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YouTube has deleted the account of David Icke

307 点作者 99chrisbard大约 5 年前

56 条评论

ryankemper大约 5 年前
I very strongly feel that we should be very careful to avoid adopting a legalistic attitude towards freedom of speech. That is, I am opposed to the argument that private corporations are not bound by the first amendment, and therefore it&#x27;s okay for them to suppress content. I agree that they&#x27;re not bound by the first amendment (I don&#x27;t claim to understand the nuances of the &quot;platform&quot; laws so I won&#x27;t address that), but that&#x27;s different from saying that we as a society should <i>want</i> our private platforms to engage in such censorship and suppression.<p>Booting people off of platforms merely reinforces their pre-existing beliefs, and further radicalizes them.<p>COVID-19 has added the additional element of this new concept of &quot;disinformation&quot;. The argument is seductively simple: &quot;being exposed to this information could lead you to engage in patterns of behavior that harm society. Therefore we can conceptualize this speech as being an indirect form of violence&#x2F;negligence and therefore we have a moral obligation to remove such content&quot;.<p>Many may disagree, but I think we need to throw out this concept of &quot;disinformation&quot; entirely. I don&#x27;t believe in fighting &quot;bad ideas&quot; by suppressing them, I believe in shining a light on them. Let the truth fight for itself. (And of course now comes the classic counter-argument: that the evils of disinformation possess a virality that makes them spread far more easily than the truth, being that truth is nuanced and difficult to acquire whereas bad information is seductively simple. I won&#x27;t address that argument here but personally I think it&#x27;s a very dangerous way of thinking)
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imgabe大约 5 年前
I&#x27;m not going to shed a tear for David Icke, but this quote is very concerning:<p>&gt; YouTube has clear policies prohibiting any content that disputes the existence and transmission of Covid-19 <i>as described by the WHO [World Health Organization] and the NHS [the U.K&#x27;s healthcare system]</i> [emphasis added]<p>The WHO at least has been flat out wrong several times during this pandemic, such as telling people not to wear masks. Anointing one agency as the sole source of truth and censoring anything that contradicts it is not going to lead to a good outcome. People need to be able to question authorities.
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mrfusion大约 5 年前
Just some food for thought. If youtube was around in the past and doing this stuff they could have deleted videos in support of the following: (these all started as fringe beliefs(1))<p>Interracial marriage<p>Gay marriage<p>Smoking causes lung cancer<p>(1) interesting topical read and it has sources for these at the end <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;waitbutwhy.com&#x2F;2019&#x2F;09&#x2F;american-brain.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;waitbutwhy.com&#x2F;2019&#x2F;09&#x2F;american-brain.html</a>
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JSavageOne大约 5 年前
I have no familiarity with David Icke, but I wonder how much of his &quot;popularity&quot; was fueled by the Youtube algorithm recommending his gullible viewers more and more of the same kind of conspiracy content. I remember speaking to a Flat-Earther once (yes, they actually exist), and it seemed he basically became a flat-earther because he watched one flat-earth video and Youtube kept recommending him more similar content until he became convinced. He also believed in basically every other conspiracy theory (eg. anti-vaxxing) due to spending a considerable amount of time in this Youtube rabbit-hole.<p>Perhaps instead of simply blaming and deleting individual accounts, Youtube should accept responsibility for the dark side of its recommendation algorithms and stop feeding people the same kind of one-sided content espousing the same conspiracy theories.
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toofy大约 5 年前
This really comes down to whether or not all ideas should be _promoted_ equally. Do we think all ideas–even if they are demonstrably untrue-deserve to be boosted to the same level of provable truths.<p>Should they all be promoted equally and considered equally and taught equally, forever? Do we allow demonstrably false claims to remain at the top to be treated equally, forever? To forever waste time? Every single provable untruth? Millions of them? Forever?<p>I personally see no problem with demoting ideas which have been considered already. I however would have a problem if these peddlers of demonstrably untrue ideas couldn’t easily go set up their own websites or print on their own paper.<p>This is why I’m not running around flapping my arms dancing in a panic circle. At this point, people can still:<p>- <i>easily</i> make their own websites at a cost which is a tiny fraction compared to history<p>- ideas can still printed and pushed the same as they always could through print<p>- people can still stand on a corner and yelp out whatever ideas just as they always could.<p>This is really about how much promotion into consideration these ideas deserve and for how long. How much of our <i>very</i> limited time&#x2F;energy reserves do every idea get?
