TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants

184 点作者 hkmaxpro超过 5 年前

29 条评论

joemaller1超过 5 年前
Is the author really in Buffalo? That’s the other side of the state.<p>From my personal experience in nyc, and from talking to neighbors who own restaurants, small and family owned businesses are absolutely hurting. They’ve reduced staff, and owners are making up lost hours themselves. Delivery has been mostly outsourced. The price of everything on the menu has gone up. A number of lower-cost restaurants have closed completely. Whatever reported numbers the author based this upon do not tell a complete story.
评论 #21386445 未加载
评论 #21386862 未加载
评论 #21386551 未加载
评论 #21386471 未加载
评论 #21386330 未加载
评论 #21386707 未加载
评论 #21387153 未加载
评论 #21386344 未加载
评论 #21387307 未加载
enobrev超过 5 年前
I don&#x27;t know a ton about the economics but my living experience lines up with this article. At least half of my closest friends are in the service industry. I spent most of my 20s and 30s in NYC before the wage increase. Those friends generally couldn&#x27;t afford much of anything, outside of rent and a steady supply of cigarettes. It&#x27;s the reason bartenders tend to &quot;give the bar away&quot; in NYC. Because their friends can&#x27;t afford much else.<p>Then I moved to Seattle and noticed something entirely different. Same sort of friends - mostly service industry. And this was before the increase to $15&#x2F;hr, when it was $12&#x2F;hr. What was starkly different was that our new friends could actually afford to do things. Nice dinners, bars around town where we didn&#x27;t know the bartenders, movies, trips to Portland and Vancouver. Same jobs, but with money to spend.<p>And then there&#x27;s the side that was close to home. My wife was, for the first 2&#x2F;3 of our relationship, a bartender. In NYC she had her good weeks, pulling in over $2k and her bad weeks, making somewhere around $100 for the week. Hard to say what was &quot;normal&quot; and impossible to predict. It was impossible to plan around her income so I basically just asked her to give me half and it would essentially even out. Then we moved to Seattle, again at $12&#x2F;hr minimum (she was making $17-$20 I think) and our whole situation was different. We were already doing fine because I make a good living but now I could finally count on her contribution. We were able to save, plan trips, etc in ways we couldn&#x27;t before because now we had a baseline amount that she would always make. The tips we&#x27;re just a cherry on top.<p>And then we moved to Chicago with a shitty mimimum wage for servers and my wife left the industry entirely. She had gotten used to some stability in her income and now with a low minimum wage for servers, there is none. Even at a nice theater gig, she was making less than any job she had in Seattle and again relying upon the whims of her customers rather than the stability of the industry.
评论 #21387311 未加载
Ensorceled超过 5 年前
The comments on these types of articles always hurt my brain. Blaming minimum wage increases for McDonald&#x27;s, Walmart, pretty much everybody bringing in automated tellers for instance.<p>I&#x27;m always bemused by the arguments against minimum wages, they almost always boil down to &quot;My business can&#x27;t survive unless my employees are living in poverty.&quot; which, in reality for a lot of businesses, is &quot;I won&#x27;t be as profitable if I have to pay a living wage&quot;.<p>If people really believed this, there would be staged minimum wages: Walmart pays $25 minimum while small, struggling restaurants pay $15.
评论 #21386178 未加载
评论 #21386145 未加载
评论 #21387681 未加载
评论 #21388868 未加载
评论 #21388199 未加载
评论 #21386211 未加载
评论 #21386327 未加载
评论 #21416350 未加载
评论 #21386225 未加载
评论 #21386265 未加载
zer0faith超过 5 年前
As a business owner if I am required to pay my workers at minimum 15$ an hour I will need to off set the impact to my bottom line. This can be done by:<p>Automate whatever can be<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.forbes.com&#x2F;sites&#x2F;edrensi&#x2F;2018&#x2F;07&#x2F;11&#x2F;mcdonalds-says-goodbye-cashiers-hello-kiosks&#x2F;#2eb695366f14" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.forbes.com&#x2F;sites&#x2F;edrensi&#x2F;2018&#x2F;07&#x2F;11&#x2F;mcdonalds-sa...</a><p>Raise the price of goods and services<p>Outsource to other countries (if cost is cheaper)<p>For those that aren&#x27;t aware typical rent in NYC on a corner lot for a restaurant is about 18k per month.
