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Dear Stack Exchange, Inc.

425 点作者 bmease超过 5 年前

26 条评论

xibalba超过 5 年前
I suspect that the average user of SE will not care one bit about this whole drama.<p>I do find it frustrating, puzzling, and sad how SE appears to have treated Monica Cellio. She provides an excellent summary (from her perspective) here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cellio.dreamwidth.org&#x2F;2064709.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cellio.dreamwidth.org&#x2F;2064709.html</a>
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ldigas超过 5 年前
While, in the beginning, a very active user, I&#x27;ve long now given up on that network. I can&#x27;t remember when was the last time I asked a question without being forced to defend it for a period of at least a few hours, why it shouldn&#x27;t be closed as a duplicate, offtopic or ... It used to be an excellent network, but nowadays it&#x27;s just script-kiddies-playing-admins&#x2F;editors playground. It is no longer a productive technical community, so I&#x27;ve gone back to specialized forums. Pity, I really liked the sites in the beginning.
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ben174超过 5 年前
It&#x27;s incredible that pronouns can bring down an entire community. Pick you battles please, we&#x27;re losing good things because of this silly conflict.
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oefrha超过 5 年前
&gt; We are disappointed with the lack of responsiveness to community concerns. On Meta Stack Exchange, bug reports, feature and support requests go unacknowledged, sometimes for months or years, and some excellent posts never receive a staff response. Meanwhile, there have been cases when staff have responded to complaints on Twitter almost immediately, taking action without due process and without consulting with the impacted sites.<p>It’s sad that more and more companies ignore normal support channels (a very well established and proven one in SE’s case) and only answer to Twitter shaming. For one thing, it’s very unfair to those of us who don’t (otherwise) use Twitter — I have to keep an account just for tech support, and even then I highly doubt my requests are valued as much as ones from accounts with 10k or more followers.
onetime0001超过 5 年前
I don’t understand why gender&#x2F;pronouns is even being discussed. Someone’s personal feelings don’t really have any place in a question&#x2F;answers site. It’s fine to respect a persons feelings and such when talking to a person but when answering a question or asking the question. The gender&#x2F;pronoun is irrelevant.
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u-dissolve超过 5 年前
This reminds me of the time when stack exchange updated their terms of service to include an arbitration clause. The community was in uproar over this decision, yet the clause stands to this day.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;meta.stackexchange.com&#x2F;questions&#x2F;309746&#x2F;a-new-2018-update-to-our-terms-of-service-is-here" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;meta.stackexchange.com&#x2F;questions&#x2F;309746&#x2F;a-new-2018-u...</a><p>Stack overflow&#x27;s terms of service is pretty terrible, receiving the worst rank in terms of user hostility on TOS;DR.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;tosdr.org&#x2F;#stackoverflow" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;tosdr.org&#x2F;#stackoverflow</a>
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King-Aaron超过 5 年前
I remember when Stack Exchange was about fixing broken code.
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chimi超过 5 年前
Honest Question: Why continue to support stack exchange through this? They have shown themselves to be disingenuous at best. They are now profiting off free labor. They started it because ExpertsExchange was hiding answers. They rode the high horse to hypocrisy.<p>Why continue helping people like that succeed?<p>Why not just start a new one? Leave en masse to a new playground. Speak with your answers.<p>Show the powers that be they can&#x27;t treat the sharecroppers like this anymore.<p>Hasn&#x27;t history shown the way? It&#x27;s repeating itself all over this controversy.<p>Is this an inevitability? How can this be prevented?<p>It feels like the issue regarding Monica is just <i>the</i> issue we are all talking about, but ultimately, it goes <i>much</i> deeper.
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Causality1超过 5 年前
It&#x27;s terribly sad that StackExchange is less likely to respond to a well-reasoned argument by informed and invested moderators like this than a pack of idiots on Twitter hooting for blood. Cancel-culture is cancer.
je42超过 5 年前
This is totally sad. I really wonder how a company could publish a year ago in 2018 &quot;Our Theory of Moderation, Re-visited.&quot;:<p>&gt; Trust people. &gt; Supporting people should be your default reaction<p>and then a year later be in this current state.<p>Worse is, SE seems to unable to reactify the situation in a meaninful and trustful way.
sqldba超过 5 年前
Shouldn’t the CTO fire the person who was directly responsible for firing Monica? Why isn’t that part of it?
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OedipusRex超过 5 年前
See <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=21175225" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=21175225</a>
throwaway10_06超过 5 年前
&quot;Beware of words. The moment you look away, they will take on a life of their own; they will dazzle, mesmerize, terrorize, lead you astray from the reality they represent, lead you to believe they are real. The world you see is not the kingdom seen by children, but a fragmented world, broken into a thousand pieces by the word. It is as if each ocean wave were seen to be distinct and separate from the body of the ocean.&quot;
fenwick67超过 5 年前
I would love a nice couple paragraphs that said &quot;here&#x27;s what happened&quot;, otherwise taking any side in this is just taking shots in the dark, I&#x27;m basically reading &quot;certain events happened with a certain individual and that&#x27;s not okay&quot;
