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Please Pay for Your News

37 点作者 foob4r将近 5 年前

25 条评论

notafraudster将近 5 年前
I have a lot of thoughts, but in sum I think the article doesn&#x27;t say much or engage in much soul-searching or really think about the problem in a serious&#x2F;interesting way. Here are a few of my thoughts:<p>What about a patronage model? The demand for news is universal and the ability for people to pay the price of news they consume (not at all universal) lends itself better to a patronage model where a smaller number overpay rather than a larger number bearing true external costs. By this I mean is that the article proposes that people pay for 3 or 4 different news sources at a few hundred dollars a year. It&#x27;s true that many on HN meet this threshold, and probably should pay for their news. But based on how few people have an emergency reserve, how many people live hand to mouth, how many people don&#x27;t take vacations, I&#x27;m pretty sure many consumers of news simply don&#x27;t have this kind of disposable income. Urbanites, who are the most likely to demand many forms of news, are also the most severely burdened in terms of other fixed costs (rent, food, insurance, transportation). The author sidesteps the disposable income question by listing other products they perceive to be more successful (like, say, Netflix) without really engaging what that comparison means.<p>By contrast to the individual subscriber, a single billionaire could endow many news organizations in perpetuity without blinking -- and in fact a lot of journalism is subsidized in this manner. The article quotes The Atlantic (being floated by the Jobs estate); the Washington Post (being floated by Bezos); and the LA Times (being floated by a wealthy doctor in Los Angeles). Of course all of these have ad and subscription revenue as well, but it speaks to the idea that there&#x27;s an outsized role for institutional funding.<p>The same is of course true for government. It would be trivial for the government to endow local journalism all over the country, but there is a strong aversion to this because of the perception in America that state funding, state ownership, and state propaganda are all synonyms.<p>Local papers? If Jeff Bezos took 50% of his growth in net worth this year, he could permanently endow every single local newspaper in the entire country in perpetuity. Does it really matter what I do?<p>Hell, let&#x27;s look at smaller patrons. The author is a senior software engineer at Google: one very simple proposal that we know the author can afford is buying, say, 100 subscriptions of a worthy paper and donating them. Is it likely this article is going to drive 100 new subscriptions by readers? I doubt it. So if the author really means to achieve the goal they are advocating, this is a route their article doesn&#x27;t consider. One possible response is &quot;it shouldn&#x27;t be incumbent on me to be a public good provider&quot; or &quot;how dare you assume I have that kind of money&quot; -- both of which would be responses to the article&#x27;s thesis, with the added benefit that the responders wouldn&#x27;t be senior software engineers at Google. In fact, the author surely knows dozens of other SSEs at Google who also feel the same way politically about this issue. Why not solicit them?<p>Lest this seem facetious, when I look at what @pinboard has done with the Great Slate electoral campaign in 2018 and with his fundraising this time around, it&#x27;s clear to me that approach is more effective than simply the righteous blog post. Skin in the game. I would enthusiastically upvote a Google SSE handing out hundreds of subscriptions because supporting journalism is important and $10-20k is trivial for them.<p>But also the decline of journalism is actually nothing to do with individuals not valuing it and everything to do with structural factors individuals can&#x27;t impact.<p>To the extent we&#x27;re talking about local journalism, a large part of the issue was national consolidation of publishing companies. This is a government issue and it requires muscular antitrust action to undo. It&#x27;s also compounded by the national consolidation of advertising, and the national consolidation of other businesses. As long as big ad firms do most of the ad placement in newspapers owned by big newspaper firms, and most of those ads are for big companies, there will always be pressure towards viewing small local papers as unsustainable.