评论 #21386236 未加载
评论 #21387300 未加载
评论 #21387401 未加载
评论 #21387668 未加载
评论 #21386261 未加载
xracy超过 5 年前
&quot;According to an analysis by the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, if low-wage workers have more money in their pockets, they will have more money to spend, potentially expanding the number of consumers who can afford to eat out.&quot;<p>^ This seems to me to be the most brain-dead obvious response to trickle-down economics, and income inequality. Like, More people getting money, means more money flowing. We should tax the rich for this reason alone. Otherwise money stagnates, and doesn&#x27;t do anything. It&#x27;s functionally useless. Jeff Bezos has admitted as much saying something to the effect of &quot;I don&#x27;t know what to do with all of my money&quot;.
评论 #21389554 未加载
tosser0001超过 5 年前
Why is $15&#x2F;hr the magic number? Just because it&#x27;s some round number?<p>If raising the minimum wage has had nothing but positive effects, why not raise it to $20&#x2F;hr - or some other number calculated for maximum benefit - who knows what that would be?
评论 #21387344 未加载
评论 #21387371 未加载
lr4444lr超过 5 年前
The author fails to answer one of the hypotheses she raises: were hours cut?
barry-cotter超过 5 年前
There may be a careful analysis of the effect of a $15 minimum wage on the restaurant industry in New York but this isn’t it. It doesn’t mention whether entry of low skilled workers into the industry decreased, the effect of the change on hours worked, substitution away from labour or decreases in non-pecuniary compensation.<p>It could be that every single one of these points to the minimum wage hike having small to non-existent effects but the article reads like a brief, not an analysis.<p>Compared to the Seattle minimum wage study. They had an objective study set up and when they didn’t like the results they got some political hacks to re-analyze the data and release their results beforehand.<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.seattleweekly.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;seattle-is-getting-an-object-lesson-in-weaponized-data&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.seattleweekly.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;seattle-is-getting-an-obje...</a><p>&gt; Two weeks. Two studies on minimum wage. Two very different results.<p>&gt; Last week, a report out of the University of California—Berkeley found “Seattle’s minimum wage ordinance has raised wages for low-paid workers, without negatively affecting employment,” in the words of the Mayor’s Office. That report, produced by the Center on Wage and Employment Dynamics at Berkeley, was picked up far and wide as proof that the doomsday scenarios predicted by skeptics of the plan were failing to materialize.<p>&gt; And while another study that came out Monday from researchers at the University of Washington doesn’t exactly spell doomsday either, it wasn’t exactly rosy. “UW study finds Seattle’s minimum wage is costing jobs,” read the Seattle Times headline Monday morning. The study found that while wages for low-earners rose by 3 percent since the law went into effect, hours for those workers dropped by 9 percent. The average worker making less than $19 an hour in Seattle has seen a total loss of $125 a month since the law went into effect.<p>Edit: RickJWagner points out<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=21386070" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=21386070</a><p>&gt; business owners ... say the extra money comes with an unforeseen cost: higher good prices, fewer working hours and layoffs.<p>&gt; “Many people working in the restaurant industry wanted to work overtime hours, but due to the increase, many restaurants have cut back or totally eliminated any overtime work,” Andrew Riggie, executive director of the New York City Hospitality Alliance, told Fox News. “There’s only so much consumers are willing to pay for a burger or a bowl of pasta.”<p>&gt; Roughly 77 percent of NYC restaurants have slashed employee hours. Thirty-six percent said they had to layoff employees and 90 percent had to increase prices following the minimum wage hike, according to a NYC Hospitality Alliance survey taken just one month after the bill took effect.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;nationalinterest.org&#x2F;blog&#x2F;buzz&#x2F;new-york-city’s-15-minimum-wage-now-officially-disaster-71761" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;nationalinterest.org&#x2F;blog&#x2F;buzz&#x2F;new-york-city’s-15-mi...</a>
评论 #21386215 未加载
edanm超过 5 年前
There&#x27;s a certain assumption that minimum wage advocates have that I don&#x27;t really connect with. The idea is that of the <i>business</i> having responsibility for making sure their employees have a &quot;living wage&quot;.<p>Why is it on the business? This seems like such an old-school, patronizing view of the relationship between a business and its employees. It&#x27;s a business transaction between two parties - nothing more. If we as a society believe that people shouldn&#x27;t be earning so little money, then fine - we can tax richer people and give the money to people making less. But that&#x27;s on <i>everyone</i> in the society, not just the specific business owners that just happen to employ these specific workers.
