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Elon Musk reopening Tesla factory despite Alameda County order

571 点作者 heshiebee大约 5 年前

70 条评论

dannyw大约 5 年前
The reasons for not restarting production seem to be dogmatic and not evidence driven. Tesla is running the factory at a 30-40% capacity, and the Fremont factory has 5.3 million square feet of manufacturing and office space. Tesla claims their plan will ensure 6 ft of distance for every employee, and PPE and masks are provided and mandatory. Even the HVAC is changed to optimise for fresh air turnover and filters are changed on a regular basis.<p>Tesla&#x27;s full list is available here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.tesla.com&#x2F;sites&#x2F;default&#x2F;files&#x2F;blog_attachments&#x2F;Tesla-Return-to-Work-Playbook.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.tesla.com&#x2F;sites&#x2F;default&#x2F;files&#x2F;blog_attachments&#x2F;T...</a><p>A Tesla factory is a much safer place to be than a Home Depot or a Costco, and many other businesses open in California today. We aren&#x27;t talking about sporting events here: we&#x27;re talking about some of the lowest risk and unavoidable interactions.<p>Carmakers are also defined as a COVID19 critical industry, and every other carmaker manufacturing in the United States is either open, or capable of open today. This puts Tesla at a serious disadvantage.<p>This is locking down for the sake of locking down, not an evidence-first safety driven approach. That is something I cannot support.
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GhostVII大约 5 年前
I actually agree with some of what Elon is saying around COVID - it is probably reasonable for the Tesla factory to open up partially this week, and shelter in place has gone on for too long without any proper justification in many areas. But his reasoning and actions surrounding this are completely insane. He spreads conspiracy theories about hospitals overcounting cases for profit, says that COVID is just like the flu, predicted no cases by the end of April, and then does this and opens up without approval, violating the law.<p>His fans seem to think he is some kind of genius, but based on what he has said about COVID he doesn&#x27;t really seem that smart, or at least not well informed at all. Just by looking at the deaths year over year, it is clear that if anything, COVID cases are undercounted. And his claims that the shutdown of his factory are illegal are blatantly false. I don&#x27;t know if he just doesn&#x27;t know what he is talking about, or if he does and is just saying all this stuff for his personal gain. I suspect the former, but idk. This seems like a somewhat common pattern, where very successful and seemingly intelligent people have a few very obviously incorrect beliefs (ex. Steve Jobs and his fruit diet). Maybe they assume that success in one area implies knowledge in unrelated areas (I know I am guilty of this myself sometimes).
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6gvONxR4sf7o大约 5 年前
So Musk tweeted &quot;If anyone is arrested, I ask that it only be me,&quot; but that really doesn&#x27;t seem reasonable (and is super arrogant). If I pressure some friends into committing a crime, they are still culpable. Assuming wikipedia&#x27;s accurate [0], duress is only a valid excuse if someone&#x27;s threatening you with serious bodily harm or death.<p>&#x27;I would like you all to commit crimes, and I ask the government to not hold you responsible,&#x27; is so arrogant. He doesn&#x27;t get to dictate how the law works.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Duress_in_American_law#Requirements" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Duress_in_American_law#Require...</a>
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aazaa大约 5 年前
&gt; The chief executive announced the plans on Twitter Monday: “I will be on the line with everyone else,” he wrote. “If anyone is arrested, I ask that it only be me.”<p>Translation: my employees now must weigh the consequences of losing their jobs on the one hand vs. being arrested on the other.<p>What guarantees, if any, has Tesla has given its employees in the event of prosecution and or other consequences of violating state law?
