New 13-inch MacBook Pro

Bringing back the escape key is such a admission of their original screw up. I'm glad they admitted it and reversed the design decision. But I'm still on a 2012 15" MacBook that's running strong. I normally would have updated but using my work 15" has been horrific between the dongles, the keyboard randomly dropping keys (last week "G" would not work, now it's back. The most infuriating thing about the touch bar, out of many things, is the fact that the Escape Key doesn't line up with the upper left, it's offset. So decades of muscle memory has to change by s quarter inch. What a pain in the ass. Yes I'm a vi user.

I was curious how the 13 inch was priced so I compared it to a new Dell XPS 13. Dell has a better processor (maybe, [2]) , but I couldn&#x27;t find the option to upgrade the Dell to 4TB internal SSD, so I compared both with the 2 TB option. Ram is the same at 32GB.<p>Dell came out to $2399[0] USD and Apple came out to $2999[1] USD.<p>Dell Pros:<p>* Row of function buttons (I&#x27;ve used BTT to customize my touch-bar to the point where it&#x27;s a little bit of a tossup, but years of muscle memory still haunt me)<p>* Better processor (maybe [2])<p>* Cheaper<p>* MicroSD reader<p>Apple Pros:<p>* Better Trackpad<p>* More Ports (Upgraded Dell only has 2 USB-C, while Upgraded MBP has 4)<p>* Better hardware support<p>* Better resale value<p>Objectively, seems to me that list used to be a lot longer on the Apple side. IMHO I think the Touch Bar disappointment is probably over dramatized by developers, it&#x27;s not too bad a couple years in and BTT has made it so I can run whatever macros I want in any application, so overall tossup in my mind. I still miss mag-safe adapters though. I still don&#x27;t understand that decision.<p>Also, I&#x27;m happy with the new Magic Keyboard. I have the 16 inch MBP right now, and I will say that even though I prefer the travel of the &#x27;12-&#x27;15 era keyboards, this typing experience is far superior than the faulty butterfly keys.<p>I&#x27;m hoping given how they&#x27;ve walked the keyboard back, and how the new Mac Pro is actually a Pro machine that they&#x27;re headed back in the right direction (post Jony Ive). A $600 price difference for this machine is probably worth it in my mind, just given my experience with resale value, longevity and lack of competitors, but there&#x27;s a lot of room improvement.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imgur.com&#x2F;a&#x2F;p6RA9HF" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imgur.com&#x2F;a&#x2F;p6RA9HF</a><p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imgur.com&#x2F;a&#x2F;f6ii7h9" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imgur.com&#x2F;a&#x2F;f6ii7h9</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23067768" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23067768</a>

I&#x27;ve a macbook pro 13&#x27; 2017 - It&#x27;s the worst laptop I&#x27;ve used in the past 10 years. It continuously gets smoking hot lot of fan noise and very often kernel panics. I have lost faith in apple macbook especially when price to hardware ratio is higher than anyone else in the industry I expect the machine to just work seamlessly. I&#x27;m very soon disposing the laptop and buy a dell or a thinkpad. I&#x27;m not looking at apple again for a very long time at least for macbooks

Funny anecdote: Apple offers a trade-in when buying a new Macbook. I decided to have a look.<p>I entered the serial number of my Macbook Air 11&quot; (Late 2010). I confirmed that it boots up, has no defects, has no optical faults and that I will include the power supply.<p>Apple offered 10€ ($12).<p>Yay?!<p>PS: This ancient notebook runs macOS High Sierra with the current 2020-2 security patch and sells for an astonishing 200€ on eBay.

It looks like the frustrations just add up when you look at different factors.<p>In this lineup, the first two models are the 8th generation processors whereas the top model (starting at $1799) is the one with the latest 10th generation processors (but that still comes with a stingy 512GB SSD).<p>Another thing is that SSD storage on Apple Macs is expensive, and they can no longer be upgraded after purchase (since they have the T2 chip and are soldered on to the logic board). This would be kinda ok to put up with just for the combination of hardware and software, but poorly designed software makes the experience worse. Photos and videos take up a lot of space, and Apple&#x27;s default app, Photos really sucks. You can&#x27;t move the photos library to an external (cheaper hard) drive and live peacefully. If you do, then you might find yourself unable to eject said drive because there are background processes that launch themselves and keep your photos library in use even if nothing has changed and even when you&#x27;ve let them run for a day or a few days before to finish). Apple seems to be doing a terrible job on the software front (I don&#x27;t even want to talk about other issues in Catalina). Is there any other alternative for photos on Mac that works well and can also import photos and videos from iOS devices (on to an external drive)?