9HZZRfNlpR超过 5 年前
I don&#x27;t understand why people still tip if they make 15 per hour. As it writes in the article they have tip credit but the employer would still have to cough that 15 bucks if they didn&#x27;t make enough in tips.
评论 #21386267 未加载
评论 #21386047 未加载
评论 #21385987 未加载
评论 #21386055 未加载
voyager2超过 5 年前
When I started washing dishes, minimum wage was $1.50. Hard to get used to inflation of 1000%.
评论 #21386434 未加载
评论 #21386329 未加载
评论 #21386163 未加载
TheMagicHorsey超过 5 年前
I&#x27;m surprised that the natural wage in NYC was not that much already ... given how expensive that place is.<p>I wonder if employment falls as a result of the wage being raised.<p>I have family that runs a maid service business in San Jose. The minumum wage is much lower than $15 and they are already talking about closing up their business. I assume that if the wage is raised to $15 that the business will surely close. Which is sad because the maid service business is already the only source of employment for the women who work there. They aren&#x27;t choosing to work there against other options. Its the only flexible hour work they can get, and they are allowed to keep their kids with them when they work ... which other employers don&#x27;t allow.<p>I&#x27;m sure if given the choice between no work and the maid service work, they&#x27;d probably choose the maid service work. But that choice wouldn&#x27;t be up to them and the employer.
评论 #21389217 未加载
bhupy超过 5 年前
Costs to consumers are up, too. Minimum wage is a way to guarantee a minimum standard of living to employees, but we collectively pay for it through increased prices for goods and services, which disproportionately burdens the poor.<p>The EITC&#x2F;UBI is also a way to guarantee a minimum standard of living, and we collectively pay for that through progressive taxes, the burden for which disproportionately falls on the rich.
评论 #21387426 未加载
diogenescynic超过 5 年前
I don’t think high minimum wages really hurt employment as much as small&#x2F;family business ownership rates since this just increases the startup capital and operating cost needed to run a business. So for some cities the trade off is probably worth it, but this is also why you see the same chains all over and a lot of unique&#x2F;niche stores dying out.
评论 #21386104 未加载
someonehere超过 5 年前
San Francisco is hurting from this aspect and food delivery partnerships. Didn’t read the article but they all blame the minimum raise hike, high rent, and the amount that food delivery services eat out of their bottom line.<p>Many have stated they regretted working with food delivery businesses and would have preferred just serving customers in house.
评论 #21387362 未加载
imtringued超过 5 年前
The problem with minimum wages is that displaced workers who can&#x27;t perform minimum wage work still need the little money they could get from a less than minimum wage job. The government would have to offer a job guarantee that is below minimum wage to cover these people on a case by case basis.
RocketSyntax超过 5 年前
Do small businesses like mom and pop shops pay minimum wage? Just curious who the policy actually impacts.
ankushnarula超过 5 年前
Rebuttal to the New School study: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.minimumwage.com&#x2F;2019&#x2F;08&#x2F;the-new-schools-bogus-analysis-on-nyc-restaurant-growth&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.minimumwage.com&#x2F;2019&#x2F;08&#x2F;the-new-schools-bogus-an...</a>
dplgk超过 5 年前
Ok, revenue is up because they are charging more for products to cover min wage. But is profit up?
