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Still Manufacturing Consent: An Interview with Noam Chomsky

559 点作者 zachguo超过 5 年前

19 条评论

thundergolfer超过 5 年前
Among people familiar with the book, &quot;Has the propaganda model been invalidated by the social media media giants?&quot; is a regular question. Chomsky&#x27;s initial reply is most of what needs to be said. Information production is a vital part of the media industry and the landscape of information producers by volume is more or less the same as it was back then — dominated by state institutions and corporations. It was so interesting to read that section in <i>Manufacturing Consent</i>; the hard numbers really helped get a proper sense of the scale imbalances in information production.<p>The marking out of the symbiotic relationship between reliable information producers and journalists is also vital to understanding the media system. A reliable, centralised stream of new information content is the life blood of journalism organisations, with a strong emphasis on _reliable_ and _centralised_. This particular need that journalists have sees them often becoming dependent on state institutions and corporations at the expense of minority groups and labor. An example being the journalists &#x27;on the beat&#x27; that used to hang out around the local courthouse because that&#x27;s where the &#x27;feeding trough&#x27; is. Or the reports so nicely formatted and condensed produced by the state departments such that journos merely have to copy-paste the information straight into their papers. Easy-peasy.<p>Fascinating book.
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A4ET8a8uTh0超过 5 年前
I find it beyond fascinating that Chomsky is effectively barred from appearing on any news network. His perspective is that dangerous to the status quo and, amusingly, supports his points about media control.
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tchalla超过 5 年前
Here&#x27;s a nice 1h documentary on &quot;Engineering Consent&quot; focusing on Edward Bernays (pioneer of PR and propaganda).<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.arte.tv&#x2F;en&#x2F;videos&#x2F;071470-000-A&#x2F;propaganda-engineering-consent&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.arte.tv&#x2F;en&#x2F;videos&#x2F;071470-000-A&#x2F;propaganda-engine...</a>
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tsimionescu超过 5 年前
Of all of Chomsky&#x27;s positions that I have read, the propaganda model is the hardest to doubt - it seems almost unassailable. Are there any convincing criticisms of it?
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mc32超过 5 年前
Manufactured consent can be similar to fabrication. But, it cuts both ways. People think of this manufacture as big gov or big biz pushing their agenda trough their lapdog media. But the same process happens with social causes. Let’s say vegetarianism or the anti-fur movement (very few people would disagree with the latter), but this took manufactured consent to achieve. The same with environmental and social causes. People don’t just wake up and change their minds. These opinions are filtered down to them.
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schalab超过 5 年前
I love how people are worried about the far right in these comments but not on the impact of propaganda on themselves.<p>This recent Kurds vs Turkey is an example of this.<p>The left usually hates war. Why? If you break down to the lowest level, it looks like the current left is mainly dominated by the maternal instinct. In every issue they divide the world into child vs predator. And they always come down on the side protecting the weak child.<p>You can see this across a number of social, economic and geo poilitical issues.<p>In terms of war, they look at it as America&#x27;s selfish predatory instincts preying upon innocent parties in the middle east leading to countless lives lost of the weak.<p>So how do you get people who think like this to support war?<p>Simple. Invent a weak, childlike ally in the middle of the war zone, who are being attacked by a notorious hateful predator, and we would be abandoning them if we dont put our troops in harms way.<p>So, you rebrand the american troop presence as honorable protection rather than predatory intervention. Thats all it takes to manufacture consent.
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bhntr3超过 5 年前
This article is from June. I&#x27;ve generally been a bit skeptical of Noam Chomsky&#x27;s politics but this interaction seems prophetic given the current situation in Syria and makes me think that I should give &quot;Manufacturing Consent&quot; some attention:<p>&gt;But as Patrick Cockburn pointed out in the Independent, what is happening in Afrin is about the same.<p>&gt; AM: Happening where, sorry?<p>&gt; NC: Afrin. Turkish forces and their allies are carrying out the attack in a mostly Kurdish area. Patrick Cockburn has covered it, but almost nobody else.<p>Doing some research on it, the articles I read in the Washington Post (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.washingtonpost.com&#x2F;world&#x2F;2019&#x2F;10&#x2F;11&#x2F;who-are-kurds-why-is-turkey-attacking-them&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.washingtonpost.com&#x2F;world&#x2F;2019&#x2F;10&#x2F;11&#x2F;who-are-kurd...</a>) said that the Turkish offensive was &quot;days old&quot; while the Independent article Chomsky references (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.independent.co.uk&#x2F;voices&#x2F;syria-afrin-crisis-turkish-forces-civilians-deaths-eastern-ghouta-assad-a8247206.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.independent.co.uk&#x2F;voices&#x2F;syria-afrin-crisis-turk...</a>) attributes a death toll of 220 to Turkey in March 2018.