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christiansakai大约 5 年前
I used to naively believe that education and more information will fix a lot of things in the world. People will want to study and think and they will be enlightened.<p>I don&#x27;t believe that anymore. For one reason, studying is hard, critical thinking is hard. Even with given free time and privilege (hello UBI?), most people will not prefer studying or thinking critically. They&#x27;d rather parrot things from the internet and the media around them.
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Zenst大约 5 年前
Yay another extremist swept under the digital carpet, problem solved - well NO.<p>This will just shift this extremist content to other unregulated and unmonitored platforms that will not engage in debate, but blindly accept such things.<p>After all, if people believe this kinda stuff, cutting of the head won&#x27;t stop them believing, just shifts the problem out of the public glare, at least on the surface.
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Gatsky大约 5 年前
I don’t understand the free speech arguments here. Youtube is an advertising platform. They can do what they want with their platform. If I own a billboard, and someone wants to advertise their bags for dead kittens, I can say no.<p>There needs to be some sense of proportionality. If the government bashed down Icke’s door and smashed his computer then sure, we should worry about free speech. But getting banned from Youtube?
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Traster大约 5 年前
To be honest there&#x27;s a lot of talk about freedom of speech here, and the dynamic of freedom of speech vs private corporations right to determine what they allow on their site. Personally I think that this issue is not actually as important as people think, and this problem is just one of several that emerges from a different problem. Our real problem is a lack of competition. There are a tiny number of social media sites that exist at scale: There&#x27;s Youtube, there&#x27;s Facebook, and then Twitter.<p>If we had 15 social media platforms, it really wouldn&#x27;t be much of a problem for them to make decisions about who they wanted on their platform - whether that be through Terms of Service or crappy DMCA implementations. And that&#x27;s not even taking into consideration the fact that they&#x27;re all run by the same handful of people who bump into each other at the local Whole Foods.<p>The problem isn&#x27;t censorship, it&#x27;s the fact that we&#x27;ve got Standard Oil and no one sees it as a problem.
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ordinarydev大约 5 年前
If spreading misinformation is a valid means to shut down a channel then why do channels like Spirit Science remain? They got about 900k subs and spend the whole time spouting the most insane claims you could possibly think of with absolutely no evidence to back it up and yet they continue to remain.
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p1necone大约 5 年前
The entire text of the first amendment, seeing as it seems like a lot of people like to reference it without actually knowing (or pretending not to know) what it says:<p>&quot;Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.&quot;
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t0ughcritic大约 5 年前
Been saying this a long time. The top tech companies aka FANGs are too big and just booting people off regardless of if they agree with msg is is not right. This was happening with apps before, now videos and WhatsApp msg throttling. Soon it will be email filtering and then we can say we officially have the great freedom firewall of America. Any means of discovery and communication digitally is now strictly controlled under the guise of fake news. Content was already being ghosted or shadow banned and now it is simply booted. No one should attempt to build any company unless they are heavily funded on these platforms. Add trailers, preview content on them and if possible self host.
ryankrage77大约 5 年前
I see a lot of comments suggesting YouTube is a large &amp; monopolistic enough platform that they have to be held to a different standard than a private company, more like a public utility.<p>YouTube is a private company, and they&#x27;re hosting exabytes of video content for free. You don&#x27;t need to pay (with money) to upload terabytes of video and have it streamed to millions of people. Just 20 years ago that would have been unimaginable. Even today I think it&#x27;s taken for granted a little too much.<p>If YouTube did what we want, I reckon they&#x27;d be out of business pretty fast as they get overrun with the kind of content they currently don&#x27;t allow.
