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Google Employees Explain How They Were Retaliated Against for Reporting Abuse

199 点作者 ForFreedom超过 5 年前

11 条评论

TallGuyShort超过 5 年前
I don&#x27;t really know what anyone* can do to address some of these, as unacceptable as the occurrence of these stories are. Reading through the document (linked to by SolaceQuantum), there&#x27;s one case where someone felt unprotected by HR because they asked HR not to investigate and HR did, and claimed to have fired the person for other HR problems. I&#x27;m not sure what HR should have done there. Are they supposed to not at least investigate serious accusations so they know what happened, even if they never reveal who reported the manager?<p>There are other stories where someone claims something that can&#x27;t be proven and that was either not witnessed, or must have been denied by everyone. Yeah it sucks if everyone on your team is protecting a douche, but... is HR supposed to intervene and fire someone because only one person claims something happened?<p>edit: *I mean anyone in HR. Obviously the team members protecting people are at fault in the first place. If you&#x27;re on the victim side of this, you have to have a paper trail. Even messaging a coworker, &quot;Didn&#x27;t [boss]&#x27;s joke bother you? Where he&#x2F;she [dropped the N-word | kept talking about sex]?&quot; Then HR investigation can&#x27;t say there&#x27;s no evidence. If it progresses to the point of a lawsuit, now you actually have evidence.
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wolco超过 5 年前
Many of these sound like they come from junior members disillusioned with how things work.<p>Things like my manager didn&#x27;t listen to me so I feel belittled. I have the second most experience so he should have. The company then moved me to a different team and I wasn&#x27;t second in command so I lost my leadership.<p>Doesn&#x27;t the manager pick the team? If you don&#x27;t support his vision and want to use a different approach being moved to a different team may be the best solution. What does this person want Google to do? Talk to the manager and tell them to listen to change the approach and listen to this team member because they have different ideas and they need to feel heard.<p>Google can&#x27;t get involved at that level and start second guessing technical details just because someone needs to be heard. They will judge the manager by the project&#x27;s overall goals.<p>The problem is google is giving too much freedom to employees who are use to a little bit more handholding and structured interactions.
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dvt超过 5 年前
HR is not your friend and HR will <i>never</i> be your friend. In a post-2008 world, it baffles me that people still think that somewhere, deep-down, multi-billion dollar conglomerates have employees&#x27; best interests at heart. How quickly we forgot people losing their lifelong savings and entire pension funds going bust. Only to have the government bail out the exact same charlatans that dropped the ball in the first place.<p>Corporate culture is very much a zero-sum game, and I think a pinch of cynicism (or heck, realism) can go a long way.
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SolaceQuantum超过 5 年前
This is covering a full document of 45 google employees&#x27; claims of sexually&#x2F;racially motivated abuse, toxic workplace experiences, and retaliatory behavior upon attempting to report such. Here is the link to the full document: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.documentcloud.org&#x2F;documents&#x2F;6427199-Examples-Retaliation-at-Google.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.documentcloud.org&#x2F;documents&#x2F;6427199-Examples-Ret...</a>
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zimbatm超过 5 年前
To put things in perspective, 45 employees represent ~0.14% of all the women working at Google (based on wikipedia and [1]). Given my perception of humans and abusive corporate structures, I am actually quite impressed!<p>Obviously the article doesn&#x27;t tell us anything on the collection methodology, or try to put things in perspective. The reader is free to apply their bias and infer the meaning that suits them the best.<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;fortune.com&#x2F;2017&#x2F;06&#x2F;29&#x2F;google-2017-diversity-report&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;fortune.com&#x2F;2017&#x2F;06&#x2F;29&#x2F;google-2017-diversity-report&#x2F;</a>
oliverx0超过 5 年前
I realise I might get downvoted here because of an unpopular point of view, but some of these comments raise a few flags:<p>“I reported it up to where my manager knew, my director knew, the coworker’s manager knew and our HR representative knew. Nothing happened. I was warned that things will get very serious if continued,”<p>So EVERYONE knew and they still disagreed with their point of view. Warned them that accusations without proof like that would get serious. Does that make them evil?<p>“I whistle blew a colleague who used the N-word in jokes. HR found nothing conclusive”<p>So HR investigated, found nothing conclusive. What is the alternative? The did their job and arrived to a conclusion. Just because the conclusion did not match the accusation, now Google is evil?<p>“when I was sexually harassed on my former team by my [team lead] I quickly reported it to my manager. I was told I was ‘overreacting’ and that I should just ‘get over it.’”<p>Again, this seems to be a subjective stance. Your manager thought you were overreacting, given whatever proof &#x2F; accusations you provided. Just because he &#x2F; she did not agree with it, does not mean they are evil.
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Mathnerd314超过 5 年前
