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Ghoti

317 点作者 marvindanig将近 5 年前

32 条评论

dakiol将近 5 年前
As a non-English speaker, I find the English spoken by non-native speakers far easier to understand and deal with than the English spoken by Americans&#x2F;British.<p>I work with Germans, Italians, Spaniards, French, Dutch and I understand them 99% of the time. We use &quot;normal&quot; words (we are not fancy regarding vocabulary) and pronounce them in a non-native way (the way all Europeans that speak English understand)... But the moment our British colleagues join the conversation, then our understanding decreases to around 70%: either because of the usage of &quot;fancy&quot; words or because of pronunciation.<p>Besides, since we all make the same mistakes when speaking English, we understand each other without asking &quot;sorry, what do you mean?&quot;
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imglorp将近 5 年前
If this irritates anyone, you might be interested in the work of George Bernard Shaw and Kingsley Read to reform English spelling. They proposed a consistent, phonetic, spelling and writing system called Shavian and published a now-rare book using that system. The second iteration made some slight usability and efficiency improvements and called the new work Quikscript.<p>Of course, in an alternate universe, this superior writing system was adopted along with the full SI unit system.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;omniglot.com&#x2F;writing&#x2F;shavian.htm" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;omniglot.com&#x2F;writing&#x2F;shavian.htm</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;shavian.weebly.com&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;1&#x2F;0&#x2F;2&#x2F;1&#x2F;10212142&#x2F;30817_orig.jpg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;shavian.weebly.com&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;1&#x2F;0&#x2F;2&#x2F;1&#x2F;10212142&#x2F;30817_or...</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.quikscript.net&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.quikscript.net&#x2F;</a>
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every将近 5 年前
&quot;Homophones, Weakly&quot;[0] enjoys a place in my RSS feed. And I have a supposedly complete version of the referenced poem, &quot;The Chaos&quot;[1]...<p>[0] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;homophonesweakly.blogspot.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;homophonesweakly.blogspot.com&#x2F;</a><p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;every.sdf.org&#x2F;various&#x2F;longish&#x2F;thechaos.txt" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;every.sdf.org&#x2F;various&#x2F;longish&#x2F;thechaos.txt</a>
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spoiler将近 5 年前
There was also a meme going around that one can spell &quot;potato&quot; like &quot;Ghoughphtheightteeau&quot; with the following explanation:<p>- gh for P as in &quot;hiccough&quot;<p>- ough for O as in &quot;dough&quot;<p>- phth for T as in &quot;phthisis&quot;<p>- eigh for A as in &quot;neighbour&quot;<p>- tte for T as in &quot;gazette&quot;<p>- eau for O as in &quot;plateau&quot;<p>edit: formatting
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myth2018将近 5 年前
That is one of the reasons why I think Esperanto has too much more to offer to the World as an international language than English.<p>I&#x27;m not an activist. Besides, I enjoy so many features of English.<p>But the resources one must invest to learn it as a second language make it unreachable to a huge amount of people around the globe, providing breeding ground to the formation of &quot;linguistic elites&quot; and deepening social and economic inequalities.<p>Having contact with poor people in my country and others and being a non-native speaker myself make me very aware of that.
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LatteLazy将近 5 年前
I&#x27;m a native English speaker who is currently learning German. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR MAKING YOUR SPELLING Work GERMANY! Sorry about our mess of BS you have to learn to use English.
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godelski将近 5 年前
This reminds me of a stack exchange puzzle that uses this same pattern. [0]<p>While this isn&#x27;t the &quot;correct&quot; answer I think everyone agrees that it is the &quot;best&quot; answer (or at least the funniest). As a language lover, this is just a beautiful and hilarious.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;puzzling.stackexchange.com&#x2F;a&#x2F;32280&#x2F;22182" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;puzzling.stackexchange.com&#x2F;a&#x2F;32280&#x2F;22182</a>
tryauuum将近 5 年前
I think this example is far-fetched and, due to being so far-fetched, is useless. I mean there are no actual english words where &quot;gh&quot; at the beginning of a word would be pronounced as &quot;f&quot;, right? And &quot;gh&quot; at the end of a word hints heavily that you should pronounce it as &quot;f&quot;, there are no irregularities here.
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Kim_Bruning将近 5 年前
Once upon a time, I figured out the reason why &#x27;gh&#x27; is so inconsistent. It used to be its own sound, but that sound has vanished from the English language.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Gh_(digraph)#English" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Gh_(digraph)#English</a><p>&#x27;ti&#x27; pronounced as &#x27;sh&#x27; is only in french loan words afaict.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;List_of_Latin-script_digraphs#T" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;List_of_Latin-script_digraphs#...</a><p>I don&#x27;t yet know how the &#x27;o&#x27; in woman becomes an &#x27;i&#x27;. When I do, I&#x27;ll have finally cracked the whole of ghoti.
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toddsiegel将近 5 年前