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dr_大约 5 年前
Perhaps Tesla can reopen safely - if Amazon can run warehouses why shouldn’t they be able to manufacture cars?<p>The issue I personally have is that his personal comments, from twitter and from interview (Rogan) suggests that he is questioning how serious Covid is in general and that people have the right to do live how they choose with little regard for how that may affect those around them. He claims that patients with covid like symptoms, but without an official diagnosis, are being counted as covid patients, implying that they shouldn’t be (not true - most are designated under investigation until results are available or, in the early days, there simply weren’t enough tests available). Or that if one has covid, but also has another medical condition that was the cause of death, it should not be attributed to covid (again wrong, in many cases chronic conditions are controlled, until the virus wrecks havoc on the body).<p>Why would he be doing this? Because by questioning the seriousness of it, a push can be made to open the economy at large, which in many places and environments is still not safe. After all, what is the point of manufacturing Tesla’s if there aren’t enough people there to buy them?
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johnnyo大约 5 年前
How should an employee react in this situation?<p>Your boss tells you to come to work, and the govt is saying your workplace should be closed.<p>Can you fire someone for refusing to report when the county is supposed to be closed?<p>What an awful spot to put your employees in. If you come in, you might get arrested, if you don’t, you might get fired.
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dang大约 5 年前
The threads on this so far:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23145592" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23145592</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23130674" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23130674</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23129942" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23129942</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23129216" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23129216</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23127552" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23127552</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23126517" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23126517</a>
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crazygringo大约 5 年前
It&#x27;s frustrating there are no real details on this. From one article:<p>&gt; <i>Alameda County officials said they were &quot;communicating directly and working closely with the Tesla team on the ground in Fremont&quot; in a &quot;collaborative, good faith effort to develop and implement a safety plan&quot; to reopen while protecting workers&#x27; health. Meanwhile, Tesla sued the county, claiming it had no legal right to shut down the plant... Alameda County says it is expecting Tesla to submit its safety plan for approval, and that until that approval the company cannot resume normal production.</i> [1]<p>On the one hand, at face value (and based on his previous words&#x2F;actions), it appears like Elon&#x27;s being uncooperative for the sake of it -- that he could have reopened anyways if he&#x27;d just chosen to work together with the county, instead of demanding his own way based on the principle of the thing. His stubborness is just a terrible way to do business.<p>On the other hand, we also don&#x27;t know if the county was demanding unreasonable things, delaying re-opening as payback for Elon&#x27;s previous tempertantrums (or other reasons), or why it&#x27;s not just &quot;going along&quot; with the more general state-wide opening. Unfortunately, there doesn&#x27;t seem to be any reporting whatsoever at that level of nuance.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.npr.org&#x2F;sections&#x2F;coronavirus-live-updates&#x2F;2020&#x2F;05&#x2F;11&#x2F;854217730&#x2F;elon-musk-reopens-california-tesla-plant-defying-local-health-officials-again" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.npr.org&#x2F;sections&#x2F;coronavirus-live-updates&#x2F;2020&#x2F;0...</a>
xoxoy大约 5 年前
The county just released some statement that basically sounded like they wouldn’t take enforcement action <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;acsosheriffs&#x2F;status&#x2F;1259974251286683648?s=21" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;acsosheriffs&#x2F;status&#x2F;1259974251286683648?...</a>
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jcims大约 5 年前
Just curious if there are folks in countries outside of the US or maybe even little Internet backwaters within the US that observe a public discourse that is even slightly more nuanced than the shrieking ideological standoff we seem to have here in the states? For example, people publicly admitting that policy makers have difficult decisions in front of them, that both the health impact AND economic impact are crucial to consider, and maybe even collaborative, if lay, efforts to create a framework for resuming normalcy?
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camjohnson26大约 5 年前
What is he gaining through acting like this? The county was on track to allow them to reopen on May 18, is an extra week of production really so important?
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allears大约 5 年前
Courts generally don&#x27;t take kindly to this sort of thing. And Tesla probably needs a business license to operate. Musk expects Alameda County and the State of CA to support his profits over common sense, caution, and the rule of law; but Tesla isn&#x27;t even a drop in the bucket compared to the size of the California economy. He may be noisy, but he&#x27;s not as important as he seems to think.
