TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

On Redis master-slave terminology (2018)

188 点作者 markdog12将近 5 年前

37 条评论

IceDane将近 5 年前
Note that this is from 2018.<p>I personally totally agree with the author. Anyone who chooses to be offended by words used in a totally different context is doing exactly that - choosing to be offended.<p>If we keep going down this path of endless meaningless virtue signalling, where will we stop? Is the term &quot;black hole&quot; racist too? What about blackout? Etc, etc.<p>No one really cares about these terms and it they do their opinion shouldn&#x27;t outweigh the time, effort required to fix it, or the opinions of everyone else.<p>Supporting this kind of asinine shit is essentially letting big corps like Google get away with doing practically nothing while seeming like the good guys. Stop focusing on the surface level shit and start focusing on the real issues.
评论 #23509624 未加载
评论 #23510312 未加载
评论 #23511314 未加载
评论 #23510010 未加载
评论 #23511531 未加载
评论 #23510102 未加载
评论 #23509720 未加载
评论 #23512695 未加载
评论 #23509702 未加载
评论 #23509766 未加载
mk1982将近 5 年前
In the meantime, the Slave terminology is on its way out in Redis too.<p>Here are a few commits: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;antirez&#x2F;redis&#x2F;search?q=%22slave+removal%22&amp;type=Commits" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;antirez&#x2F;redis&#x2F;search?q=%22slave+removal%2...</a><p>Here&#x27;s the issue where some of the discussion happened: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;antirez&#x2F;redis&#x2F;issues&#x2F;5335" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;antirez&#x2F;redis&#x2F;issues&#x2F;5335</a>
评论 #23509704 未加载
评论 #23510021 未加载
评论 #23509775 未加载
brianwawok将近 5 年前
I suspect this is one of those topics that at some point, everyone will have just switched terms because it&#x27;s not worth the hassle to fight these fights over and over again. Kind of a &quot;I&#x27;m not wrong, but is it a good use of 20 hours a year to argue about this?&quot;
评论 #23509398 未加载
评论 #23509494 未加载
评论 #23509587 未加载
评论 #23509440 未加载
评论 #23509851 未加载
评论 #23512724 未加载
x3haloed将近 5 年前
The project maintainer absolutely has the right to choose not to remove offensive language. Although, I find his position to be unnecessarily defensive. What is he really fighting for? The language is outdated and stems from a practice that is universally shunned. There is work involved in changing the language yet there is no harm in it. People absolutely have the right to be offended. Feeling offended is just that - a feeling. If we don’t have a right to experience feelings, then what do we have a right to? And the right to express our feelings with our speech and writing is known as “freedom of speech”, which is not a universal right in the world, but it’s a popular one. While it’s impossible to prevent offending everyone all the time, again, it’s outdated language referring to a shunned practice. This is more than a handful of individuals expressing offended feelings based on esoteric personal perspectives. Changing the language would be more welcoming towards people who still deal with the fallout of such a shunned practice. Again, doing so is not a requirement of any kind, and I’m not claiming racism. I’m just claiming a failure to understand, respect, and welcome people who live in a world still mired in the effects of a devastating practice. I would change the language.
评论 #23509890 未加载
评论 #23509899 未加载
评论 #23509749 未加载
joshuakelly将近 5 年前
@dang please add a year flag to this - it&#x27;s especially important given that Redis and antirez moved in a direction opposite of what this blog post describes (see other comments in the thread)
dewey将近 5 年前
I&#x27;ve read about a bunch of these renaming efforts in the past weeks and I think some of these are very justified while some of them seem to take it further than necessary.<p>The master&#x2F;slave naming seems clearly outdated to me and this one is a direct reference to slavery. A better word like replica exists so I&#x27;m using that instead. This makes a lot of sense.<p>On the other hand there&#x27;s efforts to rename white&#x2F;black list or the &quot;master&quot; branch on git. I&#x27;ve never thought of these as even being related to racism until people started opening issues on Github projects about that. A master branch in this context is just like a vinyl master, or a master class to me. The final finished product and not any kind of reference to slavery. Am I wrong?
评论 #23509417 未加载
评论 #23509471 未加载
评论 #23509626 未加载
评论 #23509847 未加载
评论 #23509947 未加载
oddevan将近 5 年前
The problem I’m starting to see is that the continued use of phrases like this (master&#x2F;slave, blacklist&#x2F;whitelist) can be a constant reminder to some that they “don’t belong here.” Obviously, in this context, they aren’t meant to be racist; but they are a reminder that racism exists. The end result is that it makes more people feel unwanted and ultimately leave tech.
