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Fuchsia overview

287 点作者 farmerbb大约 5 年前

19 条评论

catern大约 5 年前
&gt;Fuchsia aims to provide drivers with a binary-stable interface. In the future, drivers compiled for one version of Fuchsia will continue to work in future versions of Fuchsia without needing to be modified or even recompiled. This approach means that Fuchsia devices will be able to update to newer versions of Fuchsia seamlessly while keeping their existing drivers.<p>This is a massive step back for open source. The fact that Linux doesn&#x27;t have a binary-compatible driver interface is a good thing: It means hardware vendors have a very strong incentive to get their drivers upstream into the kernel. And indeed, on servers and laptops and desktop machines, this has largely happened. But on mobile platforms, with Android, it has not happened. For various reasons, but nothing fundamental.<p>We would all benefit if Android hardware drivers were upstreamed. This would allow for a much more competitive, and higher quality, software and hardware ecosystem on mobile platforms.<p>But Fuschia is going in the exact opposite direction: It makes it possible to build proprietary drivers. It&#x27;s for this reason that I hope Fuschia is not successful. We already have a high quality kernel: Linux. If Fuschia is &quot;not a science experiment&quot;, but instead intended to use proven ideas, then any improvement that could be added to Fuschia could be added to Linux. We don&#x27;t need a new operating system whose only advantage is that it&#x27;s easier to write proprietary drivers.
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loeg大约 5 年前
&gt; Fuchsia&#x27;s goal is to power production devices and products used for business-critical applications. As such, Fuchsia is not a playground for experimental operating system concepts. Instead, the platform roadmap is driven by practical use cases arising from partner and product needs.<p>This is an interesting statement given how many relatively unpopular OS concepts it integrates. I am interested in seeing this succeed. I hope that Fuschia helps drive capability-based sandboxing of end-user software.
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jpm_sd大约 5 年前
Sounds a bit like a modern, open approach to the problems that were solved by QNX. Excited to see how it evolves!
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jccalhoun大约 5 年前
&gt;Fuchsia&#x27;s goal is to power production devices and products used for business-critical applications<p>People have guessed that Fuchsia is some successor to Android or unification of Chrome OS and Android. However, this statement makes me wonder if it is meant to run their backend hardware and not consumer products.
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gman83大约 5 年前
Sounds like Google&#x27;s version of Darwin.
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butterisgood大约 5 年前
I really like Fuchsia design wise... it’s got a great build system and folks on IRC have been nothing but friendly and excellent! Travis and team are doing a great job!
cletus大约 5 年前
I can&#x27;t help but think that if microkernel architectures were such a good idea, that would explain why every popular OS is a microkernel architecture (oh wait...). Snark aside, this is a serious debate since the inception of Linux [1].<p>It&#x27;s important to look at Fuchsia through the lens of what problems it solves in Android&#x2F;Linux because that tells you a lot.<p>As we know, receiving updates in Android is, well, a clusterfark. There are two key problems:<p>1. Phone manufacturers need to write or update drivers essentially with each Android release; and<p>2. Those drivers are by nature of Linux being a monolithic kernel, written in kernel space. Kernel space code by third-parties is going to be inherently more unstable to your device than if they were written in user space.<p>So when Google talks about Fuchsia having a stable binary ABI for drivers, they&#x27;re talking about solving both of these problems (at least as they see them).<p>So the question I&#x27;ve always had about the justifications for pouring billions of dollars into Fuchsia (I mean that quite literally) is: could this really not have been solved in Linux, even if it&#x27;s just the limited context of Android?<p>I&#x27;m not a driver or Linux expert by any stretch of the imagination. I&#x27;m sure there are people here who are so this is my question to you: could you have created a system for ideally user space drivers with a stable ABI in Linux and avoided all the costs of completely reinventing that wheel?