评论 #21386382 未加载
rjplatte超过 5 年前
Yeah, NYC is rich as hell. There&#x27;s simply enough cash to go around, so this can work. In my small town, this would kill so many small businesses.
sornaensis超过 5 年前
I don&#x27;t understand why minimum wage isn&#x27;t just increased somewhat quickly over a few years.<p>e.g. 7.25 -&gt; 8.25 -&gt; 10.25 -&gt; 13.25<p>Over a few years to allow businesses to adjust their margins gradually. Increasing the income at the bottom will increase spending, which should be good for businesses like these that are employing low skill&#x2F;pay workers.
评论 #21387306 未加载
评论 #21387684 未加载
Merrill超过 5 年前
&gt;Even a one-time increase of 10% to 15% is unlikely to dissuade large numbers of customers from dining out. That would amount to an extra $1.20 on a $12 burger.<p>On the other hand, an extra $1.20 on a $3.50 burger might dissuade large numbers of customers from dining out. A $12.00 burger is pretty high end in most parts of the country.
评论 #21386559 未加载
robomartin超过 5 年前
Every time I see a discussion about minimum wage I see at least three things:<p>1- You can immediately tell who has experience running a non-trivial business. Let&#x27;s define that as a business that actually makes physical products (not private labeling something someone else makes) and has, say, more than ten employees. People who are not exposed to business mathematics say things that cause any business owner to immediately go for a forehead slap and jaw drop.<p>2- Nobody ever fires-up Excel to do some math before opening their mouths.<p>3- The intense effects of an educational system that has indoctrinated people with the most ridiculous of ideas. These include such things as &quot;corporate greed&quot; and business owners wanting to build a business on top of people &quot;not earning a living wage&quot;. There&#x27;s more. Lots of truly ridiculous ideas.<p>If I haven&#x27;t lost you, read-on, you might just learn something.<p>I was going to put together a quick spreadsheet in an attempt to educate those who might be interested in actually thinking through the problem and, as part of the process, learning something. However, I fear the effort will have few takers. It&#x27;s easier for people to stay with comfortable preconceived notions than to be exposed to mathematical facts that destroy what they&#x27;ve been told. Most people are not interested in learning they are wrong.<p>Instead I found this [0]. It&#x27;s a decent article which exposes the numbers for starting and running a basic restaurant. Anyone with non-trivial business experience has gone through this kind of math many times. After a while you understand the business equation viscerally and know what such things as government-forced costs --be it wages, regulatory or other costs-- can do to a business.<p>Most businesses do not run with huge lavish profit margins. This is certainly true of most restaurants. Competition is such that profits tend to find equilibrium somewhere above zero but certainly not very high above zero, in most cases likely not double-digits. Which means most businesses operate at a very delicate balance on the very edge of financial insolvency if they are not run carefully.<p>Anyhow, if you care to learn and not say things that truly make absolutely no sense whatsoever in the context of the reality, versus the fantasy, of running a business, please read this article, do the math and then do a little more research.<p>As an exercise, take this article and increase your labor costs in steps between 25% and 50%. In this exercise, please explain how you are going to stay in business, what changes you would implement and how these will affect your product, ability to compete with others, ability to survive economic downturns or additional competition (you don&#x27;t get the entire market to yourself) and long term viability of your business.<p>Forced, artificially high minimum wage causes damage to the very people who actually support politicians who push for these populist measures in order to get their votes. It&#x27;s a very destructive force that actually hurts a lot of people rather than help them. The politicians, ironically, actually benefit from pushing for these populist ideas because voters will never do the math and understand they are slitting their own throats. The politician wins elections and continues to make millions atop a very well protected hill while truly doing nothing, or worse, causing harm, to the people they are supposed to help.<p>Don&#x27;t believe me? OK, do the same exercise suggested above and DOUBLE labor costs. If a high minimum wage is so good, well, why not go to $30 per hour then?<p>Another important point: Forcing a hike in minimum wage shifts the entire cost of labor upwards. Why? The person who was making $15 per hour when minimum wage was $10 will demand a raise when the $10 worker starts making $15. So, the $15 worker moves up to $20, the $20 to $25 and so on. It&#x27;s a chain reaction up the labor cost scale with pernicious effect.<p>For a deeper dive into restaurant labor costs, read [1]. You&#x27;ll be surprised to learn how tight the range of labor costs is for different types of operations in order for a restaurant to remain viable.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.7shifts.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;restaurant-costs&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.7shifts.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;restaurant-costs&#x2F;</a><p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.7shifts.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;restaurant-labor-cost&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.7shifts.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;restaurant-labor-cost&#x2F;</a>
not_a_cop75超过 5 年前
I mean 15 dollars an hour might be enough to live in a sewer in New York. It&#x27;s hard to imagine this has a huge affect on anyone.