评论 #23509584 未加载
评论 #23509534 未加载
评论 #23520576 未加载
评论 #23509453 未加载
评论 #23509632 未加载
评论 #23509770 未加载
zozbot234将近 5 年前
Here we go again. But seriously, what&#x27;s wrong with using &quot;primary&quot; and &quot;replica&quot; in a database context? They&#x27;re generally clearer terms anyway. Obviously we&#x27;ll be stuck talking about &quot;master&quot; and &quot;slave&quot; IDE connectors and the like, but other than that it seems to be falling out of use pretty much everywhere.
评论 #23509647 未加载
评论 #23509922 未加载
ljm将近 5 年前
I have to be honest, I think this kind of conversation is a difficult one to have because it can be far too easy to start arguing against what you <i>think</i> the other person is saying, not what they actually <i>are</i> saying. There&#x27;s a lot of nuance that isn&#x27;t done justice to (perhaps ironically so), especially as these conversations kick off from github issues, or on social media, and almost instantly devolve from there.<p>I often find myself getting a headache while reading some of these &#x27;conversations&#x27; as I try to get my head around the various perspectives at play. Some of it is truly exhausting, particularly the &#x27;what about the slippery slope&#x27; argument that often comes up (in this comment section we have &#x27;what about black hole&#x27;, &#x27;what about blackout&#x27;; in others it&#x27;s &#x27;what about maestro&#x27;, etc.). Similarly, it&#x27;s tiring to repeatedly hear the defence of censoring or erasing history. At the same time, the same is true of those in a hurry to brand others as racists, fascists, or otherwise phobic of something. These all feel like blunt instruments that do more to shut down the conversation rather than encourage it.<p>There are way more than two sides to this story, it really isn&#x27;t as black and white as the conversation can make it out to be (on so many levels). And as far as I&#x27;m concerned it&#x27;s a conversation that requires one to take a step back for several moments and seriously consider the things that are currently at stake, and to start healthily unpacking this before jumping to an instinctual response.<p>For me, the way we discuss this is just as much about compassion and genuine empathy, and adapting to change, as it is anything else. And also for me, if the terms &#x27;master&#x27; and &#x27;slave&#x27; have served their purpose and need to be changed, so be it. That doesn&#x27;t upset me at all, but the toxic and hateful drama that often spews from such a decision really does.
qbaqbaqba将近 5 年前
Why do majority of people here hearing slave thinks about black people? &quot;Slave&quot; comes from Latin where it initially meant a Slavic person. Northern African slave traders, Turkish jasyr slaves, slavery of eastern European women (Slavic and Jewish) sold to brothels in South America are also all but forgotten. Racism is disgusting in any form but limiting slavery to only America is also racist.
rrss将近 5 年前
(I have no opposition to replacing master-slave, this is not intended as bait - I&#x27;m curious what others think).<p>How about &quot;robot?&quot; From &quot;Broken Metaphor: The Master-Slave Analogy in Technical Literature&quot; [1]:<p>&gt; a new term meaning &quot;slave&quot; was entering the English language to describe an autonomous device meant to obey its master: &quot;robot,&quot; from the 1923 translation of Karel Cˇapek&#x27;s 1921 play R.U.R. (the word robot having been derived from a Czech word for slave, &quot;robotnik&quot;).<p>If &#x27;robot&#x27; isn&#x27;t problematic, why is that? Is it because because the word is more decoupled from its origin than &#x27;slave,&#x27; or because the origin of the word is less well known? Or is the negative-ness lost in translation?<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;muse.jhu.edu&#x2F;article&#x2F;215390" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;muse.jhu.edu&#x2F;article&#x2F;215390</a>
danharaj将近 5 年前
All the discussion on this submission tells me is that it&#x27;s not enough to disagree with others, one also has to ridicule them and emphasize how stupid they are for having a position one doesn&#x27;t understand. Maybe even tie it to a greater culture war where inferiors who don&#x27;t deserve to be in tech are ruining it for the ones already here. Stay hackernews, hackernews.
js2将近 5 年前
My guess is that this was resubmitted due to this opinion piece the Washington Post ran yesterday:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.washingtonpost.com&#x2F;opinions&#x2F;2020&#x2F;06&#x2F;12&#x2F;tech-industry-has-an-ugly-master-slave-problem&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.washingtonpost.com&#x2F;opinions&#x2F;2020&#x2F;06&#x2F;12&#x2F;tech-indu...</a>
tinyhouse将近 5 年前
He&#x27;s right. Unfortunately there are many people like Mark. They fight worthless fights and attack people who disagree with them. It&#x27;s very American to sweep problems under the carpet because of political correctness.
eloff将近 5 年前
Between this and the commit replacing sexually charged hexspeak constants, I&#x27;m shaking my head this morning.<p>It makes me want to be less politically correct on purpose just to troll the kinds of people who advocate for this meaningless crap.<p>Words are not inherently offensive, if not used in an offensive manner. Can we just all please go back to being grownups now?
krisgenre将近 5 年前
What a coincidence! I was just reading <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;redis.io&#x2F;topics&#x2F;replication" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;redis.io&#x2F;topics&#x2F;replication</a> few hours back and when I saw this <i>leader-follower (master-slave)</i> I couldn&#x27;t help but wonder why they were bringing in a new terminology.
retox将近 5 年前
Allow me to be offended on behalf of you, and if you aren&#x27;t offended then you are a problem too.