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colinplamondon大约 5 年前
Especially right now, communication is moving more and more online. Online communication is increasingly mediated by corporations.<p>If our speech is mediated by corporations, and those corporations tell us what we can and cannot say, what good is freedom of speech?<p>Companies like YouTube take advantage of their economies of scale to offer video services for free. To be able to do that, they had to dump services at a loss for years funded by venture capital.<p>How can you build a meaningful paid platform, while a VC-backed company spends tens of millions on R&amp;D at a loss?<p>The argument thus far is that this is in the consumer&#x27;s interest - free services at a high quality. That dumping being good for the consumer is contingent on the business being able to monetize with advertising.<p>If YouTube couldn&#x27;t make money with ads, they&#x27;d have to charge for their services - opening them up to competition. VC backed businesses offering consumer products for free is most certainly dumping. So far, that dumping has been to consumer&#x27;s benefit. YouTube&#x27;s behavior is reversing that benefit.<p>There&#x27;s also a lot of other options they could go with, all of which would be far less un-American.<p>1) A Reddit-like quarantine system, and eat the cost of hosting (like Reddit does)<p>2) Require Ickes to pay for his own hosting on YouTube, at YouTube&#x27;s favorable pricing and peering contracts.<p>3) Enable a separate ad ecosystem for quarantined content.
Mikhail_Edoshin大约 5 年前
There seems to be quite a few YouTube videos of charging phones in microwaves. Are these videos being removed from YouTube too? And I&#x27;ve heard stories that some people indeed believed that and broke their phones. Can YouTube be held responsible for damages?
busymom0大约 5 年前
“As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be most aware of change in the air – however slight – lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness.”<p>- Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas
anctualprzn大约 5 年前
While I generally agree that censorship is not ideal, I think one big issue here is that YouTube is already in the business of influencing what is watched on their platform. Popular content is recommended more. In effect, content becomes click bait that&#x27;s meant to invoke emotions. I think some blame can be put on YouTube for driving people to listen to fanatics, so this seems like an effort to right that wrong.<p>I&#x27;m not a fan of popularity-driven recommendations unless they&#x27;re from a community like HN that has a high-bar for useful content.
intended大约 5 年前
Inevitably on a moderation question on HN People will argue for “truth” to fight with misinformation.<p>Please know that this stopped working the moment we went past the artisanal era of content moderation - which was before the Cable news cycle effect. At the scale we operate at now, not moderating content guarantees that malformed information Packets that take advantage of neural and social weaknesses will proliferate over “truth”.
jasonlingx大约 5 年前
Interesting. Private companies have now become the moral arbitrators and censors of the global social media platforms they control vs in China where the government takes on this role. Wonder which is more dystopian.
patti3000大约 5 年前
Rebel Wisdom has done some great reporting on this:<p>David Icke &amp; London Real, an Investigation <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=hDM1wTGOjOw" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=hDM1wTGOjOw</a><p>Why was David Icke been banned from YouTube? <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=omiD6WkTKak" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=omiD6WkTKak</a>
pnako大约 5 年前
YouTube is trying very hard to become the new MTV.
chantelles大约 5 年前
Icke&#x27;s Conspiracy theories are displacement of class discontent 2005: The Reptoid Hypothesis. In this context, Google has just silenced a form of dissent or at least evidence of dissent building. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.jstor.org&#x2F;stable&#x2F;20718709?seq=1" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.jstor.org&#x2F;stable&#x2F;20718709?seq=1</a>
runawaybottle大约 5 年前
If Youtube really believes this is the right course of action, why doesn’t it’s sister company Google remove those items from search as well? If this is really a principled action, then let’s see some follow through.<p>They’d never do that because that is the very definition of internet censorship as we know it today.<p>That’s how close Youtube is with this dangerous game.
