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'Everyone Should Have a Moral Code' Says Developer Who Deleted Code Sold to ICE

58 点作者 heshiebee超过 5 年前

13 条评论

Verdex超过 5 年前
My first thought was: Look, I don&#x27;t exactly have any love towards ICE, but you can&#x27;t delete code that you were paid for.<p>Then I read the article: Oh. You weren&#x27;t paid for it. You wrote some code, hosted it (with the intent that a third party could use it), and then a third party used your code for a product sold to ICE.<p>Without saying anything about free software. Companies that repackage and sell free software really should have the logistics in place such that this event wouldn&#x27;t be problematic.<p>If you host software for free and you don&#x27;t like what people are doing with it, then I think you should be able to stop hosting that software.
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rudiv超过 5 年前
ITT: post facto justifications for why an open source developer should be forced to materially contribute to actions they find morally abhorrent. Along with many meaningless digressions about the validity of the developer&#x27;s moral code (ignoring the whole point of a moral code not needing outside justification).
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DuskStar超过 5 年前
Should we expect contributors to projects used by China in their &#x27;reeducation&#x27; camps to do similar things, or is this just an isolated demand for morality?
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jrochkind1超过 5 年前
OMG, I just realized this statement from CEO Crist:<p>&gt; &quot;My goal is to continue growing Chef as a company that transcends numerous U.S. presidential administrations. And to be clear: I also find policies such as separating families and detaining children wrong and contrary to the best interests of our country,&quot;<p>Is basically a paraphrase of the psychopathic CEO&#x27;s statement in the movie _Sorry to Bother You_. To me, the most genius gut-punchingly funny part of the movie (which is full of genius laugh out loud and cringe-inducing parts).<p>&quot;See? It&#x27;s all just a big misunderstanding.&quot;<p>&quot;This ain&#x27;t no fucking misunderstanding, man. So, you making half-human half-horse fucking things so you can make more money?&quot;<p>&quot;Yeah, basically. I just didn&#x27;t want you to think I was crazy. That I was doing this for no reason. Because this isn&#x27;t irrational.&quot;<p>&quot;Oh. Cool. Alright. Cool. No, I understand. I just, I just got to leave now, man. So, please get the fuck out of my way.&quot;
peterkelly超过 5 年前
This is what happens when you rely on a mutable package repository.
wbronitsky超过 5 年前
There are so many comments attacking OP for the straw man that he dislikes ICE because they enforce immigration law. I highly doubt that is why OP dislikes ICE. Instead, it is much more likely that he dislikes the tactics used by ICE, such as separating families, and locking people in &quot;ice boxes&quot;.<p>The comments attacking the straw man are seemingly only written to satisfy an attack against an other, which here seems to be the other that &quot;supports illegal immigration&quot;, and I don&#x27;t believe these attacks further the conversation. Nowhere do we have evidence that OP or anyone defending him is in favor of fully open borders, an accusation thrown around more than once in these comments.<p>Regardless of the &quot;why&quot;, the more interesting discussion is the &quot;should&quot;, as in &quot;should people be allowed to rescind their open source work for any reason&quot;. Otherwise, we are just wading back into a political discussion where people are not interested in listening, only fighting.
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AndrewKemendo超过 5 年前
<i>&quot;I was having trouble sleeping at night knowing that software—code that I personally authored—was being sold to and used by such a vile organization,&quot;</i><p>I have bad news for almost every open source contributor then.
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preston4tw超过 5 年前
I wonder if it would be possible to extend open source software licenses and include morals clauses.
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jrochkind1超过 5 年前
So there is a debate about whether a license should be able to have &quot;field of endeavor&quot; limits and still be considered open source; how much control open source authors should (or can) have over it&#x27;s use.<p>What is going on here does NOT seem to be simply a case of the government using open source code.<p>&gt; &quot;While I understand that many of you and many of our community members would prefer we had no business relationship with DHS-ICE, I have made a principled decision, with the support of the Chef executive team, to work with the institutions of our government, regardless of whether or not we personally agree with their various policies,&quot; Crist wrote, who added that Chef&#x27;s work with ICE started during the previous administration.<p>So it seems what happened here is Chef the company went beyond writing FOSS that happened to be picked up by ICE, they have some business relationship with ICE where they get paid.<p>I thought chef was open source, so was confused about what selling the code would entail, but googling discovered that it was &quot;open core&quot;... until apparently April of this year when they released all code apache? <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;techcrunch.com&#x2F;2019&#x2F;04&#x2F;02&#x2F;chef-goes-100-open-source&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;techcrunch.com&#x2F;2019&#x2F;04&#x2F;02&#x2F;chef-goes-100-open-source&#x2F;</a><p>Which leaves me a bit more confused.<p>Vargo was a former employee of Chef the company... who maybe also made open source contributions to the project after he no longer worked there? Unclear.<p>But this quote from CEO Crist is just garbage:<p>&gt; &quot;My goal is to continue growing Chef as a company that transcends numerous U.S. presidential administrations. And to be clear: I also find policies such as separating families and detaining children wrong and contrary to the best interests of our country,&quot; he wrote.<p>And you determined there were no ways of &quot;growing Chef as a company&quot; that didn&#x27;t require aiding and profiting from activities you yourself consider wrong?<p>Does he really think this is a sentence that makes sense and makes him look good? I think he simply told us he prioritizes money above his own values, basically that he is a moral coward unwilling to stand by his convictions.<p>But yeah, the article doesn&#x27;t give the open-source-geeky details we developers interested in open source want. What exactly is the relationship between Chef Inc and ICE? Of Vargo to Chef Inc? Vargo stopped being a chef employee when, and.. continued to contribute to chef after that? What is this &quot;revert to a previous version&quot; going on, to what previous version, a version before Vargo even had any contributions, or what? Which came first, Chef Inc. or chef as a community open source project?
svd4anything超过 5 年前
So he temporarily sabotaged many customers to make a political point about ICE because he believes they are immoral. I’m not sure two wrongs can make a right like that.
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sdinsn超过 5 年前
I do have a moral code. And under my moral code, I&#x27;m happy to provide software to ICE
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wolco超过 5 年前
Every person does but it may not be the same as the author. My moral code would allow me to develop anything for anybody anytime.
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CM30超过 5 年前
Of course, everyone should have a moral code. And moral codes can differ substantially, and be used to justify pretty much anything.<p>Many think selling to ICE is wrong, but many others think it&#x27;s entirely moral&#x2F;justified.<p>And the same goes for everything else. Almost every political&#x2F;moral position you can think of can probably be justified using one moral or ethical code or another. Are their actions right or wrong according to utillitarianism or deontology or virtue ethics? Well if you ask ten different people you&#x27;ll get ten different answers.<p>So I&#x27;m not sure what to think there.<p>P.S. The whole &#x27;right side of history&#x27; thing is super tiresome to read about, since the right side isn&#x27;t necessarily the &#x27;moral&#x27; one, but merely the one with the most cultural mindshare at the time.
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