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greendave大约 5 年前
&gt; &quot;We are addressing this matter using the same phased approach we use for other businesses which have violated the order in the past, and we hope that Tesla will likewise comply without further enforcement measures.&quot;<p>Looks like yet again, Elon Musk will get special treatment. Small restaurants in Sutter and Yuba county were threatened with revocation of their liquor licenses for opening contrary to health regulations[1]. Yet Musk violates those regulations and the local officials express &#x27;hope&#x27; that he will follow the rules?<p>Laws once again are for little people.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;la.eater.com&#x2F;2020&#x2F;5&#x2F;7&#x2F;21250785&#x2F;california-restaurants-alcohol-license-revoke-coronavirus-dining-room-closures" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;la.eater.com&#x2F;2020&#x2F;5&#x2F;7&#x2F;21250785&#x2F;california-restaurant...</a>
HarryHirsch大约 5 年前
Suppose there is an outbreak at the Tesla plant as there has been at that Smithfield plant in Sioux Falls or the Tyson plant in Wilkesboro? What happens next?
grecy大约 5 年前
Elon&#x27;s tweet[1]:<p>&quot;Tesla is restarting production today against Alameda County rules. I will be on the line with everyone else. If anyone is arrested, I ask that it only be me.&quot;<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;elonmusk&#x2F;status&#x2F;1259945593805221891" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;elonmusk&#x2F;status&#x2F;1259945593805221891</a>
rosywoozlechan大约 5 年前
Good for him. Health officials always picking the course with the ultimate amount of caution possible at any cost seems to be winning quite a bit and it&#x27;s nice to see some push back. When Governor Cuomo says you can&#x27;t put a price on a life he is 100% incorrect, that&#x27;s not how the world works. The economic cost of the shelter in place is expected to be worth it for about 12 weeks only according to NPR Marketplace and Bloomberg. Hopefully, it will soon be time that we get back to work. At least those of us who want to, or even better those of us who need to so we can feed our families.
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badRNG大约 5 年前
I don&#x27;t think much is gained from chronicling every episode in the saga of Musk&#x27;s opposition to the quarantine. There always seem to be bitter flame wars in the comments section, and I don&#x27;t think there&#x27;s anything &quot;deeply interesting&quot; about Musk&#x27;s week long rebellion.
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uHm3da大约 5 年前
Given the Musk hate spiking up over how he seems to be going a bit off the rails this is a pretty easy sell to get on the hate train for him doing this.<p>At the same time, I know people in California who are building up debt they&#x27;ll have to repay while not being allowed to work. That companies aren&#x27;t paying them and for various reasons unemployment aren&#x27;t an option. It&#x27;s not much better in my state.<p>The biggest factor in if I would agree with Musk on this is if Tesla has been singled out. I&#x27;m a bit out of the loop on my ability to cross reference things here, but are there any other Automakers in Alameda county? Are they shut down as well? If no to either of those then I can see why it does seem like government overreach.<p>I say this as someone with preexisting conditions who is still working during the outbreak and has been deemed essential by Local, State, and Federal. I also say it as someone who works at a job site that had similar &quot;Bring your own PPE&quot; rules, and only put them in place last week despite us working non stop.<p>We&#x27;ve had around a dozen people in my office with scares who were tested, nobody has come back positive yet, at least by what is claimed. From my perspective, if that&#x27;s true, it is possible to work safely. From reading other comments on the plans Tesla has it sounds like Musk will do more than my work about this...
coliveira大约 5 年前
Tesla is putting their own employees in danger of being arrested. This is completely immoral behavior.
