TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

Is true hacking dead? What we lost

255 点作者 Impossible超过 5 年前

40 条评论

ChuckMcM超过 5 年前
I don&#x27;t think true hacking is dead, its just lost in a sea of non-hacking.<p>The number of students who could write code in my high school of 2000 was perhaps 35. Those 35 were amazing because they had to work to get access to a computer, so we had already eliminated everyone who was just &quot;oh that&#x27;s too hard&quot;. Of the 35 perhaps a dozen kept at it beyond one class in BASIC.<p>In my daughter&#x27;s similarly sized highschool 400 to 500 of the students had some proficiency in writing code, and perhaps 200 had the motivation to keep at it on a serious level after graduation. Of those, perhaps a dozen were people who I would equate to the &#x27;hackers&#x27; that we had at my high school.<p>This led me to conclude that its a small fraction of the population that has what I think of as the &#x27;compulsive puzzle&#x27; gene. That is they find themselves driven to solve puzzles which they understand must have a solution.<p>There are ways to identify them. If you have the ability to give puzzles, leave some around to be found. Watch for the ones who solve them.<p>In the world where &#x27;everyone is a coder&#x27; though it is super easy to not see them.
评论 #21681063 未加载
评论 #21681485 未加载
评论 #21681385 未加载
评论 #21682291 未加载
评论 #21681344 未加载
评论 #21683660 未加载
评论 #21682499 未加载
评论 #21684489 未加载
评论 #21687748 未加载
评论 #21684348 未加载
peteforde超过 5 年前
There was a time when I used to fret that the era of tinkering was coming to an end. Crypto was going to be illegal, they were going to put DRM on speakers, and our computers are designed to be completely locked down to the degree that you can&#x27;t even add more RAM to a MacBook Pro.<p>However, I think that the rise of Linux, Raspberry Pi and Arduino, OSS and Github and massive package repos for every language, Adafruit, even 3D printers have replaced stuff that didn&#x27;t want to be hacked with an endless array of stuff that is literally begging to be hacked. Between YouTube and coding bootcamps, you have to actively not want to learn technical skills.<p>The author also calls out Unity as part of the problem, which pretty much confirms to me that we&#x27;re not reading advanced analysis. Unity is fucking incredible; not only is it an engineering marvel with cross-platform compilation capacity that makes Babel look like a total joke, but it is probably the single most capable, interesting and fun platform for artistic expression in modern computing.<p>Seriously, the way to get kids to keep interested once Scratch gets dull is to throw them into a AAA 3D engine that lets you build a compelling VR creation in an hour from free, downloadable assets. Unity should be in high school classrooms. The breadth and quality of assets available on their store is shocking. If you have artist&#x27;s block, just scroll through a few pages of assets. Problem solved.<p>I think what really got to me was the overwhelming sense that the author wasn&#x27;t talking about hacking but recreating the exact same conditions that existed when he was a young person... while completely ignoring the huge amounts of privilege that he enjoyed to be able to have a computer in the house and have such a incredible headstart on his learning compared to the other 99.99% of the population - many of whom don&#x27;t look like him or believe the same things.<p>Today, even relatively poor kids have access to tablets which means that they can build games in apps like Roblox. Who makes him the authority on what counts as hacking? If a young woman makes a game where her friends all want to hang out together after school and talk about their lives in a safe space, isn&#x27;t that the ultimate hack?<p>I really didn&#x27;t enjoy this op-ed, and I wish people wouldn&#x27;t bring it a larger audience by posting on HN.
评论 #21680849 未加载
评论 #21681008 未加载
评论 #21681569 未加载
评论 #21680837 未加载
评论 #21681605 未加载
评论 #21682145 未加载
评论 #21682532 未加载
评论 #21680842 未加载
评论 #21683702 未加载
评论 #21682043 未加载
javajosh超过 5 年前
If you define hacking as gaining access to scarce compute resources, then yes, hacking is dead because <i>compute scarcity is dead</i>.<p>If you define hacking as controlling your computer hardware at the lowest level, then hacking is dead because <i>no-one wants to write device drivers</i>.<p>If you define hacking as *making the lights blink in interesting ways&quot;[1] then hacking is incredibly, richly, and totally alive! You can make the lights blink in so many interesting ways!<p>To sum up, that&#x27;s one really good change, one somewhat unfortunate but understandable change, and another really incredibly good change. (BTW I don&#x27;t think the OP&#x27;s point about complex OSS really fits in this particular essay - minimalism is important topic and deserves it&#x27;s own essay, but it&#x27;s not related to hacking, IMHO).<p>[1] I don&#x27;t recall where I read this, but Feynman wrote about being involved with the Manhattan project, with the simulations they were trying to run on very early, primitive computers, and how one or two scientists put on that part of the project had to be replaced because they got too fascinated with the &quot;blinking lights&quot; to get any work done. I find this anecdote very easy to believe.
