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The Siege of Carrie Lam

187 点作者 raleighm超过 5 年前

12 条评论

kenneth超过 5 年前
(For context — am an expat living in HK.)<p>Living in HK the last few months has been frustrating for me, primarily because of growing spread of misinformation and the untrustworthy reporting on the situation. It&#x27;s getting hard to know what information to believe, and that&#x27;s even for myself living here, who has seen all of it from my own eyes. How could you expect anyone reading the news or social media from a foreign country to be reacting to valid information?<p>The western media is making it sound like Hong Kong is Syria. Protester private channels makes wild unfounded claims about mass-scale executions and rapes. Chinese media makes it sound like HK is under siege by terrorists. SCMP&#x27;s reporting is increasingly suspiciously lacking and pro-establishment. The government is entirely untrustworthy and straight up lying about everything and anything.<p>There are a few people doing good work (e.g. OSINT HK), but it&#x27;s not enough to rise about the noise drowning it all out.<p>Of course the real situation is more nuanced. It&#x27;s also all entirely pointless, with no hope for de-escalation or positive resolution.<p>That said, it&#x27;s also not nearly as dramatic and disrupting to daily life as you&#x27;d expect. Living in HK is still far safer than in downtown San Francisco (or anywhere in the US for that matter). For those wishing to stay out of it, avoiding protests is fairly easy (I mean — unless you live in Mong Kong or Prince Edward). The handful of times I ended up right in the middle of it, nobody really cared to bother any bystanders.<p>The government seems to be on a mission to do anything in its power to make things worse, from repeatedly escalating the situation through violence, inflammatory policy, and generally being a party-pooper and cancelling all ordinary celebrations (e.g. Halloween).<p>Today, walking down the street in Sai Ying Pun, I observed workers replacing the wooden paneling they&#x27;ve been installing in front of the mainland Chinese banks to protect them from the thrashings with welded metal paneling. It was somewhat of a sign that they&#x27;re getting ready for this to continue in the long term.
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mamborambo超过 5 年前
The hopeless situation of Carrie Lam fronting the CCP and having to execute its policy, is what drove Hong Kong into the people&#x27;s revolution of 2019. Under the CCP, local administrators do not need ideas, just obedience. Carrie Lam&#x27;s misfortune was to be sandwiched between the increasing paranoia of Xi Jin Ping, and the increasing rebelliousness of HKers, and she has no strategy to resolve the two forces.<p>Except she could have chosen to take the HKer&#x27;s side. She is after all a HK citizen and its representative even without true election. Seven million rebels can parallelize a city, but pissing off a few thousand bureaucrats in the politburo simply leads to tantrums and rhetorics. If she had done that, HK&#x27;s economy would not have stalled, HKers would rally behind her, and the whole Two System debate could be channelled into a consultation process that can remain civil and reasonable.<p>HKers will not forgive her for her missteps and police brutality that led to thousands of arrested and hundreds of maimed&#x2F;injured&#x2F;raped&#x2F;dead. That will always be her legacy.<p>But HKers can thank her incompetence for triggering the nationalistic feeling of a Hongkonger. The city of immigrants and world refugees has never been so clearly in sync, and the common enemy so in focus.
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sumgame超过 5 年前
‘ No one on either side of the conflict , then or now, has a satisfactory theory of why Carrie Lam won’t form an independent inquiry into police violence, the demand that is the emotional core of the protests.’<p>Does China have anything to loose with an independent inquiry into police violence ?<p>The Hong Kong situation is still quite baffling. I initially thought that the emotional motivation was independence. But it seems like that’s not the crux of the issue
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irjustin超过 5 年前
Best of luck to the HK people. I called it home for better part of 2 years. I lived in Wan Chai on Hennessy rd near the computer center.<p>Plenty of atrocities committed - people being shipped off in train cars reminiscent of pre-WWII photos that I have only learned about in school.<p>Best wishes.<p>[EDIT] I agree I should have said alleged atrocities. Sadly, hardly anyone left in HK is impartial but hopefully independent enough investigations are opened.<p>To the trains - I was referring to this I saw a few weeks ago: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;HongKong&#x2F;comments&#x2F;dxz3xd&#x2F;transporting_prisoners_by_train_potentially&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;HongKong&#x2F;comments&#x2F;dxz3xd&#x2F;transporti...</a><p>It is not a good look loading anyone in trains who is captive. True, we don&#x27;t know where they&#x27;re headed, could be fine - it&#x27;s a bad look given the situation.
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ng12超过 5 年前
I&#x27;m not sure I buy the argument that Lam is just a bumbling politician failing to deal with a crisis when she&#x27;s backed by the most powerful authoritarian regime in the world.
