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The Feedback Fallacy

115 点作者 ejp超过 5 年前

16 条评论

smacktoward超过 5 年前
When I hear people talking up their policy of<p><i>&gt; “encouraging harsh feedback” and subjecting workers to “intense and awkward” real-time 360s</i><p>... I can&#x27;t help but think how much a review there sounds like a capitalist version of a Maoist &quot;struggle session&quot; (see <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Struggle_session" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Struggle_session</a>).<p>The point of a struggle session wasn&#x27;t to build people up; it was to tear them down. A culture where the way you move up is by tearing your colleagues down is generally a dysfunctional culture. Everybody involved ends up losing sight of things outside their four walls (such as, you know, <i>what customers want</i>), because they&#x27;re spending all their time squaring off against each other internally.<p>I would suggest a healthier, more sustainable culture could be imagined by contemplating these words from the Tao Te Ching (Stephen Mitchell translation, chapter 27: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;taoteching.org.uk&#x2F;index.php?c=27&amp;a=Stephen+Mitchell" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;taoteching.org.uk&#x2F;index.php?c=27&amp;a=Stephen+Mitchell</a>):<p><i>What is a good man but a bad man&#x27;s teacher?<p>What is a bad man but a good man&#x27;s job?</i>
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endymi0n超过 5 年前
How the author seems to get and present such a distorted view of the original Netflix culture slides (which we modeled quite a lot of our original culture from) is completely beyond me. Nowhere did anybody say that feedback should be a one sided activity, here&#x27;s the original source for your reference:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.slideshare.net&#x2F;reed2001&#x2F;culture-1798664&#x2F;11-11CommunicationYou_listen_well_instead_ofreacting" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.slideshare.net&#x2F;reed2001&#x2F;culture-1798664&#x2F;11-11Com...</a><p>The &quot;Communication&quot; slide (p.11) even _starts_ with the skill of listening rather than talking well.<p>We&#x27;re living an open, candid, two sided feedback culture in our company and it&#x27;s by far the best thing that has ever happened to my personal development. The impact on my own perception and management style has been tremendous. Maybe I&#x27;m biased by being a founder, but on our most recent anonymous employee survey, structured feedback got an average 8&#x2F;10 on satisfaction.<p>I take that just like the original ideas of Scrum or Agile, transparent Feedback culture has apparently been bastardized enough by toxic companies living the letter but not the spirit that it&#x27;s apparently starting to get into a negative perception... that&#x27;s a pity but won&#x27;t stop us from giving and getting transparent feedback regularly.
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0xBABAD00C超过 5 年前
&gt; The only realm in which humans are an unimpeachable source of truth is that of their own feelings and experiences<p>Side note, but this strikes me as extremely wrong, based on 35 years of living among humans. Humans have unsurpassed abilities of self-deception, cognitive dissonance tolerance, and building monumental mental models to hide the truth about themselves from themselves.<p>As one economist put it, your &#x27;self&#x27; isn&#x27;t the CEO, it&#x27;s the PR department. You produce a PR-approved spin of your own experiences and feelings for your internal, conscious consumption.
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borramakot超过 5 年前
&gt; Adding up all the inaccurate redness ratings—“gray,” “pretty gray,” “whitish gray,” “muddy brown,” and so on—and averaging them leads us further away both from learning anything reliable about the individuals’ personal experiences of the rose and from the actual truth of how red our rose really is.<p>I don&#x27;t understand this comment. How does averaging noisy signal, even systematically noisy signal, result in something that is noisier than any individual signal? I would have assumed the average would converge on (real signal + systematic error).