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exabrial大约 5 年前
As an advocate for science, I&#x27;m fine with this. They&#x27;re going above and beyond to protect workers vs Home Depot or other &quot;necessary&quot; businesses. There needs to be scientific, evidenced-based approach, not some &quot;Obey&quot; approach
tusharpandey13大约 5 年前
HN usually acts like an old, intellectual, know-it-all-seen-it-all programmer grandpa that somehow knows all that the fields of computer science and philosophy have to offer. But this thread show what it actually is. A glorified reddit.
fellowniusmonk大约 5 年前
Ok. Can I get someone to look over this research?<p>It looks like Tesla is actually complying with the law and the _County_ public health org is contradicting a strategic federal &amp; state order. Specifically they are contradicting the Executive Order Gavin Newsom made which is what empowers and dictates which industries should close and which are strategically required to remain open.<p>If you look at this executive order which is both empowering the CA shutdown and dictates which industries are required infrastructure and MUST stay open, the rules and regulations to be followed are at the State level, and no additional empowerment to create superseding rules at the city or county level were created: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;covid19.ca.gov&#x2F;img&#x2F;Executive-Order-N-33-20.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;covid19.ca.gov&#x2F;img&#x2F;Executive-Order-N-33-20.pdf</a><p>Relevant part of Executive Order (Bold): &quot;On March 19, 2020, Governor Newsom issued Executive Order N-33-20 directing all residents immediately to heed current <i>State</i> public health directives to stay home, except as needed to maintain continuity of operations of essential critical infrastructure sectors and additional sectors as the <i>State</i> Public Health Officer may designate as critical to protect health and well-being of all Californians.&quot;<p>Furthermore, the State requirements for critical infrastructure that must remain open included &quot;Workers at transportation manufacturing facilities&quot;: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;covid19.ca.gov&#x2F;img&#x2F;EssentialCriticalInfrastructureWorkers.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;covid19.ca.gov&#x2F;img&#x2F;EssentialCriticalInfrastructureWo...</a><p>I don&#x27;t see how Elon Musk is breaking the Executive Order, in fact based on these documents it looks like county officials are overstepping and illegally shutting down something that has been explicitly earmarked as strategically protected, can someone provide additional links or order I may not have been able to find?
neuronexmachina大约 5 年前
Would Tesla (or its insurers) be subject to civil liability if their employees are injured&#x2F;killed as a result of COVID-19 contracted due to the order defiance?
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ashtonkem大约 5 年前
I would assume that this increases legal liability in a pretty severe way. It’s still unclear what kind of liability employers might face if employees get sick on the job, but surely opening open in direct defiance to a county order makes the situation much, much worse.
quotemstr大约 5 年前
Good. California&#x27;s lockdown is indefensible in light of new antibody evidence and ongoing economic carnage.<p>Prediction: nobody gets arrested and production continues. Continued panic about the virus is driven largely by clickbait media and social media. These forces seem terrifying due to their volume and ability to cancel random individuals, but they wither in the fact of real threats to livelihoods. Sometimes, all that&#x27;s needed to defeat a bully is standing up to him and saying &quot;no&quot;.<p>If California arrests Musk, it&#x27;ll be the starkest example yet of the state punishing ambition and success while rewarding fear and mediocrity.
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seanonymous大约 5 年前
This is a brilliant move on Musk&#x27;s part to ingratiate himself with the Dodge Ram crowd and sell more Cybertrucks in the red states. Well played, sir. Well played.
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vadym909大约 5 年前
I would have no problem with Elon deciding to launch himself with a rocket, but I&#x27;m worried about workers who don&#x27;t have an option and are doing it because they have to. The only thing I can think of to offset this risk is that Elon commits to pay $1M or a lifelong salary to the dependents of any worker that does catch the Covid-19 due to working during these times and dies (or infects their at-home relative who die) and lifelong health insurance should tey fall sick and be unable to work.