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anm89超过 5 年前
It&#x27;s really sad to say but a vicious fight, even with no endgame seems to be the only sensible move for the Hong Kong people at this point.<p>At least, if they get pummeled, in the end, it will be extremely clear that whatever happened was not consensual and will set them up to fight another round down the line.
iandinwoodie超过 5 年前
Off topic, but the site creator should really toss Bruce Mahalski some credit for his image they are using as their logo.
Merrill超过 5 年前
The CCP is probably content to let the HK situation continue to fester. The economic role of HK relative to the PRC will continue to wane. HK will continue to be portrayed as an object lesson in the dysfunction of democracy. The CCP can assert control whenever it needs to by simply turning off the water and electrical supply.
battleangle超过 5 年前
The Hong Kong situation is much more complicated than mainstream media outside Hong Kong would like the world to believe, but that goes without saying.<p>The issue with the current HK government at the end of the day is that Carrie Lam is a second rate administrator and is wildly unqualified for handling the current situation in HK. Worse yet, she has one of the worst cabinets &#x2F; teams ever assembled (you would need to be familiar with local HK politics to know this). In other words, HK couldn&#x27;t have had a worse group to lead the city at this point in time.<p>Having said that, Carrie is completely reliant on the police force at this stage. There is no way she agrees to an independent inquiry or any major moves against the police. At least not right now.<p>I&#x27;d say that the independent inquriy may be something that can be compromised on at some point. But universal suffrage is out of the question, and demands 3 and 4 would never be accepted by the rest of Hong Kong nor would any reasonable person accept it given what has taken place since the original protests. In fact one of the key issues is that &quot;the protest&quot; isn&#x27;t just one unified movement that has been moving forward since its inception.
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metabork超过 5 年前
Are there any good reasons to support the take that the extradition law was Lam&#x27;s own initiative and not pushed for by China ?
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spyckie2超过 5 年前
As an ABC who currently lives in HK but has no ties to Asia (born and raised in the US) and has no personal interest in what&#x27;s happening in HK, what I observe is a global increase in pace of change affecting this generation across the entire world, with drastically different results per region &#x2F; body of people based on their current economic, cultural, and political positions.<p>I think earthquakes are a good illustration of what&#x27;s happening. Energy that builds up, friction developed between tectonic plates that gets released, either violently or smoothly, with varying levels of impact depending on the geological conditions surrounding it.<p>In the US, I mostly agree with the high level view that Andrew Yang ascribes (which is actually just the technocrat doom and gloom point of view) - economic changes that created waves of discontent, with an unconscious realization that problems have become too big for individuals alone to deal with, demanding escalation to the government level to solve, bringing in a feeling that we need something radically different (Trump) to handle the observed radical differences that the 21st century world is bringing in.<p>In Asia, the socio-economic changes that are happening are the same as the US, except instead of having the strongest economy in the world with a wealth of resources, education, a progressive history and lots of national-level experience in dealing with shocking changes, you have... exactly what you see in HK. Asian culture, stemming from confucian values, encourage and promote people to power who like to keep things the same way and discourage adaptation (harmony in society is defined as minimizing conflict which usually means not rocking the boat).<p>While the US (at least compared to other countries) has a system in place that can handle mistakes, has a rich history of how to handle change and how to properly push for progressive value shifts, the whole of Asia lacks all of that experience as a culture. What you have is a bunch of the older generation who are used to the old way of doing things, and see the world more similar to the godfather era rather than modern society. The rest of society has a value to not rock the boat and to care for outward harmony over bring up legitimate issues. This yields an environment where people are just not &quot;trained for change&quot;. The actions that the current Asian political powers are taking look primitive to anyone who has lived in modern society and has observed how progressive shifts actually take place (and many have taken place over the last 5-10 years).<p>It will be very interesting to see how Asia adapts because modern society isn&#x27;t going anywhere, it&#x27;s actually speeding up and clashing more and more with how the older generation wants things to be.
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Lucasoato超过 5 年前
Rip democracy
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