Back in 2007 Google was apparently a decent place to work, not much going on politically and mostly developer-led: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=75470" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=75470</a>. In 2009 it was about the same, but managers started complaining: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=552976" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=552976</a>. In 2010 a lot more managers were hired. In 2011 Google started killing products and developers lost a lot of credibility: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=2557672" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=2557672</a>. Managers suddenly gained the upper hand and started pushing revenue as the bottom line. The smarter or well-connected developers started leaving: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=3700277" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=3700277</a>. By 2013, 20% time was &quot;dead&quot;: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=6223466" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=6223466</a>.<p>I didn&#x27;t follow Google workplace standards much after that, but my general impression is it continued declining, more management pressure and relatively lower pay&#x2F;benefits for new workers. Then we started getting leaks from inside Google in 2017 and life at Google has been &quot;miserable&quot; since then. (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=20684463" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=20684463</a>)<p>The only obvious solution is to start firing people; Google has been in growth mode for a long time and managers perform their jobs a lot better when they&#x27;re worried about themselves. This could happen naturally as a reaction to ad revenue flattening out or maybe Google will shift to a high-turnover culture like Amazon.
rnernento超过 5 年前
For this to be meaningful in any way I&#x27;d love to see some statistics as to how many people Google employs (broken down by gender&#x2F;cultural background&#x2F;etc.) and then see their complaint rate. I&#x27;d then like to see it compared against other companies.<p>While the anecdotal evidence is salacious it&#x27;s not really useful in determining whether or not they&#x27;re &quot;evil&quot;.
a4e329e1270a超过 5 年前
This boycott and these comments are being orchestrated by [redacted]. [redacted] is a transexual activist, and an offender in sexual harassment themselves. I&#x27;m posting this on a throwaway for obvious reasons.<p>I worked at Google from 2010-2014. Over the summer of 2012 or 2013, I joined an Eve Online &quot;Corporation&quot; (guild) with [redacted], and another one of my coworkers. It was a crazy place. [redacted] had a fanatical hatred of &quot;Rape Jokes&quot;. Rape was not a joke to [redacted]. Rape was a fantasy that [redacted] was all too happy to describe in great detail. The corporation was &quot;Kink Friendly&quot;. I&#x27;m embarrassed to say that that was part of the appeal to me - I&#x27;m happy to tie my girlfriends up as part of roleplay. [redacted]&#x27;s fantasies were a great deal more detailed and a great deal less fantasy oriented than I would like. I left that corporation after a while, though not as quickly as I should have. I was young, I was confused, and based on the success of her &quot;Real Names Considered Harmful&quot; letter, I believed that [redacted] was a credible, accredited leader.<p>The same coworker who introduced me to [redacted] would, several times, invite me to join them for lunch at &quot;Club Z&quot;. I declined - Partially because something seemed off, mostly because I was satisfied with the lunches at Google. I would only later find out that &quot;Club Z&quot; is not a lunch place - It&#x27;s a (rather infamous) Gay Bathhouse here in Seattle.<p>While I was in that corp, though, I was sexually assaulted by a former friend. About a year I knew and had considered a friend had some out as bi, and had &quot;Confessed their love&quot; to me... by forcefully kissing me at a party. I was embarrassed, I was not interested, and I made it pretty politely clear, to which they reacted badly. Now they had come out as &quot;trans&quot;, and received an outpouring of support from mutual friends. Said friends convinced me to give them another chance. At their urging, I agreed to hang out with this friend, at a &quot;Movie Night&quot;. A movie night which no-one else showed to. Said former friend pressured me to try weed, which I had never done before. Okay. Red flag. I was dumb, and I regret it. Said friend offered to show me his &quot;Uncle&#x27;s&quot; stash of Child Pornography. I already suspected they were a pedo, but, yeah. Should have run right then, was drunk. Said &quot;friend&quot; then tried to force himself on me. I am not bigger, but I am strong, and I forced them off. I was also drunk, and spent several uncomfortable hours waiting to sober up, repeatedly fending off unwanted advances.<p>Anyway: Being dumb, having listened to too much of the bullshit excuses, I went to the only Trans* person I knew to talk about it. [redacted]. They told me how much I was in the wrong, how important it was for Trans* people to explore their sexuality, and called me a monster for not having responded positively. &quot;What if a biological woman had hit on you?&quot; - The tired old canard was trotted out.<p>I do not have any direct evidence of wrongdoing by [redacted]. I only know that they hang out with, and are supported by, people who were long overdue for censure. People who were repeatedly able to convince others that they were the victims despite their clear aggression.
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claudeganon超过 5 年前
I hope that Googlers can work toward creating a labor organization that helps them resolve these issues, because in light of all this and after Google HR’s involvement in the wage-fixing scandal, it seems obvious that things are pretty rotten in terms of their internal governance.
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throwawaysea超过 5 年前
What came of the employees threatening physical violence against James Damore? Were they fired?
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