In teaching my young son to read I have become starkly aware at just how inconsistent English is.<p>I never consciously realized how many ways there are to pronounce &quot;ough&quot;. And not a single one makes sense.<p>That said, I am amazed at how quickly he&#x27;s figuring it all out.
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_emacsomancer_将近 5 年前
Given the variation amongst different varieties of English, a phonetically-based reform would be tricky. E.g., should we spell &#x27;car&#x27; as &#x27;kar&#x27; or &#x27;kaa&#x27;?<p>(It&#x27;s also worth mentioning that English spelling is position-dependent: there aren&#x27;t any real words where &#x27;gh&#x27; at the beginning is pronounced as &#x27;f&#x27;.)
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glandium将近 5 年前
Relatedly, this video is hilarious: What If English Were Phonetically Consistent? <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=A8zWWp0akUU" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=A8zWWp0akUU</a>
wcameronmiller将近 5 年前
I&#x27;m glad the Wikipedia article included the link to this page (<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;zompist.com&#x2F;spell.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;zompist.com&#x2F;spell.html</a>) that give a good breakdown of the actual general rules of English spelling - granted there&#x27;s almost 60 of them.
fermienrico将近 5 年前
Nationalism is rampant and leaking through in this thread. “English” sucks, replace with ______ native tongue is better. Someone posted a thread about cost of their neighborhood road renovation project and immediately an Australian tells the thread that America feels like a third world country from a sample size of exactly 1. I am not even American.<p>Everyone is getting tribal. Humanity is splitting apart with infighting even on a highly intellectual community as HN.<p>Folks, please try to be civil and self-introspective, especially if something you say perhaps is hypocritical or fuels your own nationalistic pscyche. Seek truth - the language nature understands, not our evolutionary tribalism and cultures.
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livealife将近 5 年前
This is because in English it&#x27;s not always that you speak what you write. Pronunciation is different for the same letter in different cases. In some languages (mainly Indian) like Hindi, we speak what we write and we write what we speak i.e. Our letters have a definite and unique sounds.
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anonu将近 5 年前
Ghoti, sure... But the whole world still wants to learn English. Most people are not deterred by the messed up spelling and other irregularities.<p>Also, English like any language is a living and breathing thing. New words come in, new spellings, etc... Reform would cause even more confusion than benefits
aledalgrande将近 5 年前
And natives still laugh when I pronounce a word wrong between the million others I say
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MichaelMoser123将近 5 年前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ghotit.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ghotit.com&#x2F;</a> the name of this company relates to this; they sell a spell checker that is specially suited for people with dyslexia.
imedadel将近 5 年前
Concerning the spelling reform, is there any language that recently underwent a successful spelling reform? And by recent, I mean in the last 10 years.<p>The thing is that with the widespread usage of the internet it seems harder to successfully reform the orthography of a language. Every language is, nowadays, in one way or another decentralized and uncontrolled by language authorities.
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zzo38computer将近 5 年前
It is correct the English spelling is really messy. Maybe, it is because they use Latin alphabets; Latin alphabets are good for writing in Latin (and, I suppose, Romantic languages), but for English perhaps isn&#x27;t as good; but, it is what we have now, so it is what we are going to do. Germanic (futhorc) alphabets might be better way for writing English, maybe.
timonoko将近 5 年前
In Lapland you can often see Germans and Finns use particularly &quot;phonetic&quot; English. The writing system is similar, so it is easier to pronounce words as they are written, instead of trying some fancy Hollywood way.<p>This might be the future of spoken English as most other languages have same wholesome writing system, and thus there are no ambiguities.
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html5web将近 5 年前
<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;ghoti.xyz" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;ghoti.xyz</a> redirects to the Wikipedia article.
jdminhbg将近 5 年前
&gt; while ti would only resemble sh when followed by a vowel sound (&quot;mention&quot;, &quot;martian&quot;, &quot;patient&quot;, &quot;spatial&quot;).<p>ti isn&#x27;t &quot;sh&quot; in &quot;mention,&quot; it&#x27;s &quot;ch,&quot; at least in any dialect I&#x27;m aware of. Cf. slang for Twitter mentions, &quot;menchies.&quot;
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black6将近 5 年前
Dearest creature in creation, Study English pronunciation. I will teach you in my verse Sounds like corpse, corps, horse, and worse. I will keep you, Suzy, busy, Make your head with heat grow dizzy. Tear in eye, your dress will tear. So shall I! Oh hear my prayer.<p>Just compare heart, beard, and heard, Dies and diet, lord and word, Sword and sward, retain and Britain. (Mind the latter, how it&#x27;s written.) Now I surely will not plague you With such words as plaque and ague. But be careful how you speak: Say break and steak, but bleak and streak; Cloven, oven, how and low, Script, receipt, show, poem, and toe.<p>Hear me say, devoid of trickery, Daughter, laughter, and Terpsichore, Typhoid, measles, topsails, aisles, Exiles, similes, and reviles; Scholar, vicar, and cigar, