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Nototo – Build a unified mental map of notes

475 点作者 dirtyaura超过 5 年前

51 条评论

danicgross超过 5 年前
This is very cool.<p>Relatedly: I often run while listening to podcasts. When I do, I remember <i>much</i> more of the material. And when I revisit certain blocks around the neighborhood, I find myself recalling what I heard during the run.<p>The spacial encoding of memories seems very potent and under-investigated.
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masukomi超过 5 年前
I love the idea. My concern is that it&#x27;s _so_ specialized that when the developers eventually stop working on it, or paying for the servers, I&#x27;m going to be screwed.<p>I feel that apps like this can be incredibly useful but ultimately, if they work for you, you&#x27;ll spend years shoving data into them only to have it lost the moment the site shuts down, or in the case of desktop apps, the app stops working with the latest OS upgrade.<p>If it was open source and I could host it myself I&#x27;d _seriously_ consider using it.
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landryl超过 5 年前
Definitely going to give it a shot.<p>The way I study math usually (actually not usually, because it&#x27;s not very pracrical, but the most productive way I found) is by locking myself in a classroom, laying all my notes spread on different tables, and using the chalkboard as a temporary playground to redo demonstrations and exercises, and sometimes explore ideas on my own.<p>Theorems and objects end up having a literal spacial position in the room, and I have to move around to study. It feels like being a craft man in his workshop.<p>It&#x27;s fun, really. It got me excited to study maths.<p>But I need a room for it, and I can only get one if I come super early, before class starts, to get 3 or 4 hours of productivity.<p>Maybe a virtual one like that can work. It&#x27;s really appealing.
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chenxi9649超过 5 年前
Hey! I&#x27;m actually one of the makers of Nototo. I&#x27;m quite surprised to find my own project trending on HackerNews!<p>If anyone has questions feel free to ask me here! or at chen@nototo.app
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makach超过 5 年前
Finally, I can stop taking my notes in Minecraft.
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donpark超过 5 年前
Suggestions from an old side-project: automate land management.<p>- Placing a note automatically creates an island around it with a recognizable landmark nearby. Add a tree after each addition. Add or enlarge a pond after each deletion.<p>- Dragging a line between two islands&#x2F;hills either merges the two or moves them closer, depending on the size of the islands&#x2F;hills involved and the population of the area. Locations, distance, and scale can change but the relative direction should not.
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spc476超过 5 年前
My initial reaction was &quot;Cute, in a &#x27;dots I&#x27;s with hearts&#x27; type of way, but not really for me.&quot; And after watching the video and reading the site, I still feel that way, but I can see where you are going with this, with spatial memory. It isn&#x27;t a bad idea.<p>But I do have a question though---I have my island with the &quot;World Domination&quot; plans on it. On that, I have a plateau with plans for the &quot;Mega Death Laser&quot;. But those are related to Tesla&#x27;s patents, and all his stuff is over there on the other island. Is there a way to link the Tesla patents &quot;over there&quot; with the Mega Death Laser plans &quot;over here&quot;?
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anigbrowl超过 5 年前
Seconding the native app. The concept is great and I&#x27;d like to put it to work right now but (like a few other commercial products) it&#x27;s a non-starter to store my data on your servers.
seltzered_超过 5 年前
Neat! Some inspiration if this ever delves into references and connections between notes beyond just spatial relations:<p>- Older ideas based around Xanadu ZigZag (e.g. fenfire.org): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=ACPav69eW78" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=ACPav69eW78</a> .<p>- Tinderbox guide videos<p>- An old HN comment I rediscovered that lists out many older note-taking projects: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=4401550" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=4401550</a> (notably realized connectedtext had a feature akin to roamresearch)
emmanueloga_超过 5 年前
When I heard about &quot;memory palaces&quot; I thought it would be cool if there was some sort of &quot;hashing function&quot; from concept to 3D space, to initially accommodate the thoughts&#x2F;notes of a certain kind in a certain area of that space. That way you would get closely related concepts closely together in space too.<p>Wilmot&#x27;s Warehouse also comes to mind [1] :-)<p>1: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=TAcyPIJYOx4" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=TAcyPIJYOx4</a>
raidicy超过 5 年前
This is slightly tangential. But, in line with visual representation of ideas to aid with memory I found that memories of things I did in VR were more like &quot;real life memories&quot; than anything I ever did in a 2d game.<p>I have a few odd memories of Echo Arena where I swear I can remember feeling the cool air of the arena on my skin and smelling the cold metal walls mixed with sweat. It felt like I was &quot;there&quot;.<p>I wonder if some memory palace concepts could be combined with VR.
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dazhbog超过 5 年前
Please make an offline version with a one-off fee. I would send you lots of lentils for this.
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mettamage超过 5 年前
I just saw the intro video. I agree with the key insight (I&#x27;m a psychology graduate, I&#x27;m basing it on that knowledge).<p>Here&#x27;s some raw feedback from an n = 1. I&#x27;m being as critical as I can here, because your project can take it.<p>Personally, I don&#x27;t think this is the final answer to the problem your solving but a good step towards it. I see some UX issues. It feels like I&#x27;m looking at a Blackberry (in a pre-Blackberry era) and not an iPhone.<p>So in conclusion: you found a key insight <i>that everyone missed</i>, executed well on it, but I&#x27;m missing a certain polish. I wouldn&#x27;t know what this certain polish is, otherwise I&#x27;d have told you. It&#x27;s simply a gut feeling (and gut feelings are terrible at picking things apart).<p>I know it sounds a bit nitpicky, but view it this way: your one step away from world domination as far your product is concerned in my eyes. I&#x27;d say in a sense that&#x27;s really positive feedback, isn&#x27;t it?<p>---<p>I&#x27;m going to riff on this idea in my free time: how can visual layout information help recall? I mean, one quick thought I have is: you can also make a VR app for this. Not sure if that would be the way to go (I think not), but I can imagine how it could help.
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cookingrobot超过 5 年前
Since this seems tailored for remembering content, it might be nice if you published some content in this format rather than just having it be a blank note-taking tool. For ex, let people explore a world that represents a biology textbook, or drivers-ed manual, or something else that commonly needs to be studied &amp; memorized.
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howmayiannoyyou超过 5 年前
This is the repository I want to leave my kids when I&#x27;m gone, with curated content from my life experience the can explore when they feel as if they need some guidance.<p>It&#x27;s also got a ton of potential as UI for blockchain exploration, where the elevation and other topographical features are influenced by transaction characteristics.
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pascoej超过 5 年前
I love the idea. However I tried playing with the product for a while and there&#x27;s no way I can recommend any of my friends to use this in lecture. It uses 70% CPU and 10% GPU causing the fans to spin up. I&#x27;ve found that outlets can be rare when taking and reviewing notes so high power use is a non-starter.
bfung超过 5 年前
Having played and playing a MMORPG where there are farming&#x2F;fishing&#x2F;shop points on a map, these types of things start to lose organization when it gets to around 70ish nodes. While a bit better than text, it&#x27;s not 10x better.<p>Along the same lines about digital habits &amp; itunes and gmail: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=22087406" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=22087406</a><p>Why do I still need to sort &amp; remember where I put my note&#x2F;email&#x2F;idea? Why not just search for keywords and bring all the relevant notes up? I do agree that part of the problem&#x2F;key is how the user inputs their idea, but the memory tool should bring it back w&#x2F;o myself remembering.<p>Nice execution on the tool - my criticism is in challenging what the right recall mechanism should be vs. the input mechanism.
bryanrasmussen超过 5 年前
I&#x27;ve often thought about wanting to build something like this, as I find something enchanting about the memory palace idea.<p>However in my case I think it wouldn&#x27;t do anything for me, I&#x27;m not a visual thinker, I think in paragraphs, I understand things that are written down, even simple diagrams of server client interaction can slow down my understanding of what something is supposed to do in my job. Perhaps that&#x27;s why I find it enchanting, it seems a fantasy because my brain doesn&#x27;t work that way.<p>All that said I think my daughter&#x27;s brain works completely visually, she struggles with language, her memory for abstraction is not good, but she is great with visual ideas. I guess I might start her on this, however like other people I find myself a little hesitant given that you haven&#x27;t figured out a cost for the service yet.
egypturnash超过 5 年前
So what happens when I fill up an island and I want to capture an idea in the proper place RIGHT NOW? Especially if I&#x27;ve got it surrounded by other islands. Aw shit, I just lost my fragile new idea while getting distracted by landscaping.<p>Also holy crap the body type in these notes is microscopic.
