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Religion may become extinct in nine nations

86 点作者 marcog1大约 14 年前

19 条评论

winestock大约 14 年前
Religion isn't the only thing becoming extinct in those nations.<p>Go to Wikipedia and search for "Demographics of <i>X</i>" where <i>X</i> is a nation from the list given in the above-linked article: Australia, Austria, Canada, Czech Republic, Finland, Ireland, the Netherlands, New Zealand, and Switzerland.<p>(Nation/ Total Fertility Rate) (Australia/ 1.97) (Austria/ 1.41) (Canada/ 1.58) (Czech Republic/ 1.49) (Finland/ 1.85) (Ireland/ 2.1) (Netherlands/ 1.66) (New Zealand/ 2.1) (Switzerland/ 1.46)<p>Those numbers are for the years 2007 to 2009, depending on the nation. Note that only Ireland and New Zealand are at replacement levels. Residual Catholic natalism may explain Ireland's current fertility (given their loss of religion, don't expect that to last). Reading between the lines in the Wikipedia article for New Zealand, it seems that the Maori and Pacific Islanders are doing more than their fair share of baby-making. My guess is that they are more religious than the contracepting whites.<p>Bottom line: Lack of religion is either non-adaptive from a fitness perspective, or it is strongly tied to traits which are themselves non-adaptive.<p>UPDATE: I can't get the formatting right on that table of fertility rates.
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jojofloor大约 14 年前
Religion is a burden on society, a social trait from civilizations past, they lacked the vast majority of scientific knowledge we currently embrace, this "evolution" was bound to happen sooner or later.<p>Any rational intelligent being should quite clearly see the fundamental floors of all religions, how they act mearly as placebos at best; but primarily as precursors to wars, hours of wasted time per week on mundane rituals, dark ages, etc.
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tjic大约 14 年前
Public and private religiosity was ramping down in the Roman Empire around 30 AD as well.<p>Beware taking 20 years worth of data points and drawing century long lines from them.
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synnik大约 14 年前
Even the great Hari Seldon was unable to accurately turn mathematical models into true predictions of human society without the intervention of R. Daneel Olivaw.
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gjm11大约 14 年前
I looked at the paper (already kindly linked by bartonfink, but here it is again: <a href="http://arxiv.org/abs/1012.1375" rel="nofollow">http://arxiv.org/abs/1012.1375</a>). I think there's considerably less to it than meets the eye.<p>The authors have a very simple model of the dynamics of religious adherence, which amounts to saying: people convert from one (ir)religious position to another in numbers proportional to some function of (1) the fraction of the population currently adhering to each position and (2) some measure of how attractive each position is. They assume that #2 is constant over time. They choose a particular (reasonably plausible) form for the dependency on #1. They have a couple of free parameters, which they adjust to make their predictions fit reality as well as possible. They plot a few graphs, which show their predictions fitting tolerably well.<p>They observe, quite rightly, that their analysis implies that on not-terribly-long timescales whichever position is more attractive will dominate completely. They fail to observe that since at present neither religion (any, or all collectively) nor irreligion is completely dominant anywhere, the attractivenesses must in fact be varying over time, and that future changes to that parameter make an enormous difference to their model’s predictions. They fail to consider the possibility that their model (even if generally adequate) may break down badly for small-minority positions. (If so, its predictions about extinction of any position could be very wrong.) They fail to consider that differences in personality, experiences, etc., may render (ir)religion differently attractive to different people, which could entirely change their model’s predictions near the edges. (That is, once it starts predicting that either religion or irreligion will go extinct or nearly so. That is, exactly the situation the headline describes.)<p>They do (and frankly this is the only interesting bit) consider the effect of clustering effects: a person’s conversion probability may depend not on the <i>overall</i> popularity of the "old" and "new" positions but on their local popularity: people are affected more by their friends, family, neighbours, colleagues, etc. They find that provided people aren’t completely isolated this doesn’t make a huge difference to the overall prediction of the model.<p>I don't think the paper gives much more reason to anticipate the extinction of religion than we already had. (Opinions vary as to how much that is...)
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bartonfink大约 14 年前
I find this very interesting, and I hope that they get it peer reviewed somewhere so it's more "official" than arxiv. I don't normally view religion as a social activity, and this analysis seems to hinge on social factors (i.e. it seems to be counting edges instead of nodes). Religion doesn't seem to necessitate multiple people in the same way that language does, so I wonder whether their model might be fundamentally flawed. Looks like my pile of papers to read just got a couple pages higher.<p>The link to download the paper is here if anyone wants it.<p><a href="http://arxiv.org/abs/1012.1375" rel="nofollow">http://arxiv.org/abs/1012.1375</a>
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dsuriano大约 14 年前
This is the best news I've read all morning.
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trustfundbaby大约 14 年前
I'm of the opinion that as man understands more about the world and how to actually control it (through science and technology) that his reliance or use for religion will fall.<p>It'd be interesting to see a study on that, because I think uncertainty (about anything) ... is a space in the human psyche that is filled by Religion.
bsandbox大约 14 年前
I'm unaware of any collection of humans in history that did not practice some form of religion. I suspect that religion will become extinct only when we humans do too.
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TamDenholm大约 14 年前
I've always thought religion would become less and less prevalent. Being non-religious was extremely rare before evolution was discovered and now its growing in popularity since we now know more, i think that trend will continue.<p>Evolution has had about 150 years, religion has had multiple thousands of years. In my opinion its just a matter of time before religious belief becomes a minority everywhere.
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Apocryphon大约 14 年前
These nations have always been prosperous and secularized- this doesn't exactly sound like startling use. The decline of religion as a social institution in these countries will not forestall the existence of bigotry, irrationality, and folly- those are all inevitable problems of human nature.
Maci大约 14 年前
People are realising more and more that it's ones self who is in control and do not need to channel their willpower thru an external entity to make things happen / hope that things will go well. Same thing being that it's modern medical science that extends people's lifetime and cures illness, Education that teaches us evolution, Etc, Etc.<p>Besides, Everything has a beginning and an ending so it's hardly surprising.<p>For everything else there's the dream of "The Empathic Civilisation".<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7AWnfFRc7g" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7AWnfFRc7g</a>
ranprieur大约 14 年前
As far as I can tell, they're defining "religious" as people claiming to be religious, and "non-religious" as people claiming no religious affiliation. So they're assuming that everyone means the same thing by the word "religion", and that these people's unspoken definition is a useful concept.<p>Atheists like to talk about the harm done by "religion". But this harm might be done by deeper habits of thinking that will persist in people who identify in surveys as "non-religious".
aj700大约 14 年前
In 200 years they will say: Irrational and women hating creation memes all died in the 21st Century, and the people became truly civilised.
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Someone大约 14 年前
I found it weird that they claim to have used census data from the Netherlands. The last census in the Netherlands was 40 years ago (<a href="http://www.volkstellingen.nl/en/" rel="nofollow">http://www.volkstellingen.nl/en/</a>) I would hope they used other sources (data from the CBS (Central Bureau of Statistics) would be the primary candidate)
tintin大约 14 年前
<i>"The study found a steady rise in those claiming no religious affiliation."</i> No religious affiliation does not mean people are becoming non-believers. I hear a lot of people who believe (in whatever) but don't want to be marked as religious.
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speleding大约 14 年前
I wonder which one will be the first to be extinct, IE6 or religion. I wonder if there is a correlation between the two. Questions, questions.
aik大约 14 年前
I'm not entirely sure about this...what's their timeline? I live in Australia and seeing Australia on the list was a huge surprise.
rbanffy大约 14 年前
Thank God!<p>(sorry, couldn't resist)