TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

Ironies of Automation (1983) [pdf]

66 点作者 pul将近 5 年前

4 条评论

wigiv将近 5 年前
Speaking as someone who has been responsible for &quot;turning the lights back on&quot; to fix problems with &quot;fully-automated&quot;, &quot;lights-out&quot; factory lines, much of this paper still rings true forty years on - if nothing else as a check against our engineering hubris. It remains tremendously difficult to quash entirely the long tail of things that can go wrong in a factory.<p>That said, many contentions raised here really have been resolved substantially with increased computing efficiency and ubiquitous connectivity. The touted expert human operator&#x27;s ability to see and understand processes from a high-level, informed by years of observing (and hearing, and &quot;feeling&quot;) machine behavior has truly been eclipsed by an advanced machine&#x27;s capacity to collect increasingly granular snapshots of its complete operating state - the temperatures, vibrations, positions, and other sensations of its various organs and elements - every few milliseconds, hold on to that data indefinitely, and correlate and interpret that data in ever-expanding radii of causation.<p>The best human operators (of any technology) not only respond to problems, they anticipate and prevent or plan around them. Massive data, advanced physics-based simulations, and &quot;digital twinning&quot; capabilities of manufacturing equipment afford pre-emptive testing of virtually infinite scenarios.<p>Not only can you simulate throwing a wrench in the works - you can simulate the effect of the wrench entering the works at every possible angle!<p>It&#x27;s not infallible, and will for a long time still require a human-in-the-loop at some level, but as the author rightly put it themselves near the end of the paper:<p>&quot;It would be rash to claim it as an irony that the aim of aiding human limited capacity has pushed computing to the limit of its capacity, as technology has a way of catching up with such remarks.&quot;
评论 #23303607 未加载
mjb将近 5 年前
This is one of my favorite papers. The core point that I think should get a lot more attention is this one:<p>&gt; When manual take-over is needed there is likely to be something wrong with the process, so that unusual actions will be needed to control it, and one can argue that the operator needs to be more rather than less skilled, and less rather than more loaded, than average.<p>The &quot;remaining&quot; operational work once automation has done it&#x27;s job is more complex and weirder and requires more knowledge and skill than the basic task. On top of that, computes can (and do!) get systems into states that humans wouldn&#x27;t, so those skills may exceed the skills needed by manual operators. This is something that people who work on things like driver aids talk about a lot, but I don&#x27;t see as much attention to in the systems observability field.<p>&gt; One can therefore only expect the operator to monitor the computer&#x27;s decisions at some meta-level, to decide whether the computer&#x27;s decisions are &#x27;acceptable&#x27;, If the computer is being used to make the decisions because human judgement and intuitive reasoning are not adequate in this context, then which of the decisions is to be accepted ? The human monitor has been given an impossible task.<p>This is particularly visible with things like data integrity in a complex database schema. Above a trivial scale, things both change too fast for a human to monitor, and change in ways that don&#x27;t make sense to humans. When a human sees an anomaly, who&#x27;s to know if it&#x27;s expected?<p>Still a great, thought-provoking, read after 37 years.
评论 #23303741 未加载
dang将近 5 年前
See also<p>2019 <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=19132724" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=19132724</a><p>2018 <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=18230258" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=18230258</a><p>2016 (1 comment) <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=12749342" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=12749342</a><p>2014 <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=7726496" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=7726496</a>
评论 #23305909 未加载
VHRanger将近 5 年前
The heuristic to think about automation is using a hand screwdriver (manual) vs a drill screwdriver (automated).<p>The latter dramatically enhances productivity, but also introduces some overhead and complexity.<p>This is also as good a time as any to link to the [automation FAQ](<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;Economics&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;faq_automation" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;Economics&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;faq_automation</a>)