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rurban大约 5 年前
What he says reminds me a lot on religious teachings. They are still allowed to spread their bullshit. Esp. it reminds me on Scientology. Which is allowed in many countries to teach the very same bullshit.<p>Censorship is violating fundamental rights. Somebody should fight them, Facebook, Google, Twitter, in court, but nobody will for these nutcases.
brenden2大约 5 年前
IMO censorship is wrong. To quote someone smarter than me:<p>&gt; I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;quoteinvestigator.com&#x2F;2015&#x2F;06&#x2F;01&#x2F;defend-say&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;quoteinvestigator.com&#x2F;2015&#x2F;06&#x2F;01&#x2F;defend-say&#x2F;</a>
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kalium-xyz大约 5 年前
I predict a near future update from David on how the Lizard people plotted against our enlightenment once again by blocking him from us. Fear not, he has found new ways to make us aware of the consciousness field, saturn, and 5G its emotion affecting effects.
mrfusion大约 5 年前
This is a good read that made me think twice about what youtube is doing.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;waitbutwhy.com&#x2F;2019&#x2F;09&#x2F;american-brain.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;waitbutwhy.com&#x2F;2019&#x2F;09&#x2F;american-brain.html</a>
pcurve大约 5 年前
While channels with extreme stance that have public health repercussion are easy enough for them to shut down, I worry more about amateur channels with conspiracy-oriented bating materials that polarize people to either extreme.
NiceWayToDoIT大约 5 年前
Although I welcome deletion of David Icke account, I am afraid that now he will play on a card of suppression, scoring even more points for his conspiracy theories, fueling even more flame of fear and hatred.
throwaway05041大约 5 年前
Throwaway. I worked at an event David did many years ago. I used to be a big fan.<p>My wife and I watched his 3 hour interview last night after hearing about these bans and discussed this a fair bit.<p>For those that didn&#x27;t watch, he categorically denies the existence of Covid-19, calls the entire thing a hoax and said that Gates is a psychopath who wants to vaccinate the entire world with nanobots that will eventually enslave us. 5G doesn&#x27;t cause Covid-19, because it doesn&#x27;t exist, but 5g can activate the nanobots and at 60ghz can cause respiratory problems similar to what we&#x27;re seeing. This is orchestrated by a shadowy group called The Cult. We should rise up against our governments and the &#x27;technocrats&#x27; of silicon valley (the 1%) to solve this.<p>It may sound ridiculous, but he mixes in enough truth (often in the form of things you will have seen on the Internet) and cleverly spun arguments to make the &#x27;lies&#x27; believable. He does this over a long enough time period (yesterday 3 hours, but his talks are often far longer), that you come away believing what he&#x27;s said, that&#x27;s he incredibly clever, and that he&#x27;s fighting for the &quot;real man on the street&quot; against the 1% and a government that&#x27;s done nothing for you. Social media has been very dangerous in this respect.<p>A few days ago I saw someone on twitter saying that rather than deplatform, Icke should just be beaten in debate. The problem is you can&#x27;t beat Icke in debate without making his followers dig in further. Like any conspiracist, the retort is &quot;that&#x27;s what they&#x27;d want you to say&quot;. It&#x27;s similar to arguing with someone about the existence of God. You can&#x27;t <i>prove</i> there is no God, I continue to believe and tell you he exists.<p>My wife just thinks it&#x27;s all ridiculous. I think with the vaccinations, it&#x27;s dangerous. But then I have kids now, both are vaccinated. The concept of censoring people scares me, but the idea of throwing away a hundred years of science and medicine because people are worried about being being controlled by Gates&#x27;s nanobots scares me even more.
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imode大约 5 年前
I see a lot of people not wanting to offer alternative solutions to the treatment of this particular individual&#x27;s content: if you&#x27;re not in favor of removal, then what? This content can&#x27;t be allowed to stand as-is.<p>I&#x27;m sure you&#x27;d complain about any measure other than leaving this individual alone. If so, you deserve to be angry, because you&#x27;re part of the overall problem.<p>Edit: To remind all of you, downvotes should be reserved for things that are strictly disruptive or not contributing to discussion. Unless we&#x27;re free to disregard the rules, now.
