TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

The Politically Incorrect Guide to Ending Poverty

139 点作者 b-man大约 14 年前

12 条评论

maxklein大约 14 年前
It's not just politically incorrect, it's also incorrect. Hong Kong was not setup as a place for the british to run, the british came in and controlled it. There's a difference - because the british were absolute law and order. There were not two voices.<p>A more apt comparison would be suzhou. Areas of it were developed under singaporean authority. The singaporeans ended there with huge losses, and I don't think they are interested in doing such anymore.<p>And singapore and china are relatively close culturally - if for example china were to setup cities in Africa, diaster would occur. You can see the same happening with current chinese ventures there: they are run and managed solely by chinese and employ chinese. I was watching a BBc documentary the other day about some chinese companies in Angola, and an Angolan man complained: "Why do they need to bring people from China here to drive trucks?" The answer is simple - if you have people from two different countries and two different cultures where one is driving a truck and the other is managing his work, then productivity will sink massively.<p>A country administering a town in another country will be constantly beset by these cross-cultural problems. There will be conflicting interests, conflicting cultures and conflicting work attitudes. One side will resent the other, and instead of new booming towns, there will be wastage and empty buildings.<p>The current system is better, where a country simply sends its people to build infrastructure and then walks away. Perhaps even build the entire physical infrstructure and buildings of a city, but the actual management has to be separate, I'd think.
评论 #2287474 未加载
评论 #2286735 未加载
评论 #2286244 未加载
hristov大约 14 年前
This article pops on hn periodically, so I do not have time to refute it in detail yet again, but should point out quickly that this is just a plan to create private paid for dictatorships. It is very unlikely to result in reduction of poverty as this rarely happens in dictatorships.<p>What will most likely happen is some type of slave camp deal as it is already happening in Dubai.<p>Now you will say, "but the people have a right to vote with their feet, i.e. to leave if they do not like the place." Technically yes, but in reality no. The poor foreign workers that are being held in Dubai also theoretically have a right to leave, but they cannot because the Dubai police will simply club them on their heads if they even mention leaving before finishing their job.<p>If you do not have an overall legal framework that protects individual rights, if the people do not have the right to elect their own leaders and/or police chiefs, then it is very unlikely the police will protect the people's rights.
评论 #2287198 未加载
thecoffman大约 14 年前
Very interesting article - makes you think.<p>The Atlantic is one of the few magazines that I subscribe to in print. There's a nice blend of culture, politics, and forward thinking, and there doesn't seem to be a ton of editorial stance. You'll read one article from a liberal perspective, and then another one from a conservative one. It seems to be an all around solid publication. I don't always agree with what they publish - but its almost always thought provoking.
ddlatham大约 14 年前
Previous discussion at:<p><a href="http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1426429" rel="nofollow">http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1426429</a><p><a href="http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1584200" rel="nofollow">http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1584200</a>
mquander大约 14 年前
Related: <a href="http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2009/08/from-cromer-to-romer-and-back-again.html" rel="nofollow">http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2009/08/from-cr...</a><p>I agree with the upshot of Moldbug's argument: <i>"Thus the practical problem with 'charter cities' is that no one wants them: not the host regime, not the international regime. For both, they simply work too well. Colonialism had to die not because it didn't work, but because it worked too well."</i>
评论 #2285185 未加载
thisrod大约 14 年前
The most interesting part of this is the irrational thinking it exposes in the developed world.<p>What's the difference between extending Canada to include a bit of Africa, and letting more Africans move to the existing Canada? I think it's pretty minor. Then why would Canadians bother with Romer's plan, when they could simply relax their immigration laws?
评论 #2287226 未加载
kragen大约 14 年前
Honduras recently amended its constitution to permit the creation of Regiones Especiales de Desarrollo, following Romer's ideas: <a href="http://www.congreso.gob.hn/contenido/1640-cronologia-del-nacimiento-de-una-ciudad-modelo-en-honduras" rel="nofollow">http://www.congreso.gob.hn/contenido/1640-cronologia-del-nac...</a>
评论 #2288010 未加载
_delirium大约 14 年前
Here's the project's website: <a href="http://www.chartercities.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.chartercities.org/</a>
emit_time_n3rgy大约 14 年前
This reminds me of this Journeyman documentary subject on the plans of Chinese business-persons to develop a Swedish town into a large commercially thriving community - <a href="http://www.journeyman.tv/61449/documentaries/chinatown.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.journeyman.tv/61449/documentaries/chinatown.html</a><p>Not poverty-reduction-related but does relate to the subject in a different way..
shaddi大约 14 年前
I'm not going to fault this piece for being hand-wavy and poorly justified: it is that, but then again, it's a piece of popular journalism which is allowed to be. So, I'll criticize the broader idea.<p>This article cites China as a model. Hong Kong did not pull the rest of China up as it grew. It certainly played a role, but frankly the communism that took resources from the urban coast and built roads, schools, and other infrastructure in rural areas was more likely a bigger contributor to the massive improvement in (purely economic) standard-of-living for most Chinese.<p>It was in particular /not/ enlightened foreign rule of urban areas that did this. If we accept that all geopolitical entities respond to incentives, it is not clear that direct foreign control of areas of the developing world will produce the ideal outcome for those areas: this will only be the case when the incentives and interests of both the local population (which is not monolithic, btw, but we'll ignore that for now) and the foreigners align; long term prosperity requires that incentives align for both in the long term, which seems terribly unlikely. Moreover, the history of development is fraught with stories stories good-intentioned outsiders failing to make a beneficial impact because they poorly understood the complex local situation, and it's simply unrealistic to assume you can just start with a clean-slate-by-fiat in a "charter city" and build without considering a place's history.<p>I think Romer has a good core idea, one that few people would argue with. Namely, development is not just a matter of fixing the "Production = F(capital &#38; labor)" equation; good governance, good ideas, and good people all are required. While it may be surprising to some, this is an idea that is pretty well understood (at least at a high level) in the development community/industry. My beef with his idea is a flawed execution, and one that I think could be potentially damaging in the long term. These ideas need to come from local populations and make sense for their own contexts.<p>As an analogy, you just aren't going to reproduce Silicon Valley by emulating the Bay Area's regulations and investment level: there is a whole history that made it the way it is. Attempts to do so are kind of doomed from the start, so it's better to focus on creating new centers of prosperity that make sense for the local context. I don't think foreigners are well positioned to do that.<p>---<p>Another point to make, the Millennium Villages Project had a similar premise to Romer's. The idea was that solving the problems of poverty in particular villages through strong international partnerships would lead to spillover effects throughout the surrounding areas. Everything I've heard about it is that the results have been alright, but not really that great. Besides a bit more of a heavy-handed foreign-involvement approach, I'm not sure if the "charter cities" idea really is that different than MVP and hence it's not clear how it will overcome the obstacles MVP faced.<p>Edit: William Easterly is quoted here. He has an awesome book, "The Elusive Quest for Growth", that discusses a lot of non-intuitive reasons why development efforts have historically failed. I would highly recommend it.
评论 #2286046 未加载
评论 #2285350 未加载
评论 #2286502 未加载
评论 #2285388 未加载
wladimir大约 14 年前
When I read "Politically incorrect", I was thinking of Jonathan Swifts' "A modest proposal" (<a href="http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html" rel="nofollow">http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html</a>)
jcampbell1大约 14 年前
not hacker news.