dangjc大约 5 年前
Governor Newsom is in the process of lifting shelter in place. Manufacturing is one thing that should be opening up. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.latimes.com&#x2F;california&#x2F;story&#x2F;2020-05-04&#x2F;california-reopening-coronavirus-gavin-newsom-phases-begin-retail-pickup" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.latimes.com&#x2F;california&#x2F;story&#x2F;2020-05-04&#x2F;californ...</a>
merpnderp大约 5 年前
People seem to be ignoring that the forced shutdown was based on models that have proven completely and utterly wrong. The actual data turned out to be several times better than the best possible scenario of a Wuhan style lockdown. Saying the shutdown worked is meaningless, because what are you even comparing it to?<p>Musk is absolutely right that the models we shut down over were based on were astrology.
kova12大约 5 年前
we live in time when rational thinking has absolutely no weight in face of emotional reaction. Businesses are not here to upheld rationality, but rather to make money, and as such it&#x27;s easier to adopt public idiocy than to fight it. I am very glad that there is Musk out there, and as a token of appreciation I will be considering to support him by buying Tesla.
sjg007大约 5 年前
The only people getting rich here will be the lawyers...
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babesh大约 5 年前
The Bay Area health officials have formed a cabal to move the entire region in concert. This has first meant the joint statement extending the lockdown to June 1st. My speculation is that this also means that the whole area moves at the same rate as the slowest county.<p>One Alameda County supervisor implies that perhaps he could have gotten them open by May 18th. I doubt that because the power to do so is not directly invested in the board but rather the county health officer. The health officer is acting in concert with the other counties health officers.<p>The leader of this group is the Santa Clara health officer, Sara Cody, who has been credited with architecting the lockdown. The officer has been very vague about opening the counties up to phase 2, saying that it will be frustratingly slow (a).<p>The officer points to insufficient testing and insufficient numbers of workers to contact trace (b). The officer said that they are weeks away from having enough workers to contact trace and that tests are only 20-25% towards the goal.<p>My issue with the tests are that they are voluntary. There is probably no way to meet that goal unless you force people to test. You can tell by the number of tests in each county. It isn&#x27;t really going up very fast (c). At present rate, you are talking about several months. The issue doesn&#x27;t seem to be insufficient tests. It seems to be mostly that people aren&#x27;t going in to get tested since the positivity rate is actually going down.<p>I also think that the health officers want to work in concert since one county moving faster than the others will create pressure on the other counties to move at that rate. There is already such pressure since the rest of the state is already moving faster.<p>A good percentage of the Bay Area is insulated from the effects of the lockdown since many can work from home. The big tech companies have been relatively unaffected by covid-19. Government employees are still being paid. However a good percentage are not insulated by the effects of the lockdown (although it has partly opened up).<p>So based on the above, I expect the shit to hit the fan.<p>(a) <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sfgate.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;editorspicks&#x2F;article&#x2F;Sara-Cody-Bay-Area-shelter-place-reopen-order-safe-15262194.php" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sfgate.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;editorspicks&#x2F;article&#x2F;Sara-Cody-B...</a><p>(b) <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sfgate.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;editorspicks&#x2F;article&#x2F;Bay-Area-reopen-shelter-place-why-COVID-19-SF-news-15254094.php" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sfgate.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;editorspicks&#x2F;article&#x2F;Bay-Area-re...</a><p>(c) <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sccgov.org&#x2F;sites&#x2F;covid19&#x2F;Pages&#x2F;dashboard.aspx#cases" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sccgov.org&#x2F;sites&#x2F;covid19&#x2F;Pages&#x2F;dashboard.aspx#ca...</a>
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Houshalter大约 5 年前
The average age of death of coronavirus victims was about 10 months younger than the average age of death of non-coronavirus victims. So if you die it takes 1 year off your life expectancy. And maybe 1% of people will die that are infected (and lets assume everyone will be infected.)<p>So coronavirus decreases your life expectancy by 3 and a half days. For comparison, sitting in front of a TV for multiple hours a day (as many people have been relegated to doing) decreases your life expectancy by 6 years. Smoking is 8 years. Owning a car and driving it regularly is a few weeks IIRC.