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ericsanchez超过 5 年前
This is cool. I agree about the pricing page. If you&#x27;re going to charge, charge.<p>I like where this is going. You are right that humans are visual. But we are more than that; we need to create more tools that complement our biological form. This is a cool step.
tkainrad超过 5 年前
Cool idea! &quot;Unfortunately&quot;, I have grown too accustomed to Notion&#x27;s usability feautures (e.g. markdown, slash commands, organizing in databases) to switch apps again.<p>I think it would be cool to visualize notes of other apps (Notion, Evernote, ...) with maps via APIs. Maybe even automated somehow.<p>If you are interested in reading more about knowledge management in a software engineering context, you might like my blog post: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;tkainrad.dev&#x2F;posts&#x2F;managing-my-personal-knowledge-base&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;tkainrad.dev&#x2F;posts&#x2F;managing-my-personal-knowledge-ba...</a>
aapeli超过 5 年前
I quite like this idea. It seems for now to be fairly simple: I think more &quot;decorations&quot; and higher detail on trees, or whatever, might be important.<p>It seems that it&#x27;s only 2.5D though. Have you considered making it truly 3D somehow? There&#x27;s a surprisingly large amount of extra space you gain with that third dimension.<p>Also, fun idea: what if the island evolved over time? Like every time you visit, trees grow a bit and some new trees grow next to them, so eventually you get a forest, etc. I wonder what the implications of this would be to remembering things? Would the constant change help, or no?
KillerRAK超过 5 年前
Very interesting. There’s certainly something to this associative memory phenomenon. Case and point. I stumbled across this on accident, by listening to the radio while commuting to work in the morning. Some shows repeat themselves throughout the day. If I hear the repeat on my commute home, I can recall an amazing number of details around my morning commute at the same time in the show. It’s pretty amazing and I’m trying to find a way to exploit this outside of listening to Howard Stern on my commute to&#x2F;from work. :-)
zozbot234超过 5 年前
Hey, it&#x27;s a Unix system! I know this!<p>...and everything old is new again, apparently.
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jl6超过 5 年前
I’m the family archivist and it’s long been a dream of mine to build some kind of 3D virtual museum to host all the content (audio, video, photos, documents). I looked into using Blender to construct some “museum geometry” but it seems more suited to organic modelling of objects rather than environments. It feels the technology isn’t quite ready for what I want to do - scaling to tens of millions of assets.<p>Memory palace is a good description of what I want and this app encourages me that others are doing work in the same space!
jesuslop超过 5 年前
Nice concept. I&#x27;m thinking in a possible nebulous improvement. A potential problem here is that it can scale with problems as hundreds of notes are added. We organize knowledge in a hierarchical way, just as we do files in folders, or places in continents, countries, states, cities, neighborhoods and streets. Maybe a tree model of exploitable nodes, and order of magnitude slider, or something to do with what Prezi does. But yes, conceptual proximity as topographical is a great metaphor.
karthikpaga超过 5 年前
Very creative approach. There are flavors of abstraction of information The spatial visuals &#x2F; artifacts are definitely helpful.<p>Much more relevant and sustainable than logs of notes.<p>It&#x27;s pretty interesting that people remember much more about their own Minecraft creation than their notes&#x2F; tasks. This balanced approach is very interesting! Cause of concern: business&#x2F; pricing model.
aiokos超过 5 年前
Now you too can keep notes like you&#x27;re playing [Wilmot&#x27;s Warehouse](<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;wilmotswarehouse.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;wilmotswarehouse.com&#x2F;</a>). Really reminds me of that game and how I floundered at creating a warehouse that was organized such that my spatial brain could actually remember where everything was.
dwagnerkc超过 5 年前
Slick. I’ll be following the project.<p>I’ve been tracking the Munx VR [0] app which is similar, but unable to try it out without a VR headset. They just announced desktop version support so going to give that a go soon along with this Nototo app.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;linguisticator.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;munxvr" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;linguisticator.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;munxvr</a>
thisisastopsign超过 5 年前
This is pretty cool, and I want to try it! but I was expecting it to be a paid Mac native app, not a web app behind a sign-up process... If you plan to keep it web-based, I&#x27;d encourage you to create a demo portal that doesn&#x27;t require a signup. But I&#x27;d love a native app with export functionality (so I can use my own backups)!
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Jemm超过 5 年前
&quot;Free at the moment&quot; is not the way to go. I Don;t want to sign up and invest my time in a product not knowing how much it will cost when you do decide to start chat]raging. Better idea, is either day free for now but____ in the future,
kovek超过 5 年前
If we could model a room of our favorite design and store notes in drawers that would be cool.<p>This is awesome!
nspassov超过 5 年前
Looks really cool, however I would be more comfortable if this was a desktop&#x2F;mobile app rather than a web app. I would like to have some sense of control over my data and prefer if it is not stored on a server somewhere.
bogoman超过 5 年前
Very cool idea.<p>I have been thinking about how augmented reality might help with notes&#x2F;todos and a memory palace might be it. Still unsure about how to execute this but intriguing nonetheless.
plutonorm超过 5 年前
Take my money. I&#x27;ve been thinking about this for a long time, just dont have the energy. Implement this well and I think it&#x27;s a kick ass idea.
keyle超过 5 年前
Interesting concept. The brain does store information with visual location so that works in that way.<p>reminds me a bit of Jurassic Park&#x27;s OS :)
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rosstex超过 5 年前
First thought: &quot;what the flying fuck&quot;<p>Second thought: &quot;wait, this actually makes perfect sense. I want it&quot;<p>Kudos for the great idea!
