27;re molding a clay with your own hands, or rather palpating the Urschleim. High polymorphism and rich standard library remove the mental burden and quite literally let you <i>think</i> in the language (hi mr. Iversion! [2]) and feel embodied in its runtime. Symbolic programming directly parallels the magic of natural language, its eerie occult power of controlling the world by non-physical means - remember how Sussman spoke about linguistic abstraction and magic incantations in SICP introduction?<p>In fact, in Red and Rebol everything is a little language (an embedded DSL), from metal to meta, and programs in them are this beautiful symbiogenetic ooze of micro-formats, slangs and linguistic DNA strands, from which your program slowly emerges [3]. Ultimately, you and your code become of one mind and body, stitched together by problem-solving intent. &quot;I&#x27;m not <i>moving</i> the turtle, I <i>am</i> the turtle that moves!&quot;.<p>Even thinking about it gives me heebie-jeebies and brings to mind Tsutomu Nihei&#x27;s Blame! [4] ever-growing City structure and Frictional Games&#x27; SOMA craziness [5]. Never experienced anything like that with any other programming language (except maybe for Forth and Lisp, but they are Red and Rebol ancestors too!).<p>--<p>On a slightly different note: there&#x27;s a &quot;Computer science Logo style&quot; book series [6].<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.red-lang.org&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.red-lang.org&#x2F;</a><p>[2]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.jsoftware.com&#x2F;papers&#x2F;tot.htm" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.jsoftware.com&#x2F;papers&#x2F;tot.htm</a><p>[3]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;meltingasphalt.com&#x2F;a-codebase-is-an-organism&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;meltingasphalt.com&#x2F;a-codebase-is-an-organism&#x2F;</a><p>[4]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;myanimelist.net&#x2F;manga&#x2F;149&#x2F;Blame" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;myanimelist.net&#x2F;manga&#x2F;149&#x2F;Blame</a><p>[5]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;somagame.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;somagame.com&#x2F;</a><p>[6]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mitpress.mit.edu&#x2F;books&#x2F;series&#x2F;exploring-logo" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mitpress.mit.edu&#x2F;books&#x2F;series&#x2F;exploring-logo</a>
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sleepybrett超过 5 年前
While Processing isn&#x27;t logo-like in syntax it is logo-like in intention as in it tries to make it very easy for users to get graphics on to screen.<p>Processing is java-based, but it has spawned both a js verison &#x27;p5.js&#x27; and a python version &#x27;processing.py&#x27;.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;processing.org&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;processing.org&#x2F;</a> <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;p5js.org&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;p5js.org&#x2F;</a> <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;py.processing.org&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;py.processing.org&#x2F;</a>
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toontalk超过 5 年前
Regarding<p>...the elements of a language are features of a world I inhabit:<p>Environments are values floating above my head. I have an urge to glance up when I’m thinking about what’s in scope. A closure is a one-way tunnel or pipe or wormhole back into the function environment. But the program itself can’t flow through the pipe. Asynchronous control flow is a stream that I imagine myself floating down. I think about where the stream will take me. Functors are giant structures, like a sculpture by Richard Serra. Functor operations act like cranes, helping me to move around those structures.<p>27 years ago I began working on a programming language in which computational abstractions had concrete animated analogs [1]. ToonTalk was my attempt to make a Logo for the 90s. You programmed in a virtual world where you trained robots to put things in boxes, give birds messages to deliver, etc. The mappings are: computation: city, actor or process or object: house, methods: robots, method preconditions: contents of thought bubble, method actions: actions taught to robot, tuples or messages or vectors: boxes, comparison tests: scales, actor spawning: loaded trucks, actor termination: bombs, constants: numbers, text, and pictures, channel transmit capabilities: birds, channel receive capabilities: nests, program storage: notebooks.<p>ToonTalk became free and open source 12 years ago. 5 years ago I had time to re-implement much of it as a web app [2]. But as Don Hopkins wrote - I&#x27;m focussed now on adding AI to Snap!<p>[1] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.toontalk.com" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.toontalk.com</a> [2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;toontalk.github.io&#x2F;ToonTalk&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;toontalk.github.io&#x2F;ToonTalk&#x2F;</a>
empressplay超过 5 年前
We wrote a 3D version of Apple Logo [1] and we&#x27;re going to be rolling out a tutorial for it for kids + running classes...<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;paleotronic.com&#x2F;software&#x2F;microm8&#x2F;help&#x2F;micrologo&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;paleotronic.com&#x2F;software&#x2F;microm8&#x2F;help&#x2F;micrologo&#x2F;</a>
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dllthomas超过 5 年前
Logo appeared in a puzzle in this year&#x27;s MIT Mystery Hunt: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.mit.edu&#x2F;~puzzle&#x2F;2019&#x2F;puzzle&#x2F;turtle_power.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.mit.edu&#x2F;~puzzle&#x2F;2019&#x2F;puzzle&#x2F;turtle_power.html</a><p>Fun puzzle. Took me back...
justanothersys超过 5 年前
<p><pre><code> I do not think of myself as a closure or a functor, unlike the Logo programmer and the turtle, but the elements of a language are features of a world I inhabit: </code></pre> Here is the main difference between Logo and other languages. It’s called “Embodied Cognition” in academia.
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heyiforgotmypwd超过 5 年前
Ahhh... I remember LOGO on Apple ][e&#x27;s Apple donated to the elementary school I attended.<p>Random Q: Why was that light on Apple&#x27;s keyboard invariably uncomfortably hot?