People think they're calling restaurants directly but Grubhub is getting a fee

It's disheartening that there's so much due diligence required just to conduct the most basic transactions right now. I have a narrow list of vetted restaurants, where I understand the costs and to the business, the delivery model, the safety (food handling and Covid precautions), and I only take out from these particular places. I tried a new place recently, only to find out I had been duped by Grub-hub, even though I thought I had placed the order on the restaurant's own site (or so I thought). When I went to pickup, the owner set me straight and gave me his card with the correct number. He showed me that I had paid an additional $25 in markup, as well as the fees he was charged, and this was a pickup!

Its astonishing delivery services have the depravity to dupe customers trying to help a hurting industry.<p>If you live in NYC or SF, I built a browser extension that will help you place delivery orders directly with local restaurants. It currently compares the price of your delivery across all delivery services, and within the next week, will link you to local restaurant websites if one is available. For those interested in checking, the link is <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;platerapp.app.link&#x2F;Gsxltl3d06" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;platerapp.app.link&#x2F;Gsxltl3d06</a>

It&#x27;s possible to do this without resorting to the sleazy practices of Grubhub. I used to work for Slice, which provides order-taking (but notably not delivery) for mom-and-pop pizza shops. They don&#x27;t add people to the platform without their permission. They only charge $1&#x2F;order. They help restaurants digitize their menus, keep prices up to date, and they take orders digitally and over the phone. They have a large and responsive customer service department. It&#x27;s all up front, honest, and affordable. It&#x27;s not a direct comparison with Grubhub, since the restaurants still do the deliveries themselves, but it&#x27;s a good business model and an honest company.

Every article I read about restaurants just seems to reinforce that they are powered by their owners hopes and dreams rather than any financial or business literacy. It makes then ripe targets for exploitation.

&gt; “If a customer calls to place a coffee order, we’re paying a $6.42 fee — for a coffee.”<p>This is wrong ! Plain and simple. $6.42 is probably more than the cost of the coffee.<p>Here are somethings you as a consumer can do to help,<p>1. If possible visit the restaurant personally, and order to go<p>2. Find the restaurant&#x27;s phone number on their website &#x2F; Facebook &#x2F; Instagram &#x2F; twitter page.<p>3. Leave a tip<p>I&#x27;ve found that yelp &#x2F; google phone numbers can be in-accurate or lead to a proxy number.

&gt; The redirect number can also appear higher in Google search results (including the Google panel for that business) than the restaurant’s own line.<p>This seems like a pretty fundamental failure on Google&#x27;s part. The whole value proposition of Google is that they&#x27;ll find you the best answer for you search, not just &#x27;an&#x27; answer that could be misinformation. This is the problem with the way their ranking algorithms tend to favor information aggregators. It&#x27;s easy for second-hand sites to out-rank the source of truth. It reminds me of the way Pinterest has degraded the Google image search experience by polluting the results with their own low-quality entries.<p>Now I get that automating the gathering of this information must not be easy. How do you verify the legitimacy of any one page claiming to be the site for a restaurant? What I don&#x27;t understand is how Google can see that sites like Grubhub are exploiting the ranking algorithm to re-route users, but they don&#x27;t do anything about it. Why don&#x27;t they penalize those sites?

Can Grubhub do this phone scamming thing if the restaurants don’t agree to work with Grubhub? If not, it’s on the restaurants to figure out they’re being scammed and cut off Grubhub. I agree it’s extremely sleazy but if restaurants opt into it what can you do?<p>Regarding online ordering: restaurants need to decide if this is a space they want to be in (to grow business by allowing another channel for ordering) then research the field, pick a vendor with a fee model they like (or build their own!) and get actively into the game. For better or worse this is like having a phone number however-many years ago. You can choose not to but the technology is getting more and more popular so if you want to “keep up” you have to learn a new trick.<p>There are some up-front flat-fee vendors out there that will allow you to set up your menu for online order at your domain. And if you don’t want to spend the time, Grubhub will do it for you for a fee, and if you don’t want to pay the fee or spend the time, then cross your fingers and hope your customers are ok ordering by phone. But online ordering is not going to come out of nothing at no cost.

Yeah for this reason I always try to just go the company&#x27;s website and call them. some redirect me to chownow, which is ok, as long as I know that you&#x27;d rather let them handle the order instead of the phone.