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rb808超过 5 年前
Agreed feedback is tough. One of the problems is that it depends a lot on the setting and team. A person in one team might get some kind of feedback, but in another team the same person could get the opposite advice.<p>The other problem in our industry being relative inexperience of many people. When everyone in the team has had &lt; 5yrs experience who is really qualified to objectively describe what a person is doing wrong? I know when I was a an inexperienced manager I gave &quot;constructive feedback&quot; that I now recognize was wrong.
klenwell超过 5 年前
I like the simple actionable advice near the end in the &quot;Explore the present, past, and future&quot; section.<p>The authors&#x27; biographies just below that caught my attention:<p><i>Ashley Goodall is the senior vice president of leadership and team intelligence at Cisco Systems and a coauthor of Nine Lies About Work: A Freethinking Leader’s Guide to the Real World</i><p>Cisco Systems is the kind of giant multinational conglomerate that I would expect to be a (to put it euphemistically) corporate shithole. The kind of place where this kind of forward-thinking management gets lip-service but in the end, for the most part, it&#x27;s the same kind of Gervais Principle Hunger Games hierarchy we&#x27;ve come to deride and deplore in these type of threads.<p>Is this not the case?
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chadcmulligan超过 5 年前
managers spend way too much time on trying to get inside their employees head and fiddle around imho, they really don&#x27;t have the skills or training. if they spent this time on actually helping do the work in terms of what&#x27;s needed and wanted so everyone could just go home then the world would be a much better place.
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bradb3030超过 5 年前
The best I can recommend for managers: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;roadmap.manager-tools.com&#x2F;product&#x2F;basics&#x2F;1" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;roadmap.manager-tools.com&#x2F;product&#x2F;basics&#x2F;1</a>
HelloMcFly超过 5 年前
Hey, we&#x27;re in my territory!<p>Something to note is this premise is disputed by A LOT of experts in this domain. They&#x27;ve been challenged to a debate on this by Marc Effron (not my favorite guy but does generally have grounded thinking in his work) with proceeds benefiting charity but no uptake yet. They have also not shared their data in a way that enables replication or outside validation (or hadn&#x27;t lest I checked). They is a pretty robust history of peer-reviewed research that doesn&#x27;t come to the same conclusion.<p>I think they are on to <i>something</i> here but I think they are taking too far. For their &quot;Source of Truth&quot; section, most of what they say is true, particularly about rating and assessment of employees. Extending that to say suggestions on future behavior from others is also value-less is wrong. The former is problematic because it&#x27;s treated as a source of objective truth that personnel decisions are made against, the latter is clearly a single subjective data point people can reflect on and potentially integrate into future behavior.<p>For &quot;How We Learn&quot; section, much of the words written are true but the conclusion goes beyond what I have seen data justify. Yes, we get better faster at the things we&#x27;re already better at. Should that mean focusing on strengths is often a better coaching direction than weaknesses, yes. Does that mean we shouldn&#x27;t do the latter or that it is value-less? No. It <i>does</i> mean we have to find ways to make weakness-oriented feedback happen in a repeatably non-threatening way.<p>On the &quot;Excellence&quot; section I&#x27;m again in agreement with most of it, but have fewer overall critiques. I should think more about this. I still say the conclusions are not natural endpoints for the points he makes.<p>Then, interestingly there is a table near the bottom. I find it interesting that many of those things you should &quot;Try&quot; rather than &quot;Instead of&quot; are indeed types of feedback and modern organizational development professionals espouse. Language really does matter, that&#x27;s a great table with great suggestions, and most of those are feedback prompts.<p>All that said, I truly like Marcus Buckingham and find his work to typically be evidence-based (to the extent work like this can be) and on solid ground. Here is a brief video of him that is on a related topic that I think everyone should really take to heart if interested in this topic. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.marcusbuckingham.com&#x2F;rwtb&#x2F;performance-management-is-two-things&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.marcusbuckingham.com&#x2F;rwtb&#x2F;performance-management...</a>
meddlin超过 5 年前
In my limited experience as a developer, managers and supervisors need to first open their mouths before we can determine if the feedback is good or not.
scarejunba超过 5 年前
Maybe this is some problem on a large institution level. For me, every time something I&#x27;d done was not correct or I&#x27;d failed, it felt very valuable to me that someone noticed and told me and how they wanted it to be. It reinforced in my mind what was good and that what I thought was not was, in fact, not. I always felt way better coming out of an interaction like that.<p>The worst feeling is when I feel something is going poorly and no one will tell me they think that about my thing.
ummonk超过 5 年前
The part about pain isn’t actually necessarily true. When I was recovering from surgery, they would ask “on a scale of 1-10, with 10 being the worst possible pain, how much pain are you feeling?” I imagined how excruciatingly bad the worst possible pain would be and rated my pain a 2. When my pain went up to a self-reported 3, the nurses were surprised to find me crying from the pain...<p>Not everyone interprets the scale the same way...