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baybal2大约 5 年前
I find this a little bit strange when they allow outright scam pseudoscience ads.<p>I think, I counted at least 4 &quot;magic cure&quot; ads on youtube today.
cgiles大约 5 年前
The question I am not seeing addressed in the many, many comments below is: <i>why</i> is there such a large pool of people willing to believe, and act on, ideas like &quot;5G causes COVID-19 symptoms&quot;, &quot;vaccines are harmful&quot;, anything by Alex Jones, etc?<p>It is because people are afraid, and because there is a breakdown of trust in Authorities and Experts to tell the truth and keep people safe. Governments and intelligence agencies lied about Iraq and beyond. Large corporations were the only ones saved in 2008. There is a reproducibility crisis in science, which it pays lip service, and lip service only, to solving. Newspapers have become partisan, ad-driven shills. Corporations buy politicians, and together they invent truths as needed to further the bottom line.<p>This is the context in which people are increasingly skeptical of Authorities. &quot;5G causes coronavirus&quot;, I think, like flat-earth belief, is less an actual belief a person could actually have, than an almost symbolic statement of distrust in Experts. The specific belief is completely unfounded, but the feeling behind it is not.<p>In this context, I fail to see how corporate censorship could possibly be the answer. At the very best, it is a band-aid. The necessary solution is for our institutions to regain their credibility. The first in many steps will be for them to show some humility and acknowledge that they have failed us badly. Until that credibility is re-established, they need to use a softer touch, rather than doubling down on the obviously false idea that their words are the Infallible Truth.
scythe大约 5 年前
An amusing casualty. Newsweek states:<p>&gt;David Icke, Man Behind Coronavirus 5G Conspiracy<p>Can this be true? Does David Icke have a following that isn&#x27;t just laughing along with it? I remember his reptilian shapeshifter theory being a running joke from back when I was in high school in 2005!<p>Surely, <i>someone else</i> must have started the whole 5G conspiracy theory, right? Icke just latched on to it?
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friendlybus大约 5 年前
The case for a free and open web is terminal. Assange, christchurch, numerous political commentators. Liberty is deflating into traditional culture and we are all being pinned down into our most basic identities for the sake of the coming command economy in the 2040s. Sic transit gloria mundi.
dwardu大约 5 年前
It all started with Alex Jones, and everyone cheered...<p>YouTube is a private company, and yes it can choose who it wants on its platform.<p>On the other hand of the argument. When do we determine that a company&#x27;s platform has become so big, that it is a public space and it should just &quot;maintain&quot; the platform and make it as inclusive as possible? For example, we had Alexandra Ocasio Cortez blocking people on twitter, and it is a private platform that a public figure is using, however it was deemed illegal, I&#x27;m not sure if it is the same thing that happened with Trump and a few others.<p>I&#x27;m not an US citizen, and I don&#x27;t live in there, however it&#x27;s so important to see people&#x27;s views, no matter how stupid or ridiculous it can be. I want to be able to make up my own mind, some views may be terrible and we should be able to hear them. Be curious in pursuing these things.<p>David Icke, from the little I know is crazy, and says some ridiculous things, but he should have be allowed to voice them.
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polytronic大约 5 年前
I completely align with this:<p>&quot;When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know, the end result is tyranny and oppression no matter how holy the motives.&quot;<p>Robert A. Heinlein
techntoke大约 5 年前
How can they remove David Icke before George Webb and Jason Goodman?
qiaoliang89大约 5 年前
It is like fun control isn&#x27;t it? You can own firearms for self defence. But if you murder someone else cause other negative consequences, you need to take responsibility. Free! = irresponsible.
rukittenme大约 5 年前
I, for one, welcome corporate censorship of the public discourse. Because if there&#x27;s anyone I can trust its my local, multi-national brand. I love you brand!
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tibbydudeza大约 5 年前
Come on really ???.<p>He is a paranoid delusional who once claimed to be Jesus and believe that Lizard people are real ... he needs medical help.<p>No freedom of speech issue here.
zaro大约 5 年前
The thought police strikes again.
busymom0大约 5 年前
Don&#x27;t agree with much with Icke but we are on the wrong path.