评论 #23509486 未加载
评论 #23509497 未加载
jason0597将近 5 年前
Flagged? Why guys?
loco5niner将近 5 年前
Agree with antirez - this is not a problem.<p>However, the hecklers will probably end up having their way simply because they do not have better things to do.
Muromec将近 5 年前
Could I take a moment to be offended by the mere existence of the word “slave” and it being used in historical discussion about forced labor and treating people as property, on behalf of all slavic people?<p>It’s ridiculous that Americans appropriate the name of my people to deal with the problems of their own society.
评论 #23510366 未加载
luord将近 5 年前
I definitely disagree with some parts of the article, but his basic point on the futility of giving way too much power to harmless words is sound.<p>So much so that I don&#x27;t understand why this got flagged (while, for instance, the one on github trying to change this wasn&#x27;t).
mjw1007将近 5 年前
On this subject: there&#x27;s a conversation pattern that goes like this:<p>A: &quot;Please change terminology X to Y because X is ethically bad, and Y is clearer anyway.&quot;<p>B: &quot;I disagree about Y being clearer.&quot;<p>A: &quot;You&#x27;re an evil partisan of ethical-problem-in-question.&quot;<p>I&#x27;ve seen this far too often and I think it&#x27;s terrible.<p>I strongly recommend anyone who is advocating a terminology change to either leave out the &quot;and Y is clearer anyway&quot; part, or be willing to discuss that part independently of the ethical part.
sawaruna将近 5 年前
This is a newer post about the topic but was flagged. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23485533" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23485533</a>
PresidentChuck将近 5 年前
Fork it like GIMP and you can have your controller &#x2F; agent
评论 #23509849 未加载
hintymad将近 5 年前
Oh, great. So much progressiveness. An article that was discussed two years ago was quickly flagged today.
idoby将近 5 年前
At this rate, looks like I&#x27;m about to be pursuing a Replica of Science degree...
angryasian将近 5 年前
what are people calling it instead of master &#x2F; slave ?
mshron将近 5 年前
Can a mod put [2018] in the title?
YeGoblynQueenne将近 5 年前
Needs 2018 tag. I thought this was a reprise of the old discussion in light of events in the USA. Instead, it&#x27;s about something that happened two years ago.
dgellow将近 5 年前
(2018)
travisoneill1将近 5 年前
What does he mean that you can&#x27;t say &quot;fake news&quot; on HN?
评论 #23509555 未加载
评论 #23509444 未加载
unit-test将近 5 年前
The Long March through the institutions.<p>If you wanted to breed radicalization, this how you&#x27;d do it.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;The_long_march_through_the_institutions" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;The_long_march_through_the_i...</a>
axaxs将近 5 年前
I find the top comment to be the most insightful thing here, and wish everyone who is running these campaigns would read it.
评论 #23509605 未加载
meddlepal将近 5 年前
If you don&#x27;t like what a project is doing then fork it and maintain it yourself.
评论 #23512913 未加载
Asooka将近 5 年前
You know, of all people, it is Slavs who should be the most offended at the use of master-slave terminology. That&#x27;s where the word comes from - &quot;slave&quot; literally started out as &quot;Slav person&quot;. But as an actual Slav, I find it very hard to be offended. It&#x27;s just a word, it can&#x27;t hurt me and it doesn&#x27;t imply anything harmful. Of course, the politics du jour will dictate your reaction to censorious demands, but I just find it a bit funny.
ianwalter将近 5 年前
It doesn&#x27;t matter if YOU don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s offensive. It&#x27;s about how others think and feel about it. Are people really so self-centered that they can&#x27;t understand that? And the slippery slope argument doesn&#x27;t hold water because it&#x27;s very obvious when a good number of people have a problem with it vs one or two people who are trying to be provocative. People are reasonable and if they are telling you something bothers them, it most likely legitimately bothers them.
评论 #23509669 未加载
评论 #23509678 未加载
评论 #23509795 未加载
hartator将近 5 年前
&gt; was disappointed to see that Redis still uses the “master” and “slave” terminology in order to identify different roles in Redis replication.<p>What&#x27;s funny to me, it&#x27;s these people are against the terminology but not against the concept. Like if you are against the words, why is okay for a Redis node to be a slave and ordered around by a Redis master? Shouldn&#x27;t all Redis nodes be equal?