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Unbundling AWS

331 点作者 taylorwc超过 5 年前

27 条评论

parhamn超过 5 年前
One major thing this doesn&#x27;t consider is the technical limitations which are latency &amp; bandwidth.<p>(1) You save a ton of money on bandwidth when you move data from AWS to AWS<p>(2) Your stack, in most cases, needs to be near each other to minimize latency. Databases get wrecked by this.<p>This is why, cloud database providers have to often transparently show you which cloud you&#x27;re launching on [1] which effectively means AWS is going to get a good share of it anyway. My uninformed guess is that EC2&amp;S3 are by far their biggest money maker which is going to be what unbundlers target.<p>I&#x27;m all for the unbundling and will probably take part in some of it, but I don&#x27;t think it will be that easy.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cockroachlabs.com&#x2F;product&#x2F;cockroachcloud" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cockroachlabs.com&#x2F;product&#x2F;cockroachcloud</a>
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angry_octet超过 5 年前
Once you have significant data on AWS it costs you so much to transfer it you are stuck with them. Their data fees are insane, and so are their storage fees.<p>Also, AWS is slow. If I have a filer with 500TB of disk I should be getting 5-10GiBy&#x2F;s reads, and burst writes should be that fast too. With EFS I get 200MiBy&#x2F;s MAX. Likewise EBS and emphemeral SSDs top out at 250MiBy&#x2F;s, which is just abysmal.<p>AWS security is so complicated now, at the control plane layer, that hardly anyone understands it.<p>So if there was a competitor that gave real hardware performance and a simpler security validation at a reasonable price, they could win business. But I don&#x27;t see Oracle&#x2F;Azure&#x2F;GCP etc doing that.
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streetcat1超过 5 年前
The analogy in the article is wrong. Aws is not a marketplace and does not enjoy network effects.<p>I.e. if developer A uses AWS, this does not affect developer B.<p>What AWS enjoy is economy of scale (huge capex) which should help reduce price (but I am not sure that this is happening), and being first to market (Nobody got fired for choosing IBM).<p>Basically the main value prop today, as I see it, is saving the operation costs (human cost), by offloading them to amazon.<p>This will be solved by Kubernetes operators.<p>Moreover, most of the new computational intensive workload (E.g. IOT &#x2F; AI ) is better done on the edge.
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cocktailpeanuts超过 5 年前
I am all for unbundling AWS, but I think it&#x27;s different from Craigslist.<p>Craigslist is a consumer facing app, which is much easier to &quot;unbundle&quot; than something like AWS which faces enterprises. Even if some &quot;unbundle wannabe&quot; starts getting traction, I think Amazon will simply catch up by lowering the price as much as possible and putting more resources into improving the developer experience for the corresponding service.<p>But if anyone has some great insight, please share. I would love to see this &quot;great unbundling of the AWS&quot; happen.
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dustingetz超过 5 年前
In the tech circles I hang out we think of AWS as the next operating system. In 10-15 years it will be mostly invisible to the application programmer due to abstractions built on top of it. This is a new frontier for startups.
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awinder超过 5 年前
Kind-of alluded to in the article, but if you’re going to unbundle AWS, you’re going to have to figure out how to get the bandwidth 0-rated. One of amazons biggest moats (imo) is that they can realize monumental cost savings on bandwidth while making it very pricy to other service providers. So if you need to architect bandwidth-hungry or “high scale” applications, going outside of AWS becomes way too expensive. Even privatelink tacks on bandwidth charges.<p>You’d have to look at DB providers like Elastic to see how to do this, I think. But it’s going to involve a very complex and high touch deployment &amp; support environment. This effectively “prices out” certain classes of applications as too expensive for value returned. Again I could be looking at this very wrong, and figuring out how to build profitable unbundled AWS services would be a great business, but it’s hard to see how to successfully execute.
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jeswin超过 5 年前
&gt; As an early stage investor, I’m hard-pressed to name any tectonic shifts that have had as much impact on startup formation.<p>Gross exaggeration. Most startups should worry less about 100% uptime and scaling than about sales. A dedicated server or two goes a long way, and it isn&#x27;t&#x2F;wasn&#x27;t really that much harder.
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jorblumesea超过 5 年前
&gt; some of their offerings shift from being best-in-class to being very reliable and with a ‘just-ok-but-well-integrated’ user experience.<p>I would go further and say that some of their experiences are buggy and often non-functional. Ever tried to search for a service in ECS? The results load from the backend, and it&#x27;s a <i>frontend based search on the backend set</i>. Meaning it will say your service does not exist, but you&#x27;re only searching on that page * offset.<p>Then there&#x27;s the Elastisearch fiasco... <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;spun.io&#x2F;2019&#x2F;10&#x2F;10&#x2F;aws-elasticsearch-a-fundamentally-flawed-offering&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;spun.io&#x2F;2019&#x2F;10&#x2F;10&#x2F;aws-elasticsearch-a-fundamentally...</a><p>There are many examples where basic AWS functionality is broken.
spicyramen超过 5 年前
One missing point is the support for customers and partners. AWS and Azure provide amazing support experience which emulates and improve what Cisco, HP, IBM did in the Enterprise space many years before: TAC, Forums, certifications, partner ecosystem. When you have an issue someone will actually respond to it. I was interested in Google Cloud but their support was non-existent, seems to be that their leadership came from the consumer world where a person is just dumb and their product is always perfect. Specifically I had an issue with Firebase which I found the answer on Stackoverflow eventually (app was down for few hours because Google blacklist my environment by mistake). Since my company relies on high availability, we needed to work from day 0 with AWS on the design and have a person which would be available to respond to queries directly. Looks like with new Google CEO that&#x27;s changing but just cares about large enterprises . With that in mind AWS and Azure to me will become a binary option.
MuffinFlavored超过 5 年前
A 1GB hosted Redis instance is $40&#x2F;mo on Azure (which I’m told is competitive with AWS&#x2F;GCP) yet a “bare-metal” instance with 1GB of memory (in which you can configure to run Redis yourself) is $5&#x2F;mo.<p>Are all hosted infrastructure prices this inflated?
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overgard超过 5 年前
A lot of the value of AWS is its integration within itself. (even if it can be full of rough edges). I think the danger with unbundling is that your competing project needs to be clearly so much better that people are going to be willing to go through the hassle of configuring a lot of complicated networking to work with what they already have, along with separate billing etc. Not saying it can&#x27;t be done, but it means the barrier to entry is really really high. You&#x27;re not just convincing them your service is better, you&#x27;re also convincing them that it&#x27;s so much better that they should be willing to take on extra headaches for it.<p>If I were to compete with aws, I think the area I&#x27;d really go after them with is better kubernetes support. I&#x27;ve yet to see any cloud provider really do it well, to be honest (which isn&#x27;t surprising, development on kubernetes moves so fast and it&#x27;s so advanced, it&#x27;s kind of amazing, but that does mean it&#x27;s really hard to make it nice outside of a &quot;works for a demo&quot; kind of deal). Azure and GCP do kubernetes a little bit better, but I think if someone were to come in and say, like, I don&#x27;t know, we can do kubernetes on bare metal so it&#x27;s much faster than through a VM, and all our services are natively integrated, that would be a cool story.<p>The other area I might compete with AWS is in finding niches where organizations might be hesitant to build an operations department, but they really need cloud computing. So, for instance, maybe scientific computing or something like that. If you could make a really useful cloud that can be administered by someone who barely knows linux, that could be a thing.
cj超过 5 年前
Hm, I don’t think the craigslist analogy works.<p>For the same reason it’s difficult to argue there’s opportunity for “unbundling Facebook” by launching a new image sharing service, building a news aggregator to compete with newsfeed, building a new messaging app to compete with Messenger, etc.<p>The main reason I disagree with the premise is security &#x2F; compliance requirements of large customers (a large percentage of the market). The largest purchasers of AWS-like services prefer to work with as few vendors as necessary to minimize the number of vendors they need to worry about during security audits, contracting, etc.<p>The other obvious problem is, similar to Facebook, AWS has a “network effect”, in that all AWS services live in the same physical data centers, which results in potentially competing services suffering from higher latency than “native AWS” services which might make it harder to compete.<p>Consumers did not have the same level of loyalty to Craigslist as business have to AWS.
buboard超过 5 年前
LAMP was a simple stack. It was performant, and not bloated. That&#x27;s why 1000 different datacenters could provide the same service. Are there such sub-bundles in AWS that are cheap enough to run without amazon&#x27;s scale ? Do people even need that huge scaling capability or is AWS just convenient?