IIAOPSW大约 5 年前
I&#x27;m going to paste here something I wrote a while ago. This is an technological thought experiment and an allegory for fake news and modern propaganda. I use a technological hypothetical to remove the question of if people have any agency in falling for it and the question of if it is necessary to put up with fake news as a form of free speech. With those two questions settled in the premise, we can think clearly about the core issue of the threat of effective propaganda to democracy.<p>Suppose neuroscientists and neural network researchers found an adversarial image which worked on humans. Not all humans, but at least 15% of them. The technology is developed such that by including a specially crafted banner ad image next to an article you could put an arbitrary thought in the persons mind. This opens up a very serious hack in a democracy. The technology is hard to build, but a nation state actor like China or Russia could easily replicate the technology themselves and use these banner ad images to sway elections. Like a psychological atom bomb, it is just a matter of time before every major player has it. 15% of the population is larger than the margin on nearly every election ever. A democracy which wants to survive only has two choices:<p>1. Criminalize the adversarial images and censor them from the web. Congrats. You are now in an arms race with one side making better adversarial image detectors and the other making better hidden adversarial images. In the mean time you&#x27;ve built an insanely good machine learning based censorship apparatus which sits on top of all internet traffic. Eventually the technology gets to a point where the cognitive basilisk isn&#x27;t obvious to the unaffected and people are worried that some images are being censored for their substance. The adversaries intentionally hide the patches in posts &#x2F; ads about wedge issues like guns or abortion so that taking it down looks like political censorship. While everyone agrees censoring the thought breaking images is necessary, people are rightfully scared about this apparatus being abused.<p>Maybe the cognitive basilisks are de facto censored in the sense of being de-platformed by the media (both traditional and social variants). Maybe they are state-capitalism censored in the sense of de-platforming under threat of regulation if they aren&#x27;t. Maybe we go full China with it and have a top level federal internet censor. The only real difference between these mechanisms is the technical issue of legality. For our purposes the implementation does not matter.<p>2. Don&#x27;t let people in the 15% vote. People are again rightfully scared that it could easily expand beyond 15%. A very small, very educated, very detached from the average class of people (neuroscientists) is now trusted to decide who gets to vote. All of the 15% (and quite a few in the 85%) are suspicious of them abusing this power to forward their personal political preferences. Disenfranchising people based on inherited neurological traits is extremely contentious. The question of if it is the right thing to do becomes the defining social issue of a generation.<p>A political fissure opens up. Some people prefer option 1 because they don&#x27;t consider the adversarial patches to be &quot;speech&quot; and thus don&#x27;t think there&#x27;s a free speech risk in censoring them. Some people prefer option 2 because they don&#x27;t think it is possible to win the arms race in the first case and so long as we don&#x27;t let the disenfranchisement expand beyond 15% the sin is forgivable. At the very least they think option 2 is a less slippery slope than option 1. Some people like option 1 and 2 at the same time because just do whatever it takes to fix the problem as fast as possible. The people in the 15% think the cognitive basilisks are just a made up conspiracy by the elites. Of course they think this because the cognitive basilisks told them so.<p>Then comes the disingenuous part of the fissure. Some people like option 2 but their unstated reason is because they looked at how the 15% currently votes and they think disenfranchisement will finally lead to their political party winning. Some people secretly want to keep the exploit in place because their political party happened to benefit from interference in the last election. They don&#x27;t actually have a solution but instead constantly remind you how risky and undemocratic the two options are and insist we do neither. None of the disingenuous advocates are ever moved by any arguments because their purported beliefs were always just a fig leaf over their unstated wants.<p>The debate over how to deal with this technology takes on an impassioned, repugnant, culture-war tone that we have all grown to recognize by now. What happens next I don&#x27;t know.<p>What I am proposing is that if cognitive basilisk&#x27;s exist then there is a contradiction of wants within Democracy. You must pick at most 2:<p>-Everyone gets to vote. -Nothing is ever censored. -The internet has no borders.<p>The only remaining question is do fake news and AstroTurfing bots count as cognitive basilisks?