EternalAugust超过 5 年前
I&#x27;ve been using visuospatial techniques like the method of loci (i.e. memory palaces, but I don&#x27;t call them that) to enhance my memory for about 10 years - here are a few reasons why I think this particular solution won&#x27;t really improve your memory, at least compared with normal diagramming&#x2F;outlining techniques.<p>1. How you navigate through the environment matters. A lot. Let me use an example to try to illustrate how navigation plays a role in the method of loci. You&#x27;re tasked with remembering how to solve a maze you must walk through. Consider how your brain ultimately end up encoding the solution. The brain only retains information that&#x27;s (likely) relevant to solving some problem it is motivated to solve, and, also noteworthy, it tries to encode this information as sparsely as possible. Thus, what you end up remembering is not the precise spatial layout of the maze. Instead, you remember a stack of instructions&#x2F;decisions associated with certain visual cues that contain a very small handful (say 1 to 3) of precise identifying details framed within a very undetailed visual &quot;gist&quot;.[0] How does this relate to the method of loci? Well, as the encoding of your memory palace matures in your brain it is precisely these pictorial memories that end up solidifying in long term memory and becoming the &quot;loci&quot; in which you place the items you want to remember.<p>This entails some important things: first, to actually use a &quot;method of loci&quot; it is important that the environment change little. The solution here does not appear to afford that; you generate the environment, you can change the environment, etc. Well, learning is ultimately a generative activity, so this is okay. Chunking is a generative activity, and that is a highly effective memory technique. But I am going to guess that this, as a generative activity, is not significantly more effective than the generative activities of spider diagramming or outlining in a word document. Worse, if it&#x27;s implemented poorly or lacks certain features it&#x27;s probably worse. Second, to actually use a &quot;method of loci&quot; it is important that you have a clearly defined path to navigate. Again, the solution here does not afford this, as you seem to be constantly moving around wherever you like in the environment. Exploration is fine as a learning activity but if you never boil it down to a specific path (like you do in the maze example), you&#x27;re not creating a true &quot;mind palace&quot; and getting the benefits thereof. Third, each loci must have specific and fairly apparent details that distinguish it from the others, or else your images will tend to get confused. Doesn&#x27;t look like this solution offers much in the way of that with the little models you can place on the islands. I assume that will change over time.<p>As a side note, I also once tried to use the method of loci with such a top down perspective as you see in the demo (specifically I was using the Sims 2, ah how I love that game...). I found it didn&#x27;t work that well.<p>Some years ago my experience was further validated by reading Mary Carruthers&#x27; work on the medieval idea of _ductus_, a core concept in medieval memorytechnique. Ductus doesn&#x27;t have to do with a defined navigation of your body through an environment, though, but a defined navigation of your eyes through an image.<p>To sum up point #1, this solution does not help you produce strong loci like you get with a true method of loci. The &quot;loci&quot; it helps you produce are, if I had to guess, not significantly more effective than the &quot;loci&quot; you produce in your mind when you create, view, and encode the spatial relationships in, say, a draw.io diagram.<p>2. The loci are not being populated with imageable contents, and the method of loci works best for imageable content. I remember reading some cog psyche studies showing this somewhere but CBA to go find them. Also, the more specific the images the more memorable. E.g. apple is worse than Macintosh is worse than &quot;that one Macintosh apple I saw on the floor at the store last week&quot;.<p>3. Related to #2, converting non-imageable concepts to images is expensive and, when you don&#x27;t have at least a partly preconceived &quot;memory language&quot; of images, this almost always offsets the advantages of using the method of loci. I think the problem with non-imageable content is probably the biggest obstacle to using the method of loci for real work (There are some exceptions to this, e.g. if you&#x27;re learning Art History or Medicine) and this does nothing to solve that big problem. Again, I think this puts it in the same league as other diagramming&#x2F;outlining techniques.