<p>Second, a lot of the more recent wave of journalism cuts has been text journalism unsuccessfully chasing YouTube and Facebook money. It&#x27;s well documented [1, using the authors preferred source] that Facebook misled video watch figures and that this led to the loss of tens or hundreds of thousands of jobs. This is not an individual problem, it&#x27;s a regulatory and structural problem. I could have told these places that chasing Facebook clickbait was going to bite them in the ass economically because it&#x27;s a house of cards. They didn&#x27;t listen. Why are Google and Facebook not looked at as the cause of this problem?<p>Also, the ad-first model has also hampered consumer direct-payment expectations. I can subscribe to a lot of paper magazines for $5&#x2F;year. I don&#x27;t want paper magazines, I never read them. So why does it cost 25-50x that to subscribe to the same content online? Answer: because that&#x27;s the true price of what it ought to cost, but I&#x27;ve now been conditioned to free-ride. But I didn&#x27;t ask publication to pivot to be ad-first, a variety of structural incentives did that.<p>Some other hanging user side questions: Why is it not easy to pay for the odd article read rather than a full price subscription? I read news from all around the country. I have no objection to a newspaper in Des Moines getting some of my money, but I won&#x27;t be jumping through hoops to pay them $0.20. Why is search still so bad in online journalism? Why is there still an above-the-fold paper-first design paradigm? Why can&#x27;t I customize sections without using adblock to block the sections I don&#x27;t like? Why is so much of the page designed to get me to leave the page to share stuff on social media? Why are URLs so impermanent? Why is everything a low end liveblog format now? Why do major newspapers pay standing op-ed columnists to engage in empty punditry about things they know nothing instead of spending more soliciting the best possible external op-eds on a given subject? Who on earth thinks Bret Stephens has ever added value to any conversation ever? It might well be the case that making a product that&#x27;s more convenient and less infuriating will solicit more individual compliance, but it&#x27;s not individual feedback that drove these bad decisions to begin with.<p>I know this is a pretty far-reaching comment, but I think if we&#x27;re going to have the conversation, let&#x27;s have it.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theatlantic.com&#x2F;technology&#x2F;archive&#x2F;2018&#x2F;10&#x2F;facebook-driven-video-push-may-have-cost-483-journalists-their-jobs&#x2F;573403&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theatlantic.com&#x2F;technology&#x2F;archive&#x2F;2018&#x2F;10&#x2F;faceb...</a>
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mey将近 5 年前
I tried, except, everywhere I looked, they promoted Op-ed pieces with equal billing and authority as traditional investigative reporting. Washington Post, NY times seemed liked the &quot;best&quot; based on track record for investigative reporting on politics and international coverage (with a US focus) but I cancelled both after a year. Open to suggestions...<p>Edit: Also NYTimes cancelation process is AOL levels of hostile. The Economists, less so.
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dpc_pw将近 5 年前
The future of &quot;news&quot; is in podcasts &amp; yt. I follow plenty of people who are doing well for themselves with a Patreon account + some premium content + public channel providing knowledge &amp; news in their area of expertise, often very in-depth.<p>It&#x27;s not only medium that is different.<p>People don&#x27;t trust institutions anymore. They don&#x27;t want to buy &quot;New York Times&quot; or any other brand, and pay for the office, shareholders, CEOs. They want small independent teams &#x2F; individuals that they can connect with, trust and hold personally accountable. Someone that feels like they are working for their Patreons.<p>When you cut the bloat, it takes just a thousand patreons to support a creator on some salary-like level. Even less, with ad revenues etc.