gerland大约 5 年前
The reason why we cannot get the right balance between freedom of speech and the right to silence the &quot;abusers&quot; is that by trying to do that we are uncovering an inconvenient truth.<p>It would not be a problem to let the conspiracy theory people or ultra-left, ultra-right people speak freely if an average person would have healthy mechanism to counter the disinformation. Unfortunately those mechanisms were dismantled by the classical media in an conscious effort in the last 7+ decades.<p>Face it - the average person is taught how he should think not by the educational system, but by the media. Our current predicament is only due to information centers hoarding power that they should never get. Not saying that the educational system is great, I think it&#x27;s even worse to some degree, but we have given up the control for convenience.<p>Instead of creating a basis from science, we created a system in which the buzzwords spat out from &quot;journalists&quot; mouths are underlying the whole social discourse.<p>We cannot get the balance in the &quot;new media&quot; right, because now everybody is granted the power that no one should have in the first place. We are trying to optimize the wrong parameters.
mdszy大约 5 年前
Free speech does not mean that anyone is required to host your content.
sjwalter大约 5 年前
Man, this comment thread is really harshing my buzz.<p>So many folks here seem real eager to hype their systems and methods for ensuring all this oh-so easily identifiable misinformation has no route to most, which when implemented would stop this huge threat to our civilization. Typing up their clever ideas, full of good intentions (not being sarcastic, my default presumption is you all mean well), each author implicitly assumes their superiority over the masses who are so easily duped into believing awful and dangerous mistruths based on a few headlines boosted on Twitter. The mindset, stripped of all the complications and rhetoric and real positive intent, boils down to this: &quot;These poor fools are completely lost, already in a world of hurt, and their naivety threatens all we hold dear, and so we must protect them from themselves.&quot;<p>Already in this thread, all the usual quibbles &amp; arguments for &amp; against this particular form of censorship are being studiously re-litigated. I feel strongly enough to write internet comments about very few issues and my feelings in favour of free speech fundamentalism are making it difficult to stay out of the fray. But I will restrain myself--not because it&#x27;s a bad thing to do, but just because the ROI on everyone&#x27;s time is so low, considering the tiny likelihood that all these words spilled out here will change even one mind.<p>Instead, I will ask a question that thus far has not been raised, and that I think is fundamental to this issue:<p>Q: What problems are we trying to solve here?<p>It seems that somewhere in the recent past (if I had to ballpark it, I&#x27;d say this all began to rise sometime around 8 Nov 2016) basically everyone in society came to the agreement that misinformation is running rampant, so rampant it may be the #2 item trafficked on the web, King Porn secure in his crown. Not only do we all seem to agree that misinformation is everywhere, but we all seem to also agree that this misinformation&#x27;s impact is a massive threat to our society--the camel&#x27;s legs are shaking under the strain, and Zuck&#x27;s machine just keeps throwing straw.<p>This seems quite bizarre to me. Can someone here who&#x27;s proposed one of these Democracy Protection Apparatuses tell me what it is y&#x27;all&#x27;re trying to fix?<p>Make no mistake--I am quite aware that basically every public communications channel, not just the web but every channel, is under pressure from a constant flood of messaging aimed at literally changing minds, changing what and how we all think about this concern or that. I am quite well apprised of how the anti-vaxxers spread their wild, unbelievable propaganda, leveraging facebook moms&#x27; groups and instagram knitting forums to spread their evil &amp; subversive messages. I know all about how the wily Ruskies have become the world&#x27;s greatest social media influencers imaginable, who can take a shoestring budget that couldn&#x27;t cover a major campaign&#x27;s one day hotel spend and swing the most important election on earth.<p>Of course, as with the printing press and radio and television and fax machines and even pagers, I completely believe, based on solid evidence, that power factions attempt to leverage all broadly-adopted comms channels to their own selfish ends. I&#x27;m not denying that.<p>But can anyone here clearly identify what problem is right now such a huge concern that we should cheer on a corporation--one that wields power over our lives like no other ever has--as it unilaterally decides what we can and cannot here?<p>I mean, Susan&#x27;s big reason here has been laid out explicitly: The &#x27;rony pandemic is of such great concern that our ears should be blocked off from any sound that doesn&#x27;t emanate from Official Authority, in this case, the WHO, an organization which five months ago nobody cared about at all and now everyone knows is about as credible as The National Enquirer (todo: insert BatBoy joke).<p>I mean, to me it is clearly obvious that accepting censorship is a huge risk. I&#x27;m not crazy, I don&#x27;t think there should be literally zero restriction on free speech. The world would be a mess of scams were fraud permissible, for instance. But the risks censorship brings are huge and asymmetric--only us little people suffer when the surveillance and enforcement mechanisms censorship requires are abused. The wealthy and connected will always have more access to information than we do. When the abuse happens, it will always be to their benefit, because they either are the censors themselves or they control the censors. As we stand to lose the most when censorship is abused, we should have an extremely high bar for any justification for it. (Just think about that phrase, &quot;dangerous information,&quot; for a second--we&#x27;re not talking nuclear launch codes, we&#x27;re talking questioning public policy, this is what Susan thinks is dangerous. Clearly she thinks very little of us.)<p>Censorship is power. Actually, censorship is the root of the power hierarchy. It&#x27;s the most important tool in the shed, as a tractor is to a farmer so is censorship to Team Elite.<p>They want to control our minds. And many people in here are cheering them on.