A little disappointed it’s not the rumoured 14” model as I’ve been looking to replace both my 15” and 13” MacBooks.<p>Also, regarding other comments on “just” the 4 core CPU - it’s probably all they could squeeze in without having to redesign the chassis&#x2F;thermal design. I’m going to hold off for a tear down to see if they have improved the cooling system like they did (Or claimed to) with the 16” version.

I decided to switch back to the (new) MacBook Air instead. I feel that had the butterfly fiasco never happened, this generation of laptops may have just dumped the Touch Bar entirely, but instead, there were so many general keyboard complaints (escape key specifically, general Touch Bar complaints, and of course the butterfly keyboard complaints), that it is reasonable that they are trying to see if this new &quot;reduced&quot; Touch Bar will stick, but it&#x27;s just not for me. I feel that the fact that the Touch Bar has not made its way into any other keyboard (desktop keyboards or even iPad keyboards), is somewhat of an admission that it&#x27;s not that crucial.<p>It&#x27;s a really weird feeling, because on the Air the keyboard has once again returned to just being something I don&#x27;t think about. I&#x27;m not ecstatic or something. Just overnight I stopped getting infuriated at my machine and feeling like a complete idiot when I&#x27;d see an email where I sent &quot;butt&quot; instead of &quot;but&quot; due to repeated keys. But it&#x27;s like fixing a dead pixel, my experience is not amazing now, it&#x27;s just not an issue anymore.<p>The problem I&#x27;ve always had with the Touch Bar is that I&#x27;d lightly brush some random button and all of sudden I would have triggered some action. When I first got a Touch Bar MacBook Pro, I could swear we had some weird state-resetting bug in our website. Turned out, I would just every so often accidentally hit the refresh button on the Touch Bar. Do &quot;normal people&quot; <i>ever refresh</i> a website? I feel that refresh has basically become a pro-level feature now for development. Anyways, I ended up just manually removing just about every button from the Touch Bar.<p>So, back to where we were 3 years ago as far as I&#x27;m concerned (on the Air).

Very interesting. I had assumed I&#x27;d buy a 13&quot; Pro as a personal laptop replacement for my 2011 Air when they updated the keyboard.<p>However, when the 2020 Air dropped, I snapped one up because it ticked all the boxes, and I really don&#x27;t need the &quot;power&quot; of the Pro, especially given its presumed expense.<p>I bought a loaded Air with 512gb which was I think $1650.<p>Speccing out the Pro, the pricepoint for a similar machine is actually $1600; $50 <i>cheaper</i>.<p>Air is 1.2ghz quad core i7 10th gen &#x2F; 16gb 3733mhz memory &#x2F; 512gb<p>Pro is 1.4ghz quad core i5 8th gen &#x2F; 16gb 2133mhz memory &#x2F; 512gb.<p>In the Pro, you also get the touch bar (for better or for worse; I kind of like it, but no big deal). But its&#x27; also a heavier, thicker machine.<p>Also, that Pro is limited in the same way my Air is -- only 2 ports.<p>So I suspect it&#x27;s kind of a wash. I bet we&#x27;ll start seeing benchmarks soon comparing these 2 machines. I haven&#x27;t dug into bus speed or cache amounts, but it&#x27;s interesting how much faster the RAM on the Air is; I&#x27;m guessing slower bus speed but a higher multiple or something?<p>For my (home) use case, it really doesn&#x27;t much matter, I just figured an &#x27;acceptable&#x27; Pro would be $1800+, and figured the Air would be more in the $1400 range. FWIW I only really paid for the $150 CPU upgrade on the Air to get it a couple weeks sooner, I&#x27;m sure the 1.1ghz quad core i5 was the sweet spot in the lineup for price&#x2F;performance.

So glad they finally got rid of the butterfly keyboard! That said, I cannot wait until they retire the Touch Bar.

Please Apple, let me choose one without touchbar. I have had a touchbar for over a year now and still haven’t figured out any use for it.<p>Edit: spelling

What I find irritating is the fact that you have to get the 2ghz CPU in order to be able to get 32gb RAM. It feels like artificial price inflation because the refresh is definitely not as exciting as people had hoped (no 14&quot; micro LED screen, like every single &quot;leak&quot; suggested).<p>Also, the base CPU is an 8th gen chip, you need to fork out a lot of extra $$$ to get to 10th gen.