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purplezooey超过 5 年前
The recent Malcolm Gladwell book also talks about how poorly we size up others. Oh and I really like &quot;Excellence is idiosyncratic.&quot;, very true.
stephc_int13超过 5 年前
Feedback is dangerous for many reasons, but mostly because the signal&#x2F;noise ratio is mediocre.<p>The problem with noisy feedback is the instability of the closed-loop system, and it can quickly become erratic and ultimately counter-productive.<p>Thus, we should only use feedback when the signal is clear and loud, mostly at the extremes, when performance is outstanding or catastrophic.
russnewcomer超过 5 年前
Paraphrased - How should giving feedback work? &gt; Precisely how it will be received most effectively. - How is that? &gt; You must learn that for every person. Here are some ideas.<p>This is something that I feel like many in engineering have to grow to appreciate (or at least I did, and I see some of the same markers in many of my peers that I had.) not just about feedback and interpersonal relationships, but about everything. There are likely many things that you have an intuitive feel for, but just as many you have to calmly, slowly, and carefully consider yourself, your actions, and their consequences, if you want to be more effective or be better.<p>In the past, I coached jr. high and highschool boys basketball. Some players got lots of leeway to make mistakes before getting subbed out during games, because they were capable of learning from those mistakes themselves, and coach feedback didn&#x27;t help their learning process. Other players would make mistakes and immediately get subbed out, mistake pointed out, discussed, correct action proscribed, and shortly subbed back in. They needed the outside feedback to process &quot;that was a mistake, I shouldn&#x27;t do it again.&quot; Some players goofed off in practice and got to sit on the sidelines. Some players goofed off in practice and got to run laps. I had several discussions with parents about why their son got &quot;special treatment&quot; when really it was about me trying to give effective feedback. And I&#x27;m not saying I was awesome at this, or always adjusted my approach for every kid in every situation, but when I could, everyone&#x27;s results were better.<p>A larger rant I have on this and any topic that circles back to effectiveness is how to respond to &quot;What is the best thing to do in X situation?&quot;<p>For example, today in a team meeting, my group was discussing way to improve performance in one of our systems. In the past, I&#x27;ve seen caching greatly improve performance over database optimizations, so I&#x27;m optimistic about a better caching paradigm, whereas one of my team members is looking at a longer-term code maintenance and simplicity perspective that says, do fewer things better, so optimize our database calls. Long slog to figure out which is better, but we can&#x27;t just generalize from past experience. What should we do? Precisely what is needed. How do we know that? We&#x27;ll have figure it out. We have some general guidelines, but we&#x27;ll have to figure out how to apply them to this situation.<p>I have two kids. The older one would usually go to anyone when he was a baby and be happy, smile, coo, play, for 10 minutes or so before he would get worried about where mom or dad were. The younger one usually senses that mom or dad might be handing him off, and gets upset and takes 5 minutes before he calms down. But sometimes the older one would cry going from my wife to me, and sometimes the younger one will happily go with the church nursery lady. Why? I don&#x27;t know. We&#x27;ll figure it out.<p>Generalization is great, generalization is helpful, generalization is not right in every case. With people, if you really want to be effective in feedback or anything, you have to figure out how to have an approach that you are generally successful at, how to generally alter it when you need to, and then laser focus that flexibility for the people, relationships, and situations that you really care about.
sT370ma2超过 5 年前
This is an excellent article that deserves careful study.