firefoxd将近 5 年前
I wish paying for news would actually make news organizations prosper. But subscription only slightly help. Looking at past revenue of the LA times, subscribers accounted for under 20% of revenue [1]. The remaining 80% was from advertising.<p>If we all subscribe to 3 or 4 papers right now, the best thing they can do for their business is bombard us with ads to make up for the remaining percentage. Well, we have adblockers now so it doesn&#x27;t work.<p>I don&#x27;t know what the solution is. Journalism that holds people accountable is crucial for society. But customers paying for the news doesn&#x27;t work. It never did.<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;idiallo.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;we-never-paid-for-journalism" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;idiallo.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;we-never-paid-for-journalism</a>
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nicharesuk将近 5 年前
I personally would love to pay for my news (in a sense I try to do that by regularly donating to Wikipedia as I think it&#x27;s a fantastic open-source-esque news source)<p>My trouble is the dearth of non-biased media sources. (Hacker news may be considered biased as it&#x27;s often skewed for people in tech?) This might just be my inability to trust but I see multiple issues:<p>1. Presenting facts in any way can be seen as biased as you pick which facts and how to present them<p>2. Many news sources have different editors and journalist with a wide swathe of opinions that it&#x27;s hard to trust one news source completely based off of reading just a few articles.<p>3. Picking one news source makes it likely to have confirmation bias, which is something I want to avoid.<p>Usually I stick with Wikipedia and its references for each subject and try to synthesize all sides of an issue. Or I pick specific writers who I&#x27;ve seen with a good track record that really try to be objective even with they are giving opinion pieces (Gwern is often my goto for a lot of topics)<p>So really I don&#x27;t have a good answer for this, I would love other people&#x27;s thoughts and other sources of good news or systems for finding good news
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Myrmornis将近 5 年前
I don&#x27;t know whether my position is morally sound, but it&#x27;s at least pretty clear in my head:<p>- I want society to support professional journalism.<p>- There is an infinity of worthy things to read on the internet. I want to browse content from many sources.<p>- However, it is no longer the 1990s. People don&#x27;t choose a single newspaper to be delivered to their houses and open it over the breakfast table.<p>- Accordingly, I don&#x27;t want to have to choose a single newspaper to support, like people did in the &lt;=1990s.<p>- Personally, beyond checking the headlines, I mostly read the news nowadays with a feeling that I&#x27;m time-wasting: that I should be spending my time doing something more worthwhile.<p>- So it really seems that payment has to be per article. Presumably some sort of subscription-based micropayment service: pay $20 a month; can read content from (and thus support) many professional journalists. Something like Blendle. Although when I tried that a year or so ago it didn&#x27;t offer the type of browsing I was looking for.
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cxr将近 5 年前
The thing about paid news is that they&#x27;re offering a &quot;premium&quot; product, but that product has notable omissions. You know what I&#x27;d expect from news that you have to pay for? A bibliography. Something like (an idealized version of) Wikipedia, with a list of references included somewhere, each scoped to a particular claim—even if a reference just amounts to original research conducted by the news org. E.g. <i>Interview with Terrance Bodwell, 2020 May 17</i>.<p>It&#x27;s almost like the raw deal you get with most commercial software. Consider the case where you have some open source thing that tends to be both free (as in price) and you get the source code to it. Now, someone is offering a premium alternative. What do you get for you money? In most cases, you actually have to <i>give up</i> on being able to look at the source.
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Krasnol将近 5 年前
I&#x27;m paying for news. It&#x27;s mandatory to do it in Germany and I&#x27;m really grateful for that. Especially in times like we live in today. It&#x27;s a great basis for my daily and necessary dose of news. All those extras like good documentaries on media portals are bonus and only hindered by the private media restricting unlimited availability of those materials.<p>Everything beyond that has pretty much grown into either a quite expansive special I don&#x27;t see a justification to pay for, things that everybody else already has and therefore is free or sources that does not offer a way to make a single time donation I&#x27;d love to do to reward a good or interesting article.<p>I&#x27;ll not subscribe.
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mongol将近 5 年前
I would be prepared to pay per article. I am not eager to subscribe to any particular newspaper. I want to consume media &quot;a la carte&quot;, not &quot;all inclusive&quot;.<p>Unfortunately, newspapers wants me to susbcribe and here we are.
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0goel0将近 5 年前
A lot of people justifying not paying for news by saying that they don&#x27;t like ads.<p>Question then: do you never read the news? Because if you do, you are consuming the product. So clearly, you are not against the ads. You just don&#x27;t want to pay for it (even though the median income on HN is high enough that it would be a rounding error for most).