I’ve been dreaming of a 32G 13” for years but now that it’s here I wish it were 64G. This for me sums up the problem with the 13” offering. Attractive form factor (for me), always 2-4 years behind on specs.<p>Apple apparently thinks that smaller form factor means the audience is “junior pro” or something. People who want smaller laptops are probably also running proportionally smaller workloads, thinks Apple. It makes zero sense to me.

Sitting in front of my beloved 2013 MBP 15&quot;. Reading &quot;the new inverted T-arrangement for arrow keys&quot;. Looking down at my keyboard. Seeing said inverted T-arrangement on my seven year old MBP.<p>Deception and lies.

The problem with the touchbar is that you cannot build muscle memory with it. You have to look down to do anything with it. That goes against the entire UX of a keyboard. How Apple hasn’t understood that basic fact yet is beyond me. This new MacBook is nothing special. A Ryzen 4000HS surface is more attractive now. The cheaper CPU Ryzen has 8 cores and is faster than the current 16” 6 core i7. Time to get rid of Intel and it’s over heating 14nm CPU’s.

Interesting to see they upgraded the RAM, but still kept it LPDDR3, even though all other Macs have DDR4 (except for the MacBook Air, which as LPDDR4X). At this price point I would honestly expect DDR4 in a &quot;Pro&quot; machine.

Disappointed we didn&#x27;t see a 14&quot; in a 13.3&quot; body, or anything otherwise exciting here.<p>I for one prefer the butterfly keyboard. So the magic keyboard is at best a neutral move (I think a downgrade). For those folks who loathe the butterfly, I&#x27;m sure they&#x27;ll be delighted at a 13&quot; with the new magic keyboard. For me, it looks like the 2018 will continue to be on my desk. Happy that I maxed it at time of purchase.<p>Maybe an ARM Macbook in 2021 is in my future.

When you consider that Apple had a 12” Macbook (w&#x2F; Retina Display) in the lineup 5 years ago the current lineup is a bit disappointing.<p>Also the distinction between the Air and the 13” Macbook is not clear.<p>That said: this is a decent update for a decent laptop and I’m looking forward to what is to come. The rumors re 14” form factor and ARM based Macbooks do sound intriguing.<p>In the meantime I think the recommendation re when to buy a new Mac is as it always has been: when you need one. Don’t wait for a specific update or rumor, otherwise you might have to wait for years in some cases :)

I don&#x27;t know why people in this thread, keep comparing macbooks to dell xps. they&#x27;re not equivalent. Thinkpad&#x27;s X &amp; T series are probably the only machines hardware wise that compare to macbook from durability and working out of the box with Linux. a t490 released last year, has better specs than the new 13&quot; macbook. And I will applaud apple for bringing back a saner keyboard n eSC key.

Anyone have any insight into why they might not have included &quot;Wi-Fi 6&quot; aka 802.11ax? I was under the impression that it&#x27;s current get now even if there&#x27;s not a lot of support yet.<p>Are we still lacking good chipsets with support?

Is the headphone jack still on the right? (Rhetorical question.)<p>Still an insane choice as headphones have their wires on the left ear so when on my work macbook i have a wire either under or over my wrists. (Or behind the display, which shortens cable length significantly and pulls a sharp angle which will ruin my Sony MDR 7506 soon enough.

The press release lost me at &#x27;physical escape key&#x27;. I remember I had the same feeling seeing the ads for iPhone 3g with &#x27;copy&#x2F;paste&#x27;. Not many companies in the world can get away with advertising a technology that existed for decades as top product features in current lineup.<p>Back to Mac laptops, hardware is really not that exciting. It feels as the one major thing Apple has over the competition is macOS. So the combination of hardware and software is still the best one on the market (like IBM P series laptops were in the decade before Lenovo took over).

Good that they went for more less the same setup as in 16 inch model. The escape key and old keyboard switches really do make the difference for me.

Really glad I bought this year&#x27;s MacBook Air instead of waiting for this. Seems like a much better deal to me

Does this use the 2020 redesigned keyboard with longer travel? That&#x27;s literally the only thing I care about that they can potentially change.