评论 #21386426 未加载
trentnix超过 5 年前
If raising the minimum wage didn&#x27;t have an adverse affect on revenue and employment, then clearly it&#x27;s time to raise the minimum wage again. Right? Why not $50&#x2F;hr? $100&#x2F;hr?<p>If increases wages increases revenue, why have all of these restaurant owners been damaging their business by paying lower wages?
评论 #21386515 未加载
评论 #21387271 未加载
评论 #21386978 未加载
评论 #21386446 未加载
macspoofing超过 5 年前
The only positive argument that is ever made for minimum wage is that sometimes it does not have a perceivable adverse effect in a strong economy. There is never an attempt to explain the cases where there is a minor or major adverse effect.<p>Even when it doesn&#x27;t noticeably hurt, a minimum wage doesn&#x27;t actually make anything better. It doesn&#x27;t improve poverty rates. It doesn&#x27;t improve employment rates. It doesn&#x27;t lift anybody out of poverty. It has no beneficial, measurable side-effect. And there is plenty of economic research that shows it hurts more than it helps. Just like rent control, it is popular with progressives because it &#x27;feels&#x27; right.<p>&gt;In fact, some people — including those from the Economic Policy Institute — have posited that a minimum-wage increase will actually lead to an increase in employment because of the effects of giving low-wage workers a raise. Other advantages to restaurants may include lower turnover rates and better job performance.<p>Why are we still speculating about this??? We&#x27;ve been studying the impact of minimum wage laws for decades. This is just hopeful thinking by progressives activists.
评论 #21386208 未加载
eigenrick超过 5 年前
Assuming that the min. wage increase has been great for NYC, I fear this would be used as &quot;evidence&quot; that a such a minimum wage would work everywhere in America. NYC is one of the most expensive places in the US to live and work.<p>Meanwhile there are entire diners in America that make $30&#x2F;hr. They do just fine because they pay $200&#x2F;mo in rent. A minimum wage of $15&#x2F;hr would be silly.
评论 #21386543 未加载
program_whiz超过 5 年前
Wow, so by raising to $15, business is booming (guess it increased sales and decreased costs). Why stop at $15?! Lets raise to $200 per hour, and then revenue and employment should be go even higher. Sounds like it doesn&#x27;t affect how much the restaurants are charging customers either, so we don&#x27;t have to worry about that, we can just rest easy knowing we have lifted people from poverty without any tradeoffs to society just by changing one number.
RickJWagner超过 5 年前
For another point of view,<p>&quot;Roughly 77 percent of NYC restaurants have slashed employee hours. Thirty-six percent said they had to layoff employees and 90 percent had to increase prices following the minimum wage hike&quot;<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;nationalinterest.org&#x2F;blog&#x2F;buzz&#x2F;new-york-city%E2%80%99s-15-minimum-wage-now-officially-disaster-71761" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;nationalinterest.org&#x2F;blog&#x2F;buzz&#x2F;new-york-city%E2%80%9...</a>
评论 #21386201 未加载
评论 #21386522 未加载
评论 #21386260 未加载