TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

We're in for 2 Months

68 点作者 foobuzzHN大约 5 年前

19 条评论

burlesona大约 5 年前
Two months seems like the minimum. The really hard problem is that even if you reduce spread to near zero, it’s almost guaranteed that cases will continue to spread among the essential workers who are still active during the lockdown. As long as that’s the case, the end of the lockdown will result in the cycle starting over.<p>It seems to me that what we’re really doing with the lockdown is buying the time to “mobilize,” in the military sense, our healthcare system. If we had the testing capacity to test everyone and contain only the sick, this would be less serious. If we had 10x as many ventilators, and 100x as much protective equipment, this would be less dangerous. If we had an effective treatment (like a Tamiflu for Covid), then this would be less dangerous. Etc.<p>It seems to me unlikely that we will be locked down less than 2-3 months. But after that, I doubt the public will be willing to endure another global lockdown of this magnitude. Thus I think everything we’re doing now is really about delaying the inevitable long enough for us to get a coherent response in place.<p>To the extent that anyone is a “winner” in a pandemic, it certainly appears to be Taiwan and South Korea, who responded fast enough to the first wave to keep it from requiring an authoritarian response (or, at least thus far).
评论 #22779028 未加载
评论 #22778876 未加载
评论 #22778854 未加载
评论 #22778889 未加载
vearwhershuh大约 5 年前
I&#x27;ll say it again:<p>We get it, we are going to have to shut down the main street economy for months, and potentially on and off for years.<p>OK, we aren&#x27;t rioting yet.<p>So, elites, what&#x27;s the plan to keep people from starving and being thrown out in the streets? A one time $1000 check at some point in the future isn&#x27;t a plan.<p>People who swarm criticize anyone saying &quot;this is crazy&quot; need to start presenting feasible economic plans, or they are gonna see fully operational crazy in a month or so.
评论 #22779141 未加载
magnusmagnusson大约 5 年前
From economical perspective, I don&#x27; think United States can stay &#x27;shut down&#x27; as it is now. 10 million+ jobless claims MINIMUM in past two weeks.. (since those not eligible are not counted) Gotta figure out a way to get healthy people to work. Or I mean, they could stay closed for 2-4 months but that would be quite a wild time.
评论 #22778860 未加载
评论 #22778937 未加载
评论 #22779452 未加载
kerkeslager大约 5 年前
I don&#x27;t agree with the conclusion here. We can draw the conclusion from this that it takes two months for lockdown to work. But that doesn&#x27;t mean we can start loosening lockdown restrictions after two months. There&#x27;s a causal relationship between lockdown and slowing the spread: if you remove the lockdown, the spread will rise again.<p>Some speculation: a big part of why lockdown takes that long to work is that it seems to take that long for people to start taking things seriously enough for lockdown to work. A few weeks ago in NYC there were still people coughing on each other in public and laughing about it, and my observation of a lot of people&#x27;s behavior over time is that for some people, they need someone proximal to them to die of it before they will start complying.<p>I don&#x27;t say this judgmentally. Personally, I probably didn&#x27;t take things seriously for about a week after I probably should have, and looking back at why, it wasn&#x27;t because I didn&#x27;t care, it was a fear reaction--one very human reaction to something scary is to downplay it or pretend it isn&#x27;t happening.
zabana大约 5 年前
What I&#x27;m worried about is the number of people who will suffer as a consequence of this worldwide lockdown.<p>Depression, loneliness, suicide, addictive behaviours (alcohol, tobacco, recreational drugs), high stress due to varying economic factors, panic (media induced) etc ...
评论 #22779125 未加载
评论 #22778983 未加载
temac大约 5 年前
On one hands tons of countries locked down after China (relative to the number of serious cases or deaths - I understand there is a debate about Chinese numbers, but I don&#x27;t find it relevant here, because Italy or France <i>also</i> did not test a lot and <i>also</i> under-reported deaths -- basically counting only cases that were tested and died in an hospital -- in the end given the dynamic of the epidemics and other uncertainties it does not change a lot rough date predictions even if there would be 3 times more deaths)<p>So it even could take a few more weeks to get to the same low point again. Plus China had an extremely aggressive strategy, accumulating the measures, and even Italy did not use all of them. And France does less than Italy (non essential production has not been stopped by the government in France).<p>On the other hand I doubt we are going to eradicate the disease (at least not in the immediate future and not only with worldwide lockdowns), so we might want to use another lifting strategy than what they did in China (if we manage to develop means to control the spread at a very low rate)<p>2 months is still a reasonable approximation, given all the unknowns. But I will not even be surprised if it ends up being 3, and 4 is not out of the question.
ckdarby大约 5 年前
Does anyone believe the numbers that China has given?<p>I asked as I see everyone use them to compare against but then I see articles popping up talking about reporters who reported difference numbers just vanish over night.
评论 #22778977 未加载
评论 #22779167 未加载
评论 #22778789 未加载
评论 #22798021 未加载
评论 #22778907 未加载
评论 #22778819 未加载
jellicle大约 5 年前