k1m超过 5 年前
The 1992 documentary film based on Herman and Chomsky&#x27;s Manufacturing Consent book is also worth watching <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=AnrBQEAM3rE" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=AnrBQEAM3rE</a>
sudoaza超过 5 年前
How is it that this guy still has no Nobel Prize?
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codeulike超过 5 年前
Noam Chomsky is 91. Holy crap.<p>My favourite Chomsky thing is the very short shrift he gives to conspiracy theorists.<p>e.g. Rethinking Camelot, his book about JFK - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;zcomm.org&#x2F;wp-content&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;zbooks&#x2F;htdocs&#x2F;chomsky&#x2F;rc&#x2F;rc-contents.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;zcomm.org&#x2F;wp-content&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;zbooks&#x2F;htdocs&#x2F;chomsky&#x2F;r...</a> - the thesis being that JFK was really no different to any other president at that time - the idea he was radical being a kindof post-hoc reconstruction - and hence there was absolutely no reason for anyone to want to bump him off.<p><i>A methodological point is perhaps worth mention. Suppose that we were to concoct a theory about historical events at random, while permitting ourselves to assume arbitrary forms of deceit and falsification. Then in the vast documentary record, we are sure to find scattered hints and other debris that could be made to conform to the theory, while counter-evidence is nullified. By that method, one can &quot;prove&quot; virtually anything. For example, we can prove that JFK never intended to withdraw any troops, citing the elusiveness of NSAM 263 and his unwillingness to commit himself to the withdrawal recommended by his war managers. Or we can prove that the attempt to assassinate Reagan was carried out by dark forces (Alexander Haig, the CIA, etc.). After all, Reagan had backed away from using US forces directly in Central America (unlike JFK in Vietnam); he was cozying up to the Chicoms; he had already given intimations of the anti-nuclear passion that led him to offer to give away the store at Rejkjavik and to join forces with the arch-fiend Gorbachev, whose perestroika was a transparent plot to entrap us; his associates were planning off-the-shelf international operations, bypassing intelligence and the Pentagon. Obviously, he has to go. Or suppose there had been an attempt to assassinate LBJ in late 1964, when he was refusing the call of the military to stand up to the Commies in Vietnam, pursuing Great Society and civil rights programs with a zeal well beyond Kennedy, and about to defeat a real alternative, Barry Goldwater. Nothing is easier than to construct a high-level conspiracy to get rid of this &quot;radical reformer.&quot; The task is only facilitated by a search for nuances and variations of phrasing in the mountains of documents, usually committee jobs put together hastily with many compromises.<p>This is not the way to learn about the world.</i>
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freeflight超过 5 年前
I consider myself a rather well-informed person, but this is the first time I&#x27;ve read about Harris Media involvement in the last German election and I&#x27;m German. All I can remember is indeed the &quot;Russian interference&quot; and how the AfD is supposedly financed out of Russia.<p>But that Bloomberg Businessweek article [0] unearths some scary details:<p>“We took that 300,000 (AfD likes), and Facebook created a model of them and used their lookalike audiences to find the closest 1 percent of German people to match that audience,”<p>That &quot;1 percent&quot; sounds extremely familiar, particularly in a far-right context [1] It makes me wonder who originally came up with that concept, was it Harris Media or was it the idea of their client, the AfD?<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bloomberg.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;articles&#x2F;2017-09-29&#x2F;the-german-far-right-finds-friends-through-facebook" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bloomberg.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;articles&#x2F;2017-09-29&#x2F;the-germa...</a><p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;de.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Ein_Prozent_f%C3%BCr_unser_Land" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;de.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Ein_Prozent_f%C3%BCr_unser_Lan...</a>
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yakovsi超过 5 年前
Genuine question, why does he say NYT and WaPo present &quot;center to far right opinion&quot;? C&#x27;mon. How NYT is far right?