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Barrin92大约 5 年前
he deserved to be kicked off for his virulent antisemitism and Holocaust denial a long time ago, guess the pandemic conspiracies did him in. Good riddance.
sunseb大约 5 年前
I despise David Icke but I think platforms like YouTube or Facebook should remain neutral. It&#x27;s not their job to tell us what people should be looking at or not. Then what? We end up like China where we can only browse government propaganda?
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centimeter大约 5 年前
I&#x27;d previously dismissed him as a quack, but hey, now I&#x27;m thinking maybe he&#x27;s onto something.
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pdog大约 5 年前
The website that accounts for a huge chunk of global internet traffic censoring 5G videos feels a little too on the nose to me.
endgame大约 5 年前
I see no way that this power, first applied to uncontroversially-bad information, will ever be misused.<p>What happened to &quot;organise _the world&#x27;s_ information, and make it _accessible_ and useful&quot;?
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danieltillett大约 5 年前
Isn’t the real problem that YouTube is basically a utility service, but one that makes a loss for the parent company.<p>The discussion we should be making is not if YouTube should censor people, but if it should be turned into a regulated utility like a phone or electricity company. Of course if this is decision we make don’t be surprised if Google shuts down the service.
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catalogia大约 5 年前
David Icke has been a kook for as long as I can remember. People laughed at him, they didn&#x27;t fear him. Now he&#x27;s deplatformed, now he&#x27;s feared.<p>Has our society become so fragile that once harmless kooks are now considered a threat to civil order?
charred_toast大约 5 年前
@imgabe says it well in this comment section:<p>&gt; YouTube has clear policies prohibiting any content that disputes the existence and transmission of Covid-19 as described by the WHO [World Health Organization] and the NHS [the U.K&#x27;s healthcare system] [emphasis added]<p>The WHO at least has been flat out wrong several times during this pandemic, such as telling people not to wear masks. Anointing one agency as the sole source of truth and censoring anything that contradicts it is not going to lead to a good outcome. People need to be able to question authorities.
throwawaysea大约 5 年前
Why You Should Oppose The Censorship Of David Icke (Hint: It’s Got Nothing To Do With Icke)<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;@caityjohnstone&#x2F;why-you-should-oppose-the-censorship-of-david-icke-hint-its-got-nothing-to-do-with-icke-4cb72d19481c" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;medium.com&#x2F;@caityjohnstone&#x2F;why-you-should-oppose-the...</a><p>&gt; A truly free being does not need an alliance of plutocrats and government agencies to protect their mind from David Icke. A truly free being does not want an alliance of plutocrats and government agencies to exert any control whatsoever over what ideas they are permitted to share and what thoughts they are permitted to think. A truly free being opposes with all their might any attempt to lock in a paradigm where human communication (and thereby thought) is controlled by vast unaccountable power structures which benefit from the absence of dissent.<p>&gt; Be a truly free being. Oppose this intrusion into your mental sovereignty.