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chx超过 5 年前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;br_&#x2F;status&#x2F;979442438254166016" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;br_&#x2F;status&#x2F;979442438254166016</a><p>&gt; &quot;selling AWS at a loss&quot; is crisp shorthand for a lot of startups&#x27; business models!
jpalomaki超过 5 年前
It is usually easier to dump costs to the already hefty AWS bill than push a completely new service provider through procurement process.
ksec超过 5 年前
How does the Unbundling work if the Services you are Unbundling runs on AWS?<p>I dont understand how Craglist and AWS relates? Craglist.... is a .. list or a market place. AWS is literally like a Fortune 2000 business that is in itself fully vertically integrated from Hardware to Software and Network.<p>And then you have economy of scale, and Good enough is enemy of Best. The barrier of Entry to recreate Craglist is less than a rounding error in recreating AWS or even any part of its sub component.<p>I dont have any numbers to back me up on this, so take this with the biggest grain of salt. I do think there is a Market for provider that sits underneath AWS or GCP, something like DigitalOcean. AWS or GCP are like Enterprise product with millions of features being offered to all, while DO is like a simple to use product that is scaling up its feature offering. And it offers the essential of Cloud Hosting with Better experience. ( Comparatively Speaking )<p>Or Heroku with their own Infrastructure, ( or Cheaper Pricing )
bassamtabbara超过 5 年前
I made a similar argument [1][2] about tipping the cloud computing market from vertical to horizontal integration. One important aspect of this transformation is to maintain the feel of an integrated cloud provider, and not let the customer&#x2F;end-user deal with the cost of heterogeneity [3].<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=GOssXrkNYxM" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=GOssXrkNYxM</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;speakerdeck.com&#x2F;bassam&#x2F;opening-up-the-cloud-with-crossplane" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;speakerdeck.com&#x2F;bassam&#x2F;opening-up-the-cloud-with-cro...</a><p>[3] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;crossplane.io" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;crossplane.io</a>
vegardx超过 5 年前
There&#x27;s definitively a market for unbundling services from Amazon, but the problem is that people forget what the actual killer feature of AWS is; IAM and Instance Metadata Service.
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0xkalle超过 5 年前
Small note: I wouldn&#x27;t count the serverless framework as cloud agnostic. Yes you can use the framework for all major clouds but you have to adjust your project for that. Serverless does not abstract the events, function context or other service APIs which would be needed if it would be really cloud agnostic = you can deploy your project to different providers without changes.
arikrak超过 5 年前
Craigslist didn&#x27;t try to improve their product which left me opportunity for other startups than there would have been otherwise.
yellow_lead超过 5 年前
&gt; There are obvious differences between Craigslist and AWS. The most important is that Craigslist (and each of the category spawn) is a marketplace, and so has the powerful advantage of network effects.<p>Isn&#x27;t AWS also a marketplace?
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EGreg超过 5 年前
Most profits are obtained by bundling closed-source or costly infrastructure together with stuff that is cheap but inseparable from it, so you can extract rents.<p>That’s why open source unleashes an explosion in innovation.
awinter-py超过 5 年前
author&#x27;s focus on datadog &amp; metrics tools as the place to innovate is a smart way in<p>in particular, declarative dashboards (from code) and declarative alerts (from code) would make my life a lot easier<p>feedback-based &#x2F; ML alerting thresholds might also hit the spot -- this is an area where black box isn&#x27;t safe enough and some innovation is needed<p>getting any piece of information from datadog or amzn &#x2F; goog&#x27;s in-house dashboards is like pulling teeth -- they&#x27;re <i>so</i> slow and clunky
dana321超过 5 年前
AWS is expensive for what it is. I really don&#x27;t understand the hype machine around what they provide, since openstack has been around for a few years.
jakozaur超过 5 年前
1. AWS got business advantage of buying 100+ services at once, without going through procurement, invoicing, GDPR Data Processing Agreements, on&#x2F;off boarding, same support, good security and uptime, credibility of keeping backward compatibility for decades etc.<p>There should be open platform that would eliminate that advantage.<p>2. EC2 and S3 when used properly would be harder to beat. You can get reserved discounts, spot, elasticity... Moving them would require paying for bandwidth which easily makes playing field uneven.<p>3. The higher layer of services CloudWatch, ElasticSearch, Cognito got much higher margins, yet lacking functionality and quality. Much easier targets for disruption.
hartror超过 5 年前
I&#x27;ve not come across the term JAMstack before, why doesn&#x27;t this make sense for using with AWS as the author suggests?
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noway421超过 5 年前
another point: you don&#x27;t pay for services you don&#x27;t use, so AWS is not &quot;bundled&quot; to begin with. you get to pick and choose. in such a model, i don&#x27;t see any benefit in fragmentation tbh.