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rocketflumes将近 5 年前
On the issue of bias - I&#x27;m not confident that paid news is necessarily less biased than news that relies on clicks and ads. Two potential issues:<p>1) A news agency might be further incentived to publish biased, &quot;echo-chamber&quot; type of news if they are more effective at convincing readers to pay.<p>2) Detailed news with in-depth research and thorough analysis is expensive to produce, so news agencies that produce such material, if they were to rely on subscriptions, need to charge appropriately expensive fees. This means only a select group of people can afford this news. To generate more revenue, such a quality news sources are incentived to cater content to this limited audience set. Over time this can make quality news inaccessible and even irrelevant to most of the public.
dkdk8283将近 5 年前
I’m not paying for news because I want to see the current model of news die out.<p>It’s opinionated, biased, and heavily edited. When the news gets back to factual unbiased reporting I’ll consider spending money.
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daenz将近 5 年前
If a business has to beg customers to pay, maybe they should step back and re-evaluate the value that they are purporting to offer and the methods with which they are offering it.
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ethn将近 5 年前
I&#x27;m working on this with <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;intrgr.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;intrgr.com</a>.<p>We look for the &lt;meta&gt; field on any article we aggregate for their payment request id <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.w3.org&#x2F;TR&#x2F;payment-request" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.w3.org&#x2F;TR&#x2F;payment-request</a>.<p>In the near future, the article owners will then be paid a portion of the reader subscription corresponding to their share of the total readership.
chrisanthropic将近 5 年前
I&#x27;ve been a fan of the correspondent since they launched: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;thecorrespondent.com&#x2F;principles" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;thecorrespondent.com&#x2F;principles</a><p>Pay what you want, ad-free, paid reporters and staff, and focused on solutions versus sensationalism.
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cercatrova将近 5 年前
It is not my responsibility as a potential customer to subsidize a company&#x27;s business model, regardless of their product, even something as noble as news. If a company cannot stay in business, they deserve to die. That is the nature of evolutionary free markets.
perilunar将近 5 年前
&gt; We herald news as a public service, we forget that tax dollars don’t pay for this public service<p>Here in Aus our tax dollars pay for a very good news service (www.abc.net.au&#x2F;news) Costs us ~11¢ per day each.<p>The commercial news services here are mostly crap and I wouldn&#x27;t pay them cent.
quadrangle将近 5 年前
As difficult as this trade-off for business is, I prefer to financially support journalism that isn&#x27;t compromising its values by using third-party ads. The journalism that rejects advertising is the virtuous journalism that most deserves our dollars.
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vulcan01将近 5 年前
To all of you here complaining about the ads on many news websites:<p>Why not use an adblocker?
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b215826将近 5 年前
I don&#x27;t mind paying for news, but almost all news websites would keep track of what I read if I do that, and it&#x27;s easy to figure out a person&#x27;s political biases from their reading habits.
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joyceschan将近 5 年前
For diversity of opinions, can also try the independent individuals on Youtube with their own news channel. Yes, do try support them, too if you consume their content.
Yen将近 5 年前
I disagree. Don&#x27;t pay for the news.<p>I might pay for Netflix or HBO. If one is insufficiently entertaining, I won&#x27;t. It makes sense for Netflix&#x2F;HBO to compete on producing the most entertaining and addicting product, and I know that&#x27;s exactly what I&#x27;m paying for.<p>If news agencies are funded by having more subscribers, they&#x27;ll also be incentivized to produce the most entertaining and addictive content.<p>The value of news is not in telling me what I want to hear, nor you what you want to hear, it&#x27;s in telling us what we need to hear but don&#x27;t want to. You &amp; I might both be high-minded enough to pay for news that bores us or offends us - but I hardly expect the typical person to do so.<p>I don&#x27;t have a better suggestion - but a per-article paywall, or even a subscription, leads to the same clickbait sensationalist rot that advertiser-supported news suffered.
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jeegsy将近 5 年前
Is there any other industry that believes it is entitled to your custom?
buboard将近 5 年前
the idea that paid news sources are some unique arbiters of truth is dangerous
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SecurityMinded将近 5 年前
News is public knowledge. What you pay is the opinions of the news reporters. I personally have no interest in paying for politically skewed opinions of a pol-sci grad of few years ago. That is why I will never ever subscribe or read any newspaper in print or online. When I acidentally click on a link which takes me to NY Times or LA times or Atlantic titled website, I immediately close it without even perusing the first few lines of content, because I know it will be a political writing, not objective news.
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