Discussion from a couple of weeks ago.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23194727" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23194727</a>

Why are so many popular startups run and funded by sleazebags... anything and everthing to win! Digusting!

It&#x27;s even more infuriating knowing that Grubhub is running these emotional &quot;support local restaurant&quot; ads that imply that using their service is somehow a form of activism while they steal from those very same businesses.

Don&#x27;t most people use Google Maps to find nearby restaurants? Does Google Maps ever give the wrong phone number to order from?<p>I know using the phone is kinda 1900s but sometimes I like to ask about a certain dish I&#x27;m trying and stuff. Sometimes the person talking to me is a bit gruff but I tell myself it&#x27;s OK because at least I&#x27;m not giving any money to the delivery companies.<p>I hope it goes without saying that I always pick up. Any excuse to get out of the house, especially on a work day!

These restaurants signed up for a voluntary man in the middle attack.<p>The reporter should have asked why these restaurants don&#x27;t quit grub hub.

Even worse than just the misleading practices - we&#x27;ve been unable to connect through these proxied phone numbers at all. We just get an out of service tone. Both at&amp;t and T-Mobile. I have been assuming it&#x27;s because too many people are calling. Next time I pickup, I&#x27;ll ask for a direct line.

If you accidentally called GrubHub and asked if you were speaking directly to the restaurant, would they lie to you?

I&#x27;m wondering if they changed their policy in SF or if the restaurants I looked up just have opted out of this.<p>I checked Phat Philly (all phone numbers on their website, grubhub, yelp, and google maps were the same). Same with Sultan Kebab &amp; Gryo King (I couldn&#x27;t find a number on their site but everyone else had the same number)

I am only getting takeout from places I know. I have there menus in a drawer by the fridge. That way, I know I am calling directly.<p>Much of the gig economy is just shyster business, wedging themselves between actual customers and actual providers, and taking far more than the actual value they provide.

I love this paragraph from the pizza arbitrage article, link below.<p>If capitalism is driven by a search for profit, the food delivery business confuses the hell out of me. Every platform loses money. Restaurants feel like they&#x27;re getting screwed. Delivery drivers are poster children for gig economy problems. Customers get annoyed about delivery fees.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;themargins.substack.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;doordash-and-pizza-arbitrage" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;themargins.substack.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;doordash-and-pizza-arbitra...</a>

So how do you avoid calling a 3rd party when Google won&#x27;t show you the correct phone number?

So confused. Do you not have tort law in the US? <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Passing_off" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Passing_off</a>

This is MITM and in many respects extremely unethical. I admit that the premise is clever but it’s little more than ripping people off. There’s no value add to the customer that I can see.

I have instantly gained respect for Buzzfeed&#x27;s reporting.

All of these crowdsourcing apps (Uber, doordash, drizly, instacart) charge about 10-100x what you would think it would take to deliver the service.

If GrubHub brings awareness to your restaurant that turns into an order why shouldn&#x27;t they be compensated? You may not like the commission. Don&#x27;t like it, leave.<p>The only case I think is a step too far is if GrubHub uses their search rank to display results above a non-participating restaurant and attempts to extort commissions by displaying a proxy number anyway. Is there any evidence of this?<p>If a customer decides to store the proxy number in their address book thinking that it&#x27;s a direct line and GrubHub charges the restaurant for each call, then that&#x27;s a bit scummy.

Why don&#x27;t the restaurants just dramatically inflate their prices to accomodate the Grubhub fee? I don&#x27;t understand why it would be better to contact the restaurant directly for the restaurant -- they benefit from Grubhub too, and if they don&#x27;t want to pay the cost they should just pass it on to the customers.<p>The restaurants have voluntarily entered into this arrangement. If they can&#x27;t afford to operate with the fees on top of their regular prices, then they have to increase their prices.

As soon as I hear &quot;your call may be monitored to ensure AWESOMENESS!&quot; I know money is changing hands.

People should ask where who are they speaking to and if the operator lies they should take legal action.

I use yelp to see reviews and menu but call directly to place a &quot;togo&quot; order.

I&#x27;m surprised chownow is not mentioned. Decent product with Fixed upfront pricing

The solution is public peer to peer platforms and protocols.

What if you call the Grubhub number from a prison phone!

So much signalling on here...