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chx大约 5 年前
Elon Musk has questioned the rule of law and he is getting away with it. USA, 2020: laws do not apply to rich white guys and do not protect poor blacks.<p>Not that this is anything new. Here&#x27;s what Google says about the rule of law for Americans and Canadians. I didn&#x27;t even need to click the results, just screenshot the result snippets. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;TO2XUco.jpg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;TO2XUco.jpg</a> Somehow it magically becomes not difficult to define the moment you cross the 49th parallel.
slowrabbit大约 5 年前
Don&#x27;t arrest them, just fine them an obscene amount to make it unsustainable for them to stay open with the extra added cost.
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namesbc大约 5 年前
Elon Musk is incredibly stupid, and for the good of Tesla the board should kick him out.<p>Tesla and Alameda County agreed to a plan to re-open on May 18th.<p>Elon Musk should have stuck with that plan. Now he has increased the odds of his employees catching a deadly virus, getting the factory shutdown for longer, all while putting the company at increased legal risk.
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KKKKkkkk1大约 5 年前
I like the measured and thoughtful response of the Alameda County Sheriff&#x27;s office. Letting the situation de-escalate instead of making it worse. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;ACSOSheriffs&#x2F;status&#x2F;1259974251286683648" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;ACSOSheriffs&#x2F;status&#x2F;1259974251286683648</a><p>Makes you think how come such measured response is made to Elon flagrantly breaking the law, but wasn&#x27;t shown to Oscar Grant:<p><i>According to court testimony and video of the incident, [officer] Pirone pulled Grant and his friends off the train so aggressively that other riders loudly objected. Pirone got physical at least two more times with Grant, kneeing him and pulling him violently to the concrete platform. At one point, apparently angry at being called a profane name, Pirone leaned in close to Grant and shouted back at him, “Bitch-ass n—, right? Bitch-ass n—, right?”</i> <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sfchronicle.com&#x2F;bayarea&#x2F;article&#x2F;10-years-since-Oscar-Grant-s-death-What-13489585.php" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sfchronicle.com&#x2F;bayarea&#x2F;article&#x2F;10-years-since-O...</a>
londons_explore大约 5 年前
Musk getting arrested would get him far more headlines than the few hours in prison will cost him...
Ice_cream_suit大约 5 年前
I had assumed that sufficient money and connections provide immunity from the law only in facade democracies and banana republics.<p>It appears that that sufficient money and connections provide immunity from the law in America too.
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beshrkayali大约 5 年前
It&#x27;s pretty much obvious now that the lock down that the world (except Sweden) has been under is about 45 to 75 percent based on faulty predictions, fear, and other types of BS.<p>The problem is that no one is willing to hear anything other than the narrative they&#x27;ve been spooned up over the last couple of weeks, and any attempt at resisting irrationality is met with hostility and accusations of extreme-conspiratorial thinking.<p>Yes, it&#x27;s stupid to keep the lock down. Yes, it&#x27;s stupid to wear masks if you&#x27;re not feeling sick or you hang around people at risk. Yes, it&#x27;s stupid to stop people from taking a walk in the park or going to the beach, or even having a party if that&#x27;s what the heck they want to do.
panpanna大约 5 年前
So, if people get infected and die... will that open Tesla to lawsuits?
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kbos87大约 5 年前
I guess my curiosity is why Elon Musk feels like he is entitled to defy the law when any of the other businesses mentioned here wouldn’t dare. Jailtime for him, or why should anyone obey?
mrfusion大约 5 年前
Another angle to this too. Global warming is also a pressing problem. Every day tesla is closed we’re not taking ICE vehicles off the road.
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hkai大约 5 年前
That&#x27;s what bravery looks like. Oh, and money.
perseusprime11大约 5 年前
Bookmark this comment. A week or two from now, we will hear covid+ cases at this factory. This is not going to be a great decision.
slowrabbit大约 5 年前
Don&#x27;t arrest them, just fine them an obscene amount to make it unsustainable for them to stay open with the extra cost.
clamprecht大约 5 年前
<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;kMhZy" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;kMhZy</a>
MiroF大约 5 年前
Don&#x27;t arrest Elon, just fine Tesla until doing this is unsustainable.