评论 #21681625 未加载
评论 #21681283 未加载
评论 #21683087 未加载
评论 #21681505 未加载
rs23296008n1超过 5 年前
Hackers were like the hotrodders before. Here&#x27;s a thing. Make it work. Make it faster. Improve it. Change it. Know how it works. Master it.<p>I don&#x27;t think its died. Its more likely morphed into something you don&#x27;t recognise because its always been dynamic and now you&#x27;re attempting to apply a static definition. Then you get frustrated or lament &quot;its not the same as in the good old days&quot;. But the reality is that people are tinkering right now with the new tech or the new thing in ways you don&#x27;t even know about.<p>This is definitely the case with cars, computers, electronics, gardening, clothes, food etc etc. Gardening, clothes? Why did I include those?! &quot;Thats not hacking!&quot; People are tinkering with these things. Making them better. Making them their own.<p>Hacking was never just bits and bytes. Learn how this puzzle works. Change it. Make your own. That hasn&#x27;t stopped.
评论 #21681092 未加载
KaiserPro超过 5 年前
Sounds like gatekeeping to me.<p>Hacking of yore largely was like theoretical maths. Isolated from the real world and of little practicable use, yet.<p>It was a closed eco system in the 70s-90s. You either had to steal or be rich to get access to a machine.<p>Yes, real steel from the likes of DEC, IBM, ICL et al were magic. The early days of networked OSs equally wonderful.<p>But.<p>Now, with an ESP I can have a battery powered, wirelessly networked computer to do pretty much anything I want, for $10 and power budget of 100ma.<p>If you want to see where low lever hacking has gone, look at the micro-controllers. They are literally taking over the world, run by no small part, by keen amateurs.
评论 #21686274 未加载
atq2119超过 5 年前
I&#x27;ve never understood the appeal of hot-patching and full process image save and restore. Yes, this technology is neat for <i>some</i> use cases, but as a fundamental way of computing it&#x27;s broken, because it throws reproducibility out of the window. Reproducibility is <i>everything</i> in complex systems, and being able to reset and start fresh is powerful.<p>Evolution figured that out as well. It&#x27;s why basically all species propagate via the birth of new individuals and the death of the old ones.
评论 #21681193 未加载
评论 #21681810 未加载
评论 #21683381 未加载
pjmlp超过 5 年前
&gt; Even the Demoscene, one of the last bastions of true hackerism, is completely uninterested in the ideology of software licenses and contracts.<p>Demoscene never cared about this kind of stuff.<p>In fact of the interesting challenges of the Demoscene was trying to find out how competing groups achieved some demos, without having access to the said information, while in process outperforming their demos at parties.<p>This is one of the key differences between Demoscene and anything FOSS related.<p>And also why game developers as offsprings from Demoscene, also don&#x27;t care about them, rather about IP and how to extract the best experience out of a given piece of hardware, regardless of the OS, API or NDAs that one has to go through.
评论 #21681876 未加载
评论 #21681983 未加载
pleasecalllater超过 5 年前
Three things:<p>1. I have no idea why &quot;hacking&quot; aka &quot;going fast and breaking things&quot; is so glorified while &quot;building good reliable programs&quot; aka &quot;good programming&quot; is not.<p>2. How come that someone thinks of himself&#x2F;herself that he&#x2F;she has the right to say who is a &quot;true hacker&quot; and who is not.<p>3. AND THIS: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=LX5Xy3a2uJU" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=LX5Xy3a2uJU</a> Thank you Jayson.
评论 #21680889 未加载
评论 #21681448 未加载
评论 #21680767 未加载
评论 #21681168 未加载
评论 #21681099 未加载
评论 #21682800 未加载
japhyr超过 5 年前
It feels like the word &quot;hacking&quot; is losing more and more meaning over time.<p>In the beginning it was a word only people heavily into computers used. Then around the time of War Games it became a more commonly-known word, and connotated breaking in. Over the last couple decades more people became aware that hacking sometimes refers to building technical projects. But it still has a heavy connotation of breaking into a system or program.<p>Hacking became cool once hackers started getting rich and gaining prominence in society. My son is 8, and many of his friends think they&#x27;re hackers when they use a cheat code on a game. Most of them know they&#x27;re not writing code and really changing the game, but they all want to think of themselves as hackers so they say they&#x27;re hacking their games. Very few of them even really know what a line of code looks like yet.<p>Any notion of &quot;true&quot; hacking is bound to be about putting walls up to say who&#x27;s in and who&#x27;s out. In reality, there are always people building new things, and there are always people trying to break into systems and programs.