I recently bought the 2020 Macbook Air after breaking my 2017 (18?) Macbook Pro. No touch bar, new &quot;magic&quot; keyboard.<p>Keyboard is great. I think I still prefer the chiclet keys but these are close enough. Function row is far superior to the touch bar. The touch ID button is great too. Makes using 1password much more convenient.<p>Small battery (which means fast charge times) and long battery life are huge for me. I&#x27;ve got 8 1&#x2F;2 hours remaining on 91% after &gt;1 hour of usage.<p>I unfortunately haven&#x27;t done any local development on the machine. I ssh into a linux machine on the network. But I don&#x27;t think the fans ever spin up. And it never feels hot to the touch.<p>I spent two weeks doing remote dev work with a 2012 Macbook Air and another week doing remote dev work with the 2020 Macbook Air. Since processing power was irrelevant my experience between the two was mixed. The 2020 Air has a better trackpad and screen. But the 2012 Air has the better keyboard. I could have used the 2012 for the rest of my life had it had a better screen.<p>Anyway... just some thoughts for anyone looking for a new macbook.

Dear Apple... I will pay $200 extra for the option of a keyboard with physical function keys and no touchbar.<p>Sincerely, Disappointed Customer.

Bragging about a &quot;dedicated escape key&quot;, T-shaped arrow pad and better keyboard in the marketing materials for this thing is the very definition of chutzpah.

Another year, another laughable release with the same BS language trying to dazzle &quot;Pro&quot; wanna-be&#x27;s. There is nothing Pro about these machines.

$1800 if you want more than 2 ports (one of which is for charging). Between this and the Touch Bar, I’ll probably get an MBA instead to replace my 2017 Pro.

I was so looking forward to the rumored 14-inch MBP, in which case I would have upgraded my MBP Retina, 13-inch, Early 2015.<p>Also, having no option for a keyboard with function keys on any MBP model anymore is just disappointing. Why are they so stubborn with that touchbar?!

What&#x27;s the real value in paying more for this compared to getting a new MacBook Air?

My new 16 inch crashes once every 48-72 hours. Been pretty upset with it so far.

The escape button escaped from the touchbar!

$2k for an i5? No thanks. I can max out a HP Spectre x360 with an i7, 16GB, 4K OLED touchscreen, and 2TB NVMe and come in under $1900. Plus its lighter, has better battery life, better cameras, and a better keyboard. Get it with just the 256GB NVMe, and I can pare that down to $1570.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;store.hp.com&#x2F;us&#x2F;en&#x2F;mdp&#x2F;spectre-x360-211501--1" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;store.hp.com&#x2F;us&#x2F;en&#x2F;mdp&#x2F;spectre-x360-211501--1</a>

What about the quality of the webcam?<p>I need to do a lot of video conferencing nowadays, and the macbook air 2020 webcam is worse than the rear facing camera of a Nokia 3210.

It’s not easy to iterate in hardware and even harder to go back on a failed design. but agreed that Touch Bar needs to be revisited somehow.

If they were serious about speed, they&#x27;d have something to show regarding how well they can manage core temperatures.

So, no model with physical F-keys available anymore… touchbar only.

Is it just me or is Apple starting to fall woefully behind non-mac hardware competitors in both price and perf?<p>I used to look forward to these announcements, now it&#x27;s just &#x27;we upgraded to a +1 generation config (still 1-2 generations behind what others are doing), that&#x27;ll be 2000 bucks thanks&#x27;. Advertising 4 cores and 2018 Iris graphics as if it&#x27;s some kind of achievement, when competitors have full dGpu solutions and 6 cores in same sized chassis at the same price bracket. They&#x27;re taking a bit of a piss at this point.

Now all Apple laptops feature magic keyboards. Butterfly switches are no more!<p>I’m not convinced by the value of the thirteen inch pro versus the air. Same screen size, keyboard, and ports. Similar upgrade path.<p>I know that not all i5&#x2F;i7 etc are created equal, and the 13 inch pro uses chips that draw more power, but could someone explain the more concrete difference in performance that a user would see day to day?

I have Macbook Pro 13 inch model from 2013 and was really looking forward to upgrading to this year&#x27;s rumored Macbook Pro 14 inch laptop. Sigh! Now I will wait another year. I don&#x27;t see anything in this refreshed Macbook Pro 13 inch model that is worth upgrading from my current Macbook.