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dls2016超过 5 年前
It&#x27;s funny&#x2F;sad that there&#x27;s even a term for when reporters venture outside of the confines of their pen: investigative journalism.
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TheSpiceIsLife超过 5 年前
Would be great if the video was available.
Shivetya超过 5 年前
I do find it interesting that while he talks about frameworks from within media conveys the story they present, a property of the government they work and live under, he seems overly concerned with large corporations having too much power of influence.<p>Well, sorry, but the same has been true about governments for too long. For too long they controlled the message and some of them are doing their damn best to not lose that control. Whether but authoritarian methods as used in China to coercion of public opinion in Western countries that government needs to step in and protect people from the message they don&#x27;t control and therefor is not true.<p>This is not to say that very large organizations like Facebook or Google are not a concern but to highlight the hypocrisy that does not call out the various governments who are worse regardless of what method they use to control speech and money
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MarkMc超过 5 年前
I&#x27;d agree that Noam Chomsky&#x27;s linguistic contribution is of the highest order, but I&#x27;m not so sure about his political analysis. Here are his comments in 1977 regarding the reported genocide in Cambodia [1]: &quot;We do not pretend to know where the truth lies amidst these sharply conflicting assessments; rather, we again want to emphasize some crucial points. What filters through to the American public is a seriously distorted version of the evidence available, emphasizing alleged Khmer Rouge atrocities and downplaying or ignoring the crucial U.S. role, direct and indirect, in the torment that Cambodia has suffered. Evidence that focuses on the American role, like the Hildebrand and Porter volume, is ignored, not on the basis of truthfulness or scholarship but because the message is unpalatable.&quot;<p>And on the veracity of reports about horrific slaughter made by Cambodian refugees: &quot;Refugees are frightened and defenseless, at the mercy of alien forces. They naturally tend to report what they believe their interlocuters wish to hear. While these reports must be considered seriously, care and caution are necessary. Specifically, refugees questioned by Westerners or Thais have a vested interest in reporting atrocities on the part of Cambodian revolutionaries, an obvious fact that no serious reporter will fail to take into account.&quot;<p>Did Chomsky show poor judgement by discounting such refugee reports? Was the evidence of genocide really so muddy in 1977 that you could not &#x27;know where the truth lies&#x27;?<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20131207072650&#x2F;http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.abc.net.au&#x2F;unleashed&#x2F;2779086.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20131207072650&#x2F;http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.abc.ne...</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;m.jpost.com&#x2F;Opinion&#x2F;Terra-Incognita-Chomsky-and-the-myth-of-instant-expertise-514661" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;m.jpost.com&#x2F;Opinion&#x2F;Terra-Incognita-Chomsky-and-the-...</a>
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edoo超过 5 年前
The latest CNN veritas videos are eye opening. Chomsky is still dead on as far as I can tell.
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tony12356超过 5 年前
哈哈233333
YeGoblynQueenne超过 5 年前
&gt;&gt; Note: The day after this interview took place, the Sun, Britain’s largest newspaper by circulation, ran with the front-page headline, “Putin’s Puppet: Corbyn Refuses to Blast Russia on Spy Attack,” as the leader of the Labour Party did not unreservedly endorse sanctions on Russia.<p>I&#x27;ve noticed this sort of thing and it just doesn&#x27;t make sense. The UK press (not just the tabloids) loves to present Corby as simultaneously a &quot;Red&quot; and a &quot;Putin&#x27;s puppet&quot;. How does that work? Putin is not a communist. He&#x27;s probably as far as it&#x27;s possible to be from being a communist without being a Stalinist.<p>Corby is clearly a leftie, so what&#x27;s his affiliation to Putin supposed to be? Why is the British press _still_ associating Russia to communism? They missed the memo in 1989?<p>(Ask me for refs on the press calling Corby a commie if you are curious).
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