评论 #21680787 未加载
mark_l_watson超过 5 年前
Nice ideas. I think that complexity can be the enemy of “hackability.”<p>Some environments like Pharo Smalltalk are simple enough to dig down to see how stuff works, and I would add simple Lisp implementations.<p>When I first started using Ruby and Rails, I kept the source code to Ruby and for Rails available for perusal and it was more or less understandable. Not so much now. Complexity.<p>I think that the Racket ecosystem will get more hackable once the codebase sits on top of Chez Scheme. Racket is well documented: 18 months ago I wanted to import trained weights and biases from a trained Keras&#x2F;TensorFlow model into Racket and implement a runtime - fairly easy to do with good documentation and good library support for fast linear algebra.<p>Too bad that more people don’t spend more effort on hacking activities because really understanding tools, modifying code, etc. is fun and I would argue a good career move.<p>EDIT: added 1 word for clarity
crankylinuxuser超过 5 年前
So, what does C0DE517E think hacking is? I&#x27;m surprised nobody picked up on it...<p>2&#x2F;3s of the way down is a link (by the way - wanna see something weird?). That link goes to [0] which is about &#x27;Dark Enlightenment&#x27;. The key takeaways here are: democracy is bad, white people are smarter, Urbit, and Yarvin. But surely someone can link without advocating?<p>And then we get to this bit, &quot;Whatever the causes, we have software and hardware systems that strive to be entirely open, yet time and again are closed ones that are more accessible in practice, that drive social revolutions.&quot; The author is making a roundabout case for the Dark Enlightenment, and ecosystems like Urbit which enforce a neo-serfdom and elimination of democracy at a technological scale.<p>I&#x27;m surprised nobody else picked up on who this person thinks hackers <i>are</i>. It&#x27;s certainly hidden in plain sight.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;breakermag.com&#x2F;heres-the-dark-enlightenment-explainer-you-never-wanted&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;breakermag.com&#x2F;heres-the-dark-enlightenment-explaine...</a>
评论 #21690031 未加载
leipert超过 5 年前
I assume there is the same amount of “true” hackers out there. At least that is my impression from the Chaos Communication Congress and alike. Probably the percentage of “true” hackers is way smaller now as computers became cheap and more accessible. If you look at the “great and true hackers” from the 80s and before, most of them probably come from academia, government agencies or wealthy backgrounds.<p>I for one welcome the change, because I think the entry barrier to become a “true” hacker is probably the same as before, if not easier and we definitely opened the doors for more people.
adjkant超过 5 年前
Ignoring defining what &quot;true hacking&quot; is defined as, I&#x27;m struggling to pinpoint exactly what has been lost here. Many new things have come into existence, but this feels like a list of laments against the direction technology grew, not something lost. Plenty of people are still tinkerers focused on making small personal projects, and if anything its highest concentration is here on HN. That doesn&#x27;t mean all of the other things in the tech world are inherently lacking in value though. When focusing on technology why focus on &quot;hacking&quot;, a somewhat odd and specific use case as defined here?
majewsky超过 5 年前
Other people have already commented on the core message. I have a nitpick instead:<p>&gt; That&#x27;s probably why we still have textual source (great for git and merging) over more expressive formats or even the old idea of serializing the entire state of a VM (again lisp, smalltalk) which sacrifices merging entirely to make hotpatching (dynamic software updates) trivial.<p>Good. Not being able to merge squarely belongs in the past, where everyone had access to only one machine. I&#x27;m incredibly thankful that I can merge the half-finished work on my desktop from last evening with the patches that I just pushed from my notebook while in the train.
评论 #21682443 未加载
erikpukinskis超过 5 年前
We’re still here. More than ever actually. There’s just more noise.