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loxs超过 5 年前
Stack Exchange is now a political battleground and long are gone the days when it was a tool for sharing technological knowledge. They are now competing who is more oppressed instead of who knows more.<p>That&#x27;s what you get when you let ideology become more important than the core of the product.<p>This is only the beginning of the downfall.
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awinter-py超过 5 年前
the free &amp; freemium web have an arbitration gap and it will get worse before it gets better<p>stackexchange works because questions can get answered with relatively little money changing hands (AWS &amp; advertisers mainly), but that means employees can&#x27;t offer due process on disputes without erasing the company&#x27;s margins.<p>these companies can&#x27;t offer centralized due process to everyone because it would open them to being DDOS&#x27;d by competitors &#x2F; trolls. Maybe justice can be crowdsourced in the same way as javascript questions by identifying neutral people in the stackexchange network, but that would be a huge experiment and open SO&#x2F;SE to community backlash when it went badly.
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tzfld超过 5 年前
I have read every hn submitted articles about this drama, but I still don&#x27;t get what this is all about. Maybe because of my english not being the best.
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notadev超过 5 年前
In the early 2000s, Community Leaders (unpaid volunteers who &#x27;worked&#x27; as moderators on AOL) sued AOL for compensation for their work under the Fair Labor Standards Act. They won $15 million.<p>All volunteers should do the same. StackExchange mods, Reddit moderators, etc. Stop working for free to advance the financial interests of these for-profit companies looking to exploit your labor.
nazka超过 5 年前
I don&#x27;t understand how they are not actively engaging with the community. It&#x27;s going to cost them every day this is not taken care of. Key people already left, more will leave, and the damage will still be here. Even if they come back to how it was before doesn&#x27;t mean everybody will come back after that like nothing happened.
_pmf_超过 5 年前
I see the moderators as (major) part of the problem.<p>&gt; There was a time when the most valuable asset of the Stack Exchange network was the people who freely contributed their time and energy to build communities in support of its mission.<p>Deleting valid or interesting questions is not something I consider to be a valuable contribution.
dangus超过 5 年前
I&#x27;m totally out of the loop about what this drama is about, and I&#x27;ll stay that way.<p>These are unpaid community moderators. They are essentially volunteers doing this work because they want to. So let&#x27;s ponder to ourselves and relate this to our own lives, what kind of relationship do we have with the organizations and people we do volunteer work with?<p>If you&#x27;re at a point where you&#x27;re so dissatisfied that you&#x27;re writing a sprawling open letter, a manifesto of your dissatisfaction, going as far as buying a domain and setting up a website to publicize how upset you are, just to complain to a place that you volunteer at, you know, maybe it&#x27;s time to just let it go. Maybe don&#x27;t volunteer there. StackExchange isn&#x27;t even a charity, it&#x27;s a private for-profit company.<p>At the end of the day, people visiting the site just did a quick Google search and wanted their questions answered for free. They are generally unwilling to pay for this service. If StackExchange didn&#x27;t exist something very similar would take its place. None of the general public needs to hear about whatever moderator drama took place, even if something criminal happened. It&#x27;s not our problem.<p>The users don&#x27;t actually implicitly value what the moderators do. So if the moderators aren&#x27;t happy, they should do something else with their valuable time.
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ykevinator超过 5 年前
Dear moderators,<p>Stop flagging stuff as dupes, then I will support your thing. And also why do you work for free,<p>Love, Kevin
sgt超过 5 年前
I&#x27;m confused here. What&#x27;s the TL;DR of what happened?
anon12345690超过 5 年前
yea these pronouns affect like 0.01% of people but go ahead and worry about them instead of everyone else and youll ruin every community<p>when are people gonna figure out that you cant make everyone happy and the people who whine about pronouns wont ever stop<p>nice downvotes lol, cant handle the truth?
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peterwwillis超过 5 年前
Who else remembers the world before SE, when people just did exactly the same thing as SE, but on mailing lists, and we found answers via web search, and we didn&#x27;t need all this moderation, categorization, voting, etc?
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nabdab超过 5 年前
Stack exchange has had issues from the beginning with absolutely horrible people being mean aggressive and deflective, telling people they are idiots for not providing 110% of available information in their first answer. Moving to close questions as duplicates or irrelevant while the answer still hasn’t resolved anything. The site supported this because it helped promote their “one true answer high on google ranking”-value drive<p>It’s been an extremely toxic environment, which however was very useful for searching out answers to common questions after the fact.<p>Now not too long ago I thought from their public communication that they wanted to fix this, or at least make some serious headway towards reducing the toxicity and vile. But no. Instead they decided to hire the assholes and have them be assholes to the community moderators. This time over something as silly as the right to not always actively referring to people in gendered terms.