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Traster大约 5 年前
I don&#x27;t see why this would be a problem. Just arrest anyone you find violating the orders. If I walked down to the local beach I would be arrested. I don&#x27;t see why you would treat luxury goods retailers differently.
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salimmadjd大约 5 年前
I have to side with Musk here.<p>I want to see what everything Tesla is doing to protect their employees and if they are following a subset of the below guidelines that I&#x27;ve listed. Temperature check at entrance, mask requirement, strict hand sanitization, etc. Then let Musk commercialize the process of opening up businesses.<p>Some background:<p>I followed Corona (COVID19 now) from late January very closely and read most published papers. I strongly supported the &quot;flattening of the curve&quot; and encouraged the lockdown and we practiced&#x2F;and practice strict social distancing. That being said, hearing countering arguments from various scientist (2013 Noble prize winner [0]). The Swedish epidemiologist [1]. That the lockdown makes no sense unless we are going to have a vaccine when we come out of the lockdown.<p>Remember, the initial lockdown was mostly argued for flattening the curve (in addition to maybe it worked in China lets follow them). If you look at the curves (flattened vs. spiked) they have near the same areas, meaning those original scientist who argued for it, never argued the lockdown was going to reduce the net infection by COVID but to slow it down to help the health care system gear up and also not get overwhelmed (lack of rooms, ventilators, etc.)<p>That being said, we can copy some smart and common sense stuff from places like Taiwan (I&#x27;ve spoken to people who live in Taiwan and life is almost back to normal but they just wear masks in public) that has allowed them open up and I&#x27;m hoping Tesla is learning from these practices.<p>What we have not heard from our governor (feels like many of his stuff is partially motivated by planning for a 2024 presidential run) or county officials a clear pathway to opening up.<p>Here&#x27;s what I want to hear from them:<p>1 - we are distributing masks to every house. 2 - we are requiring mask in all public places or when you&#x27;re passing by anyone within 1 car length (6 feet is hard to visualize) 3 - we are distributing hand sanitizers to every public facing business. 4 - we are requiring all credit card terminals to be touch-less or any customer using it, must apply hand sanitizer before and after using it. 5 - we&#x27;ll start deploying IR thermometers to malls and large public facing businesses (Costco, Safeway ) and will test for temperature. 6 - Take extra measures to protect the seniors and elderly. Continue to have senior-only operation hours (at Costco, etc.) everyone working in adult care facility needs to be tested and monitored. 7- Daily PSA by local TV&#x2F;radio in English, Spanish, Chinese...how to best sanitize your hands, how to best use mask and how to effectively maintaining social distancing even with mask. 8 - Ticket&#x2F;fine those who are not wearing mask. Maybe the first offense is a warning if they don&#x27;t have a mask and the police office will hand them a mask.<p>I&#x27;ve seen some of these, but not a in concrete single articulated plan of execution with timeline. Right now most policies are made with bad data. Not statical sampling of confirmed COVID (though it&#x27;s changing [2]) but rather raw numbers. It&#x27;s obvious the more you test the more confirmed cases you&#x27;ll get. Everyday, you hear about how numbers are increasing (that might be true, but it&#x27;s not really scientific) Where as statistical sampling would tell us what percentage of the population is infected and if the infection spreading or staying flat.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=bl-sZdfLcEk" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=bl-sZdfLcEk</a> [1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=bfN2JWifLCY" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=bfN2JWifLCY</a> [2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=NTXgbN6uB1I" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=NTXgbN6uB1I</a>
54351623大约 5 年前
If I was a Tesla employee I&#x27;d strike for quadruple pay and benefits. If Musk is willing to go to prison to get his factory up and running surly he&#x27;d be willing to give his employees pretty hefty raises.