评论 #21681043 未加载
kart23超过 5 年前
Graduated high school a couple years ago. Plenty of people coded, but I had only had one friend that actually was interested in doing more with computers. We found some pretty cool stuff on the school network, and ways to screw with our less tech-savvy friends. It even cost me a trip to the principal&#x27;s office one time, due to my stupidity and inexperience.<p>I guess I&#x27;m not part of the right forums or boards, but I just haven&#x27;t been able to find other people with that same kind of passion. I know I could and should just get started by myself, but I&#x27;m the type of person that just loses motivation and the will to keep working if I dont have someone else by my side. And I go to a UC. Sure plenty of people know a bit of linux and networking, but how many people actually want to go past their classes and actually take the time to research and learn more? It&#x27;s hard to find those people. As a result, I&#x27;m moving away from hacking into more normal spaces like appdev and web stuff. Its definitely not as exciting, and I dont think I&#x27;ll ever again feel that thrill of being called to the principal&#x27;s office for hacking.
评论 #21681297 未加载
评论 #21685681 未加载
AnnoyingSwede超过 5 年前
TL;DR: Hacking is more alive then ever.<p>I might be missing the point of his article, but describing the c64 basic coding movement as a single movement is misunderstanding it gravely. The fact that Basic was licensed by Microsoft didn&#x27;t stop us, it was the the default interpreter we had to programming, which soon was replaced by masm&#x2F;tasm or machine code.<p>More so then than today, hackers of all kinds (hackers, crackers, phreakers) were all following their own individual paths and was way less uniformed than todays movements. I believe the main reason most are focusing on OSS today was because of the dis-content we felt with the development of operating systems that slowly but surely locked us in as users.
steven741超过 5 年前
Moving past the &quot;no true scott&#x27;s man&quot; fallacy of the title; i feel that this article confuses the act of being a hacker with the tools that people use to hack with. Which is a common thing to do when a concept is new. For me, being a hacker means being able to work at a certain level of abstraction and, not being afraid to &quot;open up the box&quot; and start working at that level of abstraction. For example, being able to work with a raspberry pi loaded with linux and, then being able to start hacking at the linux kernel or libraries when needed is what makes someone a hacker.
评论 #21685225 未加载
pontifier超过 5 年前
In some sense, I think that there is something of a tragedy of plenty happening in the maker&#x2F;hacker community. When options were few, you had dense groups with deep knowledge about different hackable technologies. The abundance of options, while good in general, limits the usefulness of that kind of deep knowledge in favor of a broader kind of knowledge.<p>How many ways are there to blink a light or read a potentiometer? Expanding on a simple project can take hundreds of different paths depending on your hardware and software stack.<p>It&#x27;s not dead, it&#x27;s just adapting to the current landscape of abundance.
ggggtez超过 5 年前
It&#x27;s kind of funny. The post thinks wistfully about the &quot;real&quot; hackers that wanted everyone to have access to computers. But that already happened. So is it any wonder that no one really cares about that ideology any more?<p>&gt; [they are] completely uninterested in the ideology of software licenses and contracts.<p>Sure, but who cares exactly? Isn&#x27;t an interest in legal nuances of contracts rather orthagonal to &quot;hacking&quot;?<p>&gt;Linux didn&#x27;t change the desktop, nor the way software is made.<p>Here, I&#x27;ll just flat out disagree. I think saying this is rather blind to history.
Annatar超过 5 年前
&quot;We buy cars and go to mechanics, right? We don&#x27;t know how to peek inside the engines anymore.&quot;<p>I don&#x27;t know which world you live in, but it sure isn&#x27;t mine! Even at the height of working as a senior system engineer &#x2F; technical architect in the heart of Silicon Valley, I regularly wrenched on my car; I even found a self-wrench shop near the Tesla factory in Fremont. In fact I just wrenched on my car this past weekend. I wrench on all my cars. How could I call myself an engineer without understanding what I use?
acoye超过 5 年前
Maybe &quot;old school hacking&quot; is still present in the &quot;maker&quot; movement. For the pragmatic, practical hands on approach I mean.
stebann超过 5 年前
Hacking is not dead, but it has become complex because you have to deal with many layers of abstraction. In fact, we have to deal with complex concepts, implementations with different layers of complexity, more protocols... so the knowledge to hack something goes beyond that, because you have to understand how something works, maybe completely, to add something novel to it.
luord超过 5 年前
The point of this article is all the harder to see because there isn&#x27;t even a definition of what &quot;hacker&quot; means to the author.<p>There are many different definitions. If one subscribes to, say, Eric Raymond&#x27;s, then there are many more hackers today and hacking itself is more prevalent than ever.
_nalply超过 5 年前
Hacking has changed.<p>I tinker with a homegrown family information and media center with a dis-used Gigabyte BRIX behind an old flat screen running Linux and chromium-browser in kiosk mode. I bought a NES style USB gamepad and use it to make things show. It&#x27;s a hobby, but it turned out to be nice.<p>For me that&#x27;s hacking.
zekrioca超过 5 年前
Were early hackings done by &quot;fairly despicable a-social people&quot;? Maybe I did not get this.