The author missed inter-family infection growth during a lockdown. If you have a family of 5 people and person 1 is infected, person 2 gets infected by 1 after one week, a week later person 2 infects 3, a week later person 3 infects 4, a week later person 4 infects 5. And only then does the infection cascade stop.<p>This is also happening in hospitals, in nursing homes, in homeless shelters...all are also &quot;families&quot; for this purpose. If your &quot;lockdown&quot; was truly no contact between any two humans, the cascade would stop quicker. But that&#x27;s not the case.<p>Comparing the US to China is wrong, because the US isn&#x27;t doing MOST of what China did to allow the lockdown to be lifted.
moneywoes大约 5 年前
Haven&#x27;t cases started reappearing in China? And haven&#x27;t they had to restart the lockdown.
riskneutral大约 5 年前
&quot;The rate of growth at a given day is the number of new cases on this day, as a percentage of the number of cases from the previous day. The rate of growth is constant for an exponential evolution, and is 0 when there is no more growth. (Mathematically, it is the derivative of the function divided by the function itself.)&quot;<p>I don&#x27;t think that&#x27;s the curve they&#x27;re talking about flattening.<p>I think 2 months is just the lower bound.
评论 #22778679 未加载
hn_throwaway_99大约 5 年前
As others have pointed out, this only gets thing to a steady state <i>while everyone is still locked down</i>. <i>All</i> the countries that have loosened their lockdown restrictions had to tighten them back up after they had new &quot;flare-ups&quot;.<p>We&#x27;re in this for <i>many, many</i> months. Somehow a lot of people have forgotten that &quot;flattening the curve&quot; greatly <i>lengthens</i> the time period of the curve.<p>Also, the thesis behind flattening the curve is still that the same number of people eventually get it, and it&#x27;s only once you get broad population immunity that the spread stops.<p>We will be fighting this with social distancing until there is a vaccine.
评论 #22778842 未加载
评论 #22778825 未加载
chrisweekly大约 5 年前
I&#x27;m confused -- or rather, think the author may be -- about what&#x27;s being measured and inferred. A rate of growth of 0 still means the number of new cases is increasing. The rate of growth needs to be negative before the rate of new cases can peak, slow, and (hopefully someday) stop. Acceleration vs velocity vs position. Right?
评论 #22778729 未加载
SeekingMeaning大约 5 年前
&gt; ... stop playing the game of &quot;in our country it&#x27;s going to be different than in China&quot; ...
oDot大约 5 年前
From what I read, a single lockdown doesn&#x27;t work, as even 1 patient is enough to destroy everything, and a lockdown can&#x27;t guarantee he wouldn&#x27;t exist.<p>A solution seems to be selective lockdowns by area backed by a huge amount of testing.
评论 #22778764 未加载
Touche大约 5 年前
What I want to know is how long after the lockdown is lifted will we know if it&#x27;s going to spread again? 2 weeks?
asiachick大约 5 年前
So we all lockdown and the rate goes down. It stop staying locked down won&#x27;t the rate go back up? The only way the rate stays down is if we stop staying locked down is<p>(a) most people already caught it and are immune<p>(b) we develop a vaccine<p>(c) we develop a cure that is easily mass produced and easily distributed.<p>Until one of those happens we&#x27;re in lockdown. No? And that means 12 to 24 months.
评论 #22778761 未加载
评论 #22778779 未加载
评论 #22778804 未加载
评论 #22778769 未加载
animalnewbie大约 5 年前
If you&#x27;re trusting China&#x27;s numbers I don&#x27;t know if I shoukd trust your analysis.
drtillberg大约 5 年前
As long as there are a few cases in the community-- and there always will be-- the end of each lockdown potentially will trigger a surge of cases, and thus a new lockdown.<p>I think what is really going on here is world leaders assume China is most knowledgeable about this virus, because goodness knows its labs probably have been studying it for 15 years, they don&#x27;t have confidence that China is forthcoming about what it knows, and in a few nations globally the effect borders on catastrophic so it&#x27;s not something to be ignored. So, governments have <i>copied</i> the <i>more</i> <i>knowledgeable</i> <i>actor</i>, which happens to be an autocratic communist government, in hopes that it&#x27;s approach is the best informed and effective scientifically .<p>Thus, the answer to &#x27;when do the lockdowns end&#x27; really is: when we feel more knowledgeable about the virus than the nations that resorted to placing their populations under house arrest, and therefore feel confident enough to stop following China&#x27;s example.
captain_crabs大约 5 年前
If real information about China were to leak out, my guess is it would happen through the vector of internet&#x2F;social media. Chances are, some other source would need to copy + repost it before being taken down. This is what I looked for.<p>One such account which is purportedly doing this is <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;truthabtchina" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;truthabtchina</a>. To summarize this, among other rumors:<p><pre><code> - lots more people have died that communicated (there&#x27;s an estimate of ~22m due to missing cell phone contracts) - riots are happening between regions where lockdown occurred, and regions next to them) - lockdown isn&#x27;t practically over in areas where resurgence of infection is happening (pending other containment approaches) </code></pre> edit: I&#x27;ve eaten dinner with some friends from China in the past month before lockdown started, and am in frequent contact with people traveling throughout SEA. I was trying to provide and summarize a potential semi-primary source. Added some more specific #&#x27;s, info, and removed inflammatory words. Sorry - I wasn&#x27;t trying to be fear-mongery. However, I am trying to accurately reflect a harsher reality<p>I do think it&#x27;s quite reasonable to assume some areas of China are getting back to normal.<p>I also think it&#x27;s quite unreasonable to assume info _isn&#x27;t_ being censored and controlled, especially post journalist-eviction.
评论 #22778873 未加载