I&#x27;m no fan of the TouchBar but once I rearranged it to my liking with BetterTouchTool[0], at least it&#x27;s out of my way and has a modicum of usefulness.<p>The Escape key is the one key that even BTT didn&#x27;t fix… because accidentally hitting the key does actions. I like to rest the fingers of my left hand around the upper-left corner of the keyboard, relying on touch. And triggering the escape key without pressing has been very annoying.<p>So seeing Apple bring back the hardware escape key fixes most of my gripes. The other improvement I&#x27;d like to see is force-touch on the touchbar. That would require some pressing in order to prevent triggering actions by simply brushing the fingers.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;folivora.ai" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;folivora.ai</a>

It&#x27;s astonishing how far the MBP has fallen in ten years. My 2010 MBP was and still is the perfect laptop design. Look what Apple has taken away from us: MagSafe, SD card slot, optical audio I&#x2F;O, RJ45, USB-A, even the top row of our keyboards. What have we gained? The same internal advances that are in every other computer, a gimmicky touch bar, fragile keyboard mechanism, and USB-C.<p>What&#x27;s really sad is that none of this decline was necessary. All they had to do was leave the perfect laptop alone, and go on upgrading the internals. Were they selling the 2010-2012 MBPs at a loss or something?

&gt;Magic Keyboard also features a physical Escape key<p>Physical escape is what we all need right now, but like people with pre-Magic Keyboard touch bars, we&#x27;re all going to have to settle for mental Escape for a while.

Hmm. If this had a ~14&quot; display in roughly the current chassis size then it would be an instant buy for me. Now I&#x27;m not sure - is the 14&quot; still happening? Or should I go for this one?

I’ve been a Big Mac user for the last 7 years or so. I initially moved over from Linux after experiencing the ease of the OSX operating system when working in software development without the overhead of maintaining something like Arch Linux.<p>I’m now looking at system76 and Pop!_OS for my next machine. They seem to be doing a really good job of creating compelling hardware and software that works well together. From the sounds of it, Pop!_OS does a really good job creating that Apple “just works” experience without all the cruft.

Just a spec bump and addition of the Magic Keyboard. Sure, 10th gen CPU and up to 4TB&#x2F;32GB, but no 6-core CPU, no 14&quot; screen. A lot of people are going to be disappointed.

I bought an Honor Magicbook for half the price. It&#x27;s lightweight, has a beautiful case, proper touchpad (so I don&#x27;t use my external apple touchpad anymore), nice keyboard, long battery life, and I can run whatever OS I want on it (I&#x27;m using Ubuntu atm, but I might try Fedora). It has usb-c, usb-a, hdmi, and headphone jacks. Everything just works.<p>I gave up on Mac when they broke their keyboards and started locking me out of everything. Once my macbook died, I never looked back.

I wonder how many people buying Macbook Pro&#x27;s this year are trying to load up before Apple starts the ARM migration, thereby avoiding what may be a rough first year or two

Everyone whined about the touchbar and keyboard of the more recent models a lot. But personally, I was fine with them. I don&#x27;t really have a preference between the non-touchbar vs. touchbar models. Same goes for butterfly vs. scissor keyboards. They were all fine for me.<p>My person MBP is from 2015 and I&#x27;ve had a 2018 and 2017 15&quot; MBP (with touchbar&#x2F;butterfly switches) for work and they&#x27;ve all been thoroughly acceptable.

A bit disappointing the 32GB ram option is only available on the £1,799 model (which, when added, bumps the price to £2,199)<p>Interestingly on that model the RAM is running at a higher speed (3733MHz LPDDR4X vs. 2133MHz LPDDR3 memory)<p>I&#x27;m still running my MBP from 2015 which is mostly fine, but Firefox and co. eat the RAM so would be good for an update. Although for work I use the 16&quot; 2019 model with 32GB and Firefox uses 27GB of that quite easily...<p>&gt; <i>djhworld</i>

I don&#x27;t get the craze. Just remap caps lock. If you use ESC enough to complain, caps lock is the more ergonomic location anyway.

The great things:<p>The new keyboard is always welcome. The butterfly keyboard was a huge pain. An escape key is definitely something that most of us have been waiting for !<p>The bad: I don&#x27;t get it why Apple is still sticking with a sub-standard 720p facetime camera when they can easily upgrade that. For this video-call covid situation, a nice camera would have been nice

What I am really hoping for is a 14&quot; laptop that includes a discrete GPU. Hopefully an Nvidia one to allow CUDA work.

Only two USB-C ports?!? That&#x27;s really disappointing, I always have a yubikey in one so that only leaves one free.<p>Seeing this, I&#x27;m actually more inclined to get the Air since it has faster ram, a newer processor, and no touch bar. (I&#x27;d love 32gb but at Apple prices I could VPN to a custom built rig and still be under budget)

Is it right about time to switch to Catalina? I was excited until I read “comes with Catalina”. Suggestions?