<p>My other question about Fuchsia is: does Google foresee themselves adopting the same vertically integrated solution that, say, Apple does? It&#x27;s worth noting that Apple by not providing iOS to third parties is somewhat paradoxically immune to antitrust investigations (I mean really... how does that work?).<p>Evidence against Google adopting the Apple model is the fact that Fuchsia is open source, which is a curious decision. This seems to imply that Google either wants to maintain an Android-like ecosystem or they simply see it as their only viable option.<p>I don&#x27;t know how anyone can expect that Samsung is going to move to Fuchsia. Samsung already chafes under the yoke of their Google dependence with Android. They&#x27;ve tried to get out from under it (ie Tizen) but luckily for Google, Samsung is terrible at software (at anyone with Samsung crapware on their Galaxy can attest; Bixby anyone?).<p>Maybe Google thinks the insurance of Fuchsia being open source is necessary for third-party adoption to have any chance but still, the only way I see Samsung going along with this is that there&#x27;s absolutely no other alternative.<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Tanenbaum%E2%80%93Torvalds_debate" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Tanenbaum%E2%80%93Torvalds_deb...</a>
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jokoon将近 5 年前
It&#x27;s been 4 years and it&#x27;s still being developed? Apparently android v1&#x2F;v2 was released about 1 year later after the first iPhone.<p>It doesn&#x27;t seem so easy to make a new OS&#x2F;kernel.<p>The linux kernel is not perfect, but at least it works well, it&#x27;s mature, and developers know how to work on it.
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drtse4大约 5 年前
Haven&#x27;t checked Fuchsia in a while, very glad to see that they have extended the documentation.<p>Did they improve the initial steps to get up and running too?<p>(I remember it took hours to clone all the subprojects and most of the times something failed along the way, even worse than downloading the Android sources)
dzonga大约 5 年前
everything in userspace == high security. programs, software won&#x27;t clash like they do on *nix, windows due to isolation. same benefits of snaps | flatpaks. but now you&#x27;ve a microkernel which is 1. fast 2. easy to patch 3. stable ABI something Linux doesn&#x27;t have.
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axegon_大约 5 年前
I&#x27;ve been eyeing Fuchsia for some time now and wanting to give it a spin but I&#x27;ve been holding back just to make sure it doesn&#x27;t get abandoned(despite having a well maintained fork already). Real shame they pulled the plug on the raspberry pi support.
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tempodox将近 5 年前
I was trying to find out from that site who&#x27;s behind this and if that information is in there it must be really well hidden. Apart from other concerns, I&#x27;m not going to touch an OS from a group that doesn&#x27;t clearly state who they are.
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killjoywashere大约 5 年前
Has anyone tried installing this on a ThinkPad? Like an X201 or X230?
sam1r大约 5 年前
What is the cheapest fuschsia supported hardware device?
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stewbrew大约 5 年前
I still think its strange to create an OS that officially supports only 2-3 languages for development. Sounds rather 1980s to me.
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dang大约 5 年前
Please don&#x27;t editorialize titles. This is in the site guidelines: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;newsguidelines.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;newsguidelines.html</a>. Lots of explanation here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hn.algolia.com&#x2F;?dateRange=all&amp;page=0&amp;prefix=false&amp;query=by%3Adang%20%22level%20playing%20field%22&amp;sort=byDate&amp;type=comment" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hn.algolia.com&#x2F;?dateRange=all&amp;page=0&amp;prefix=false&amp;qu...</a><p>(Submitted title was &#x27;Fuchsia overview – “Fuchsia is not a science experiment”&#x27;)
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dilandau大约 5 年前
Given Google&#x27;s penchant for abruptly canceling platforms, I hope that implementors and vendors will be careful with this.
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matchbok大约 5 年前
Another Google project that will end up being abandoned. Flutter, Dart, messaging, etc.<p>They need to just fix Android.
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tarkin2大约 5 年前
I have mixed feelings. This brings invitation to the operating system world. But it will track user behaviour from its core.