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kome大约 5 年前
rubber barons doing what they want despite and against the law... USA is acting like a failed state, or a banana republic.
MarkMc大约 5 年前
The comparisons with Rosa Parks are a bit rich. By refusing to stand on the bus, Parks did not make millions of dollars or put other people&#x27;s lives at risk.
nutjob2大约 5 年前
I wonder what his story will be when families sue the company after employees die of the virus. I guess it will be &quot;they didn&#x27;t catch it here.&quot;
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alephnan大约 5 年前
Has anyone considered Elon Musk plans to run for president in the future and this is one way to challenge the establishment?
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tonetheman大约 5 年前
What a fucking joke. Must get back to work to make our quarter for the share holders. Elon Musk is a horrible human.
gulli1010大约 5 年前
do the employees get a choice if they dont feel safe working in the environment?
wnevets大约 5 年前
Just a reminder Musk said this virus was no worse than the common cold. Musk also said the new cases would drop to 0 in April.<p>How many times does someone have to be wrong before we can stop accepting their input on a subject?
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ProAm大约 5 年前
I thought he was moving?
obelos大约 5 年前
We don’t have a public health crisis. We have a billionaire crisis.
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DoofusOfDeath大约 5 年前
If Musk is actually on the wrong side of the law, I&#x27;d love to see him spend time in jail for this move.
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OrgNet大约 5 年前
put him in jail and forget about it?
fasteddie31003大约 5 年前
This man is a genius. Businesses put food in my stomach not government. Thank god.
bubmiw大约 5 年前
2 new cults have formed, covid doomers and the covid hoaxers . Very strange how same hyper partisan tendencies of far right and left are present in this new cult dynamic .
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throwaway122378大约 5 年前
Good for him. We should be allowed to reopen as easily as we were forced into our homes for 3 months.
rogerkirkness大约 5 年前
I have been gritting my teeth through another reading of Atlas Shrugged, but this tweet is like a case study.<p>Prediction: Elon gets arrested, Tesla keeps producing, Tesla comes out of this stronger than other automakers, mid-term move to Nevada or Texas, congressperson retires with pension.
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tanilama大约 5 年前
I am generally in approval of CA government&#x27;s handling in this pandemic, however, I don&#x27;t think there is value in waiting any longer for reopening to start.<p>Why? To me it is obvious that the pandemic won&#x27;t stopping from spreading at the end of May. And the nation level self-quarantine&#x2F;shelter-in-place order now, is now failed and discarded by the many state government and federal government alike.<p>Keep closing at this point feels pointless and endless, and it won&#x27;t resolve the situation at all.
londons_explore大约 5 年前
I wonder what the workers will be doing...<p>Will they be making cars, or will they be unbolting everything that moves and putting it on a truck so they can start making cars in a tent in another county?
maerF0x0大约 5 年前
IMO the burden of proof should lie on the health officials to demonstrate TSLA&#x27;s precautions and measures are insufficient. Then fine them if true.<p>This order is like saying anyone who is drives (at any speed) is automatically exceeding the speed limit. In our laws we have an officer make an observance and provide some data to back it up (radar reading). TSLA should have the right to operate in a safe manner. There&#x27;s nothing special about walking outside or getting groceries that make&#x27;s it more&#x2F;less safe than building a car, when sufficient protections are in place.<p>Why should one group receive the right to continue operations while the other does not?
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natch大约 5 年前
I wonder how many people freaking out about Elon’s actions and still driving ICE cars don’t ponder that this whole pandemic episode, even if it goes on for years and kills millions of people, is just a tiny blip compared to what’s coming from global climate change. I mean further pandemics are just one of the problems climate change is going to bring. This is just a teaser.<p>Keeping this in mind helps set a perspective for why he sees this as a mission. If you still think he is being irresponsible, consider the data he shared, and the larger picture. Maybe... just maybe... he has more information than you do.
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