Ocerge超过 5 年前
Maybe, but programming now provides a stable income for way more people, whether it&#x27;s their passion or not. In this day in age, the ability to put food on the table trumps any sort of bit-banging nostalgia IMO. The fewer gates we keep, the better.
erikbye超过 5 年前
Speaking of books on hackers, I can recommend Cult of the Dead Cow: How the Original Hacking Supergroup Might Just Save the World. I enjoyed it thoroughly despite the title.<p>Did you know Beto O&#x27;Rourke was a member?
brain5ide超过 5 年前
True hacking is only for true Scotsmen.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;No_true_Scotsman" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;No_true_Scotsman</a>
al_form2000超过 5 年前
&lt;&lt;I don&#x27;t mean that we should not be political in our actions, today.&gt;&gt;<p>Y not?<p>&lt;&lt;...early hacking was a-political is because hackers were fairly despicable a-social people.&gt;&gt;<p>That is what made it fun.
soufron超过 5 年前
Did it ever existed to begin with? The myth begun with &quot;Hackers: Heroes of the Computer Revolution&quot; from Steven Levy in 1984, and it was mainly propaganda.
ddtaylor超过 5 年前
Does anyone else get a &quot;no true scotsman&quot; vibe?
mscasts超过 5 年前
What exactly is &quot;true&quot; hacking and how does it differ from &quot;normal&quot; hacking?
bregma超过 5 年前
A hacker is someone who clicks on <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sparkfun.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sparkfun.com&#x2F;</a> and doesn&#x27;t come up for air for at least an hour. Can you pass the test?
whatitdobooboo超过 5 年前
I didn&#x27;t personally get the sense that the author was reminiscing about the past. I just thought of it more as what he thinks is a lack of ambition and vision in computing today in ways that will solve larger problems rather than going with the closed environments that are available today.<p>tldr; Maybe having an open plane with few imaginative restrictions (as early computing did) allows one to rethink certain patterns we assume as truth today. For example, if no one is working on a new OS because of Linux, Windows - could that be worse for the world in the long run?
mulle_nat超过 5 年前
Enter Firefox, press CTRL-SHIFT-I. It&#x27;s pretty much all there.
thrax超过 5 年前
Git webgl
ww520超过 5 年前
Yes. It’s dead. Killed by money.
tus88超过 5 年前
&gt; The sad and inspiring story of TempleOS, a.k.a. what the Raspberry Pi should have been.<p>Eh?
评论 #21680685 未加载
评论 #21680642 未加载
评论 #21681261 未加载
评论 #21680593 未加载
sebow超过 5 年前
A hacker is motivated to hack great software&#x2F;systems.(Hacking in the &quot;modern&quot; sense has been more about software than hardware, since not as many people have the resources to tinker around with hardware,potentially breaking in the process).<p>I would argue the reason why hacking has kind of &quot;died&quot; is because of the massive amounts of garbage software that gets put out.<p>On top of that, hacking isn&#x27;t actually dead,it just kind of moved in the shadows.(This has been de facto true after the 2012 &quot;era of big-brother revelations&quot;, and shortly when the &quot;big figures&quot; of hacking have jailed.)<p>I&#x27;d say firstly modern hackers have to always adapt by &quot;working twice as hard&quot; while having the &quot;penetrating&quot; mindset towards software that becomes increasingly harder to penetrate(through different techniques,which CS has developed firstly at theoretical then practical levels). Secondly,software developers now usually work in groups and are incentivized by money.Even if they&#x27;re less skilled individually, together they manage to create harder software to penetrate.<p>However,this &quot;brothership&quot; in the hacking community is very hard to acquire,because 90% of the time it is motivated by something other than money: ethics,sense of justice, etc.(What i subjectively consider a &quot;hacker&quot; isn&#x27;t someone who &quot;hacks&quot; an ATM by putting a cloning device on a facade)<p>On top of this,you add the fact that governments try to gain more and more control over the internet and all-things computing, punishing people who &quot;legally deserved it&quot; but did the society a favor(Snowden,Assange,etc. basically any leak that has been &quot;proven true&quot; but the means of acquiring information left the boot-lickers unsatisfied).<p>On the bright side, i wouldn&#x27;t exactly say hacking is dead,it&#x27;s just that the computing sphere is changing so fast, it leaves hackers undecided.Some people don&#x27;t even bother when in the relatively short future we&#x27;ll probably see the &quot;downfall&quot; of classical computing as we know it.