<p>&lt;long tangent&gt; The solution to this problem I found was creating a bunch of rules for creating such a &quot;memory language&quot;. Most of these images (I call them &quot;esographs&quot;) are compiled and a few can be made JIT when you need them. Another advantage of using these rules is that creating and using the esographs can be a mnemonic&#x2F;memory exercise in of itself that can be used for real work. An example. I might use a black chicken to represent the concept of a decimal point. The connection comes from a story that I heard from watching the TV show QI[1]. The story goes that John Napier, the inventor of the decimal point, had a thieving servant. Now, to figure out which was the thief he persuaded his servants that he owned a magic black chicken that could identify thieving hands when touched. He placed this chicken in an empty room and had each servant go in and touch it. In reality, the story goes, the chicken was actually covered in soot and he identified the thief by seeing which servant had clean hands.<p>Now you can see that this image packs a whole parable-like story (which is itself a memory techniqe), and every time I use this image it reinforces my knowledge.<p>The trick to creating a &quot;memory language&quot; like this is to get into the habit of creating these images whenever possible and eventually you will build up enough images to have some sort of fluency in the language. Admittedly, this is a difficult habit to pick up. But after a while it has been paying off in my case, and can be enhanced with the method of loci. YMMV.<p>Digging through some old notes I found a list of good &quot;rules&quot; for converting non-imageable concepts into imageable ones. I&#x27;m not sure if I should share them since this post is already really long.<p>In any case, such a framework is actually more important than the method of loci since, without it, it&#x27;s very difficult to use the method of loci for real work.<p>Funnily enough, such images representing abstract concepts is also core to medieval memorytechnique and also seems to be a major underlying motivation for religious iconography. And of course you can use the iconography as readymade images for certain concepts. &lt;&#x2F;long tangent&gt;<p>I guess the last thing I will mention is that the method of loci seems to work quite well for some people, especially when they are highly motivated and interested in content that is more imageable, but it does not seem to be all that effective for others. So YMMV.<p>[0] Anecdotally, I have a long commute that doesn&#x27;t require a lot in the way of cognitive effort to navigate. I noticed that it took a very long time for me to remember the landmarks on long stretches of road where I don&#x27;t have to turn.<p>[1] Season 3, Episode 3
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j7ake超过 5 年前
It worked great on Safari. On Chrome the islands were not showing up.
Giho超过 5 年前
Great app. That makes me want to use minecraft as notetaking.
xorzarle超过 5 年前
Damn... Ive had this idea for the longest time
Waterluvian超过 5 年前
Why does this have to be a cloud app? Just make a great app, sell it for download for ten bucks, and go away. Repeat this if you come up with more awesome ideas.
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maebert超过 5 年前
Soooo... Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the whole point of taking notes on your easily searchable computer that you _don’t_ have to remember them?
JVIDEL超过 5 年前
Are you going to support evernote?
julienreszka超过 5 年前
Sadly it&#x27;s not mobile first
OmarShehata超过 5 年前
Their pricing page really bothers me:<p>&gt; We are just three engineering students in an apartment living room, eating lentils everyday, and spending every waking moment of our lives trying to make Nototo into something that people love.<p>&gt; Therefore, we really can&#x27;t afford to spend time and figure out the best way to take money from you.<p>I really dislike this trend of &quot;formulating a business plan for our business isn&#x27;t important for us&quot;. It&#x27;s supposed to come off as &quot;we care so much about delivering a great product that we don&#x27;t care about money&quot; but once you remove the stigma about making money (you&#x27;re a for profit business, you should be making money. It&#x27;s a good thing. There&#x27;s no shame in that) it just comes off lazy. Designing a pricing system and monetizing strategy is just as much a part of making a product as designing the frontend or the tech, and all that directly affects me as a user.<p>It doesn&#x27;t really inspire me to try it if I have no idea if their pricing will be something I&#x27;m ok with or if their product won&#x27;t exist because they didnt think coming up with a business plan was important.
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jakobmi超过 5 年前
Where to download it?!
rijoja超过 5 年前
Very very cool!
ospider超过 5 年前
Unified xxx == Yet Another xxx. See <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;xkcd.com&#x2F;927&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;xkcd.com&#x2F;927&#x2F;</a>
Brave-Steak超过 5 年前
It looks like there’s no desktop app of any kind? The idea looks fascinating, but unfortunately it’s a complete no-go for me without a native and offline option.
gonational超过 5 年前
@dang - is this some kind of marketing post that was promoted? There’s very little chance that there are this many people this excited about some note taking app where you drag your notes as trees and park benches on a windows 95 looking map UI.<p>Also, the number of people requesting a native app for purchase and talking about pricing… Something isn’t right here.
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