&gt;Magic Keyboard also features a physical Escape key<p>Maybe next year we&#x27;ll get a new feature, physical F1 key.

Is there a good way to figure out how much performance is best suited?<p>I’m considering an upgrade to my 2013 MBP retina and it would be great to know how different configurations play out in terms of speed and battery life.<p>Typical benchmarks are quite difficult to translate to real life usage.

To me this pricing sits too closely with the iPad Pro plus magic keyboard, which Apple has been trying to sell as good enough to be your next Computer. What’s also puzzling is that the new iPad Pro and magic keyboard combo is so heavy it’s basically a laptop.

I&#x27;m still using the 2015 Macbook Pro (i7, 16GB RAM, 512 SSD) with an iPhone 6S to supplement.<p>So far, there has not been a reason to upgrade to any newer version of each. Maybe I&#x27;m just one of those in a small group that is content with the current experience.

I always find it so weird with laptops and TVs that they have loads of glossy pictures of just the screen, with some colourful picture, that I&#x27;m looking at on my monitor.<p>Are people looking at this and thinking &quot;that is so much better than my monitor&quot;?

Still limited to 2 USB&#x2F;TB ports on the base model (and precious little else). Want more than that and you&#x27;re paying a minimum of $1800.<p>Between limited ports and soldered in storage&#x2F;memory, it feels like Apple has gone all-in on disposable computers.

Disappointing. Not 14&quot;, bezels look like they are from the 90&#x27;s and the machine is rather heavy.<p>I am switching to XPS 13 developer edition. Goodbye Apple.<p>Hello Linux and a menu key on my keyboard. The greatest key that no one knows about.

What are the most essential or coolest add-ons to get for a new MacBook Pro?<p>Is there a good all-or-many-in-one dongle with several USB or other ports?<p>Are the any options for extra power supplies?<p>Is there a good dock for using it with a big display on a desktop?

I bought this in the high end configuration To be my primary personal computer. I haven’t figured out what dock I’m going to buy yet, but will definitely be looking for a one-plug-for-everything setup.

&quot;the best typing experience ever on a Mac notebook&quot;<p>I guess this is a bit subjective, but a greatly prefer the keyboard on my 2010 MBP to the latest &quot;magic&quot; keyboard in the 16&#x27; MBPs

so the new -macbook air has very poor cooling and throttles the cpu well below max capacity. -macbook 13&quot; now costs 1800 solely for an up to date processor, a whopping 400$ to add 16gb of ram, no speaker upgrade, no 14&quot; screen, no mini-led -macbook 16&quot; seems like a good option but I returned it because it&#x27;s just too heavy more unbearably so than the previous 15&quot; I spent 3 years with. It is also already deprecated since the 10th gen upgrade and mini-led are around the corner

So now all the MacBook Pro 13&#x27;s have no physical function keys?

I literally just bought a new 13&quot; macbook pro. It arrived just a few days ago! Do anyone know if they have any type of exchange service or am i stuck with the one a bought?

I have to work with a Windows&#x2F;Linux laptop and a MacBook Pro. It&#x27;s very inconvenient when the MBP keyboard doesn&#x27;t have Home, End, PageUp, PageDown and Delete.

I am surprised to don&#x27;t see so much difference between the 13&quot; and 16&quot; prices. Other than that, good movement from Apple, listening to what the people wanted.

I just don&#x27;t understand what market Apple thinks they are targeting with the past few years of MacBook Pro releases, and I say this while on an early 2015 13&quot; Pro.<p>If the Pro line is truly meant for professionals what does apple think they are accomplishing by getting rid of features that set them apart from the competition?<p>As a former Thinkpad x220 user the 2015&#x27;s keys are not as good but they are good enough. When I contrast that to the absolutely horrendous keyboard on the 2017 model, I long for 2015 style keys with their somewhat existent key travel. The fact that a dedicated escape key was missing on the first keyboard revision baffles me, and makes me wonder what is going on in product design at Apple. I have not experienced their newest revision of the keyboard on the 16&quot; so I cannot speak to that, but it seems to be received more positively than the 2017 model.<p>If the touch-bar were there to compliment the function keys instead of replace them I don&#x27;t think it would be nearly as hated. As alexggordon mentioned, with BTT[0] much of the functionality of missing function keys is restored but why is third party software needed to give back full functionality on what is supposed to be a laptop for professionals?<p>On the IO port front, the loss of MagSafe charging is still felt, and while there are MagSafe like adapters for USB-C, I ask myself why does each new generation feel full of unneeded and unwanted compromise? Why can&#x27;t Apple just stop at replacing the USB-3.0 &amp; Thunderbolt ports with USB-C? A dongle for ethernet makes sense, a dongle for what seems to be everything is madness.<p>And what is Apples obsession with making their laptops ever-thinner? The Pro&#x27;s are not netbooks from the early 2010s that you can fit in your pocket. Their obsession with making each generation thinner seems to cause thermal throttling, with the culprit always being... <i>insufficient cooling</i>. Shocker. Yet this is supposed to be laptop for professionals?<p>This isn&#x27;t to say there haven&#x27;t been improvements. Thinner bezels are always welcome and Apple clearly puts a great amount of thought into their displays and it does not go unnoticed. In addition MacBooks only seem to get better at increasing battery life at levels above the competition.<p>For the time being the <i>it just works</i> factor of Mac OS and being able to use almost any linux package&#x2F;program thanks to homebrew will probably keep me as a user, but I can&#x27;t help but notice their <i>Pro</i> lineup seems to less and less useful for professionals and makes me wonder who Apple thinks wants any of these changes.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;folivora.ai&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;folivora.ai&#x2F;</a>

So the question becomes now: who is buying this instead of a thinkpad&#x2F;Linux equivalent laptop? Who is coming back to OSX now that the keyboards are better?

The Apple Tax is becoming so ridiculous even the hardcore fans are getting pissed..<p>The price&#x2F;specs don&#x27;t make any sense even when compared to Apple a couple years ago.

For the ppl complaining about the ESC key, real vi users use a separate racing wheel with haptic feedback to get back to normal mode.

I was hoping for a 14&quot; version. Let&#x27;s wait for the next version either with ARM or AMD CPUs and better graphics.

Happy to see they&#x27;re back to having a physical escape key. That&#x27;s my biggest gripe with my current 13&quot;.

If only it had an AMD processor and Nvidia GPU, then we might see some actual improvement to user experience.

Someone else has probably mentioned this, but looks like they&#x27;re trying to sell off old inventory (8th gen, two ports, etc.) with the lower spec versions. Hopefully they&#x27;ll refine the product line once those are all gone.<p>Coming from a 2010 MacBook Pro, I&#x27;ll be stoked to snag one of the higher end 13&quot; Pros sometime this year. The 16&quot; just isn&#x27;t portable enough for my taste unfortunately.

Why is anyone excited about a new MacBook? I&#x27;d be excited to know they make them last over 5 years.

₹200,000 indian rupee for 16inch model which is 2399$, ₹175,000 for 1799$ 13inch. Bad pricing will pass.

:&#x2F;... no 14”. Still not a a proper FaceTime camera. Maybe they’ll announce something during wwdc

The base 1299 model offers a three year old punt 1.4GhZ 8th gen processors and DDR3 ram .

&quot;the new inverted-“T” arrangement&quot;.<p>ROFL.

&gt; Better Trackpad<p>I&#x27;ve been using Dell for the last 6 months. This is the deal-breaker for me.

really gotta love how &quot;Physical Escape Key&quot; is a feature they promote now.

No one will acknowledge the use of &quot;faster performance&quot;? Alright.

Someone reading this thread would wonder how Apple is still in business.

Honestly, the take away from these discussions is to get a desktop PC.

Wait...is that a hard escape key on there?! Emacs users rejoice! :)

Man, it&#x27;s a really good thing none of us are using video conferencing much these days, otherwise it would be really embarrassing for Apple to release a laptop with a 720p webcam.

I like how dota2 gameplay was featured on there!

No 14” ... why even bother? Major fail by Apple.

Is there any good use of touch bar for coders?

Still the shitty touch bar - no thank you.

What&#x27;s the CPU model number and TDP?

Can we comment on the web design on the page?<p>That mouseover highlight and share option is obnoxious. It&#x27;s strange that Apple went that route.

Wake me up when the new Macbook has more ports and better cooling.. the other improvements seem a little superficial.

I actually think it’s just a way to get the ordered components out of inventory.<p>No big announcement, 14” will come at wwdc

I’d love to hear anyone’s experience who has recently switched away from, or to a Mac.<p>Nice to see pro class features:<p>- 32 GB Ram is overdue, nice speed.<p>- 4 years to get a working keyboard that is reliable.<p>Missing pro class features:<p>- Selling a 10th gen CPU 9 months after it’s released at full price is disappointing.<p>- No 6 core option like Dell or Lenovo.<p>- The MacBook Pro is the first laptop that has claimed its pro, but has never offered its own docking solution. Surprising for a company that likes proprietary connectors. Professionals quite often dock to a desktop setup.<p>- Not sure if the battery life can be trusted on the i7. I have yet to own an i7 13” MBP that delivers battery life as advertised.<p>- Not going to a 14” (or waiting for the last possible moment to switch to 14”) is a potential big miss. Lenovo and others have this figured out.<p>- Unlike the MacBook Air, the MacBook Pro did not evolve its 13” design to offer something. The a Dell XPS 13 seems to have and offers a compelling package.<p>Having carried a MacBook for the better part of 15 years.. I switched when Windows Vista arrived and destroyed my computing environment with forced upgrades, In terms of performance and reliability, the 2014 13” i7 MacBook Pro could be the peak of Apple laptop quality and performance.<p>After 2015, the MBP continued its eating disorder obsession with thinness, which invited thermal issues as well as a keyboard that was never really ready for the real or professional world.<p>Current setup:<p>I purchased a i9 15” MBP a little over a year ago with 32 GB RAM. The ram has been nice, otherwise its generally been underwhelming and disappointing.<p>When picking this up, the Apple employee asked if I was excited because he personally hadn’t see many of this spec sold. I mentioned to him after ones 10th or 15th laptop, you are more buying the death of a new device down the road.. than buying a new laptop... and I wasn’t looking forward to migrating.<p>So far, it has needed a replaced screen, battery, keyboard. It suffers like many from the phantom kernel_task cpu issue if you plug the power and an accessory on the left side of the laptop that instantly goes away if you plug in one on each side. I might tolerate this from an inferiorly priced machine. I carry a large PD battery to top up the 3-4 hour battery life and keep the laptop charged when carrying it between meetings.<p>I wonder if it’s normal for so many of my MacBooks to have gone in for repair, so many times, even though they remain in flawless condition physically years later.<p>I don’t buy a laptop, I buy a warranty and a guarantee of a working laptop so my laptop is can become invisible, just work, etc.<p>All this.. to say I tried out Ubuntu 20 last week on a Lenovo Tiny PC. Which turned into 2 monitors. And multiple days of higher productivity than I may have had in a very long time. No fighting with docker, only using. It feels like the clarity older OS X environments provided.<p>I expected to try out windows again because I like the Surface Pro so much.<p>Now I’m only using the MacBook for business&#x2F;research&#x2F;communication tasks, no more external screens or keyboard, and no longer development and it’s much more enjoyable to use.<p>I’m seeing many who were early converts to the Mac moving back to X1 Carbons and XPS 13’s and the comments here are encouraging for me to consider other options.

Until you remove the touchbar and let me run Linux on it, I will NOT give you a penny.

Until you remove the touchbar and let me run linux on it, I will NOT give you a penny.

I recently got an 11&quot; ipad pro with the new keyboard&#x2F;touchpad. After using it for some time, I don&#x27;t think I&#x27;ll have a need for a personal mpb anymore. I have a tower with windows&#x2F;linux and a 1080ti for heavy lifting when needed. There&#x27;s just a freeing feeling to getting a device with a small form factor that can be just a screen if needed.

What&#x27;s with the 8th gen processors on the first two models? also the Dota2 screenshot is cool hah

summary: minimally updated cpu and storage. AND WE PUT BACK THE ESCAPE KEY LOT AT THE NICE PICURE (but don&#x27;t us to explicitly say it). also we swear the keyboard might be fixed this time and we will leave you hanging if there&#x27;s still a headphone port.

Interesting to see that coding is recognised on the landing page, something that a lot of people here thought that Apple tried to distance from.

I see $1,299 translates to £1,299 as usual in the Apple world.<p>I&#x27;m glad hipsters have a new toy to sit in coffee shops with while browsing the web. I truly don&#x27;t understand why people put up with them.

4 cores? Pro? 2020? lol<p>EDIT:<p>maybe 4 cores are enough for development using non-compiled languages, and if you don&#x27;t use Chrome and Electron apps, and not running several VMs and docker containers.<p>Some programming languages like Julia and Erlang&#x2F;Elixir will happily use all the cores available on your laptop to speed up calculations, run builds, tests and other development tasks.

I just looked to check. Still no physical Fn keys, still shallow butterfly keyboard. That&#x27;s a pass.<p>Hopefully Apple comes to its senses some day and creates a computer that is designed for actual work, where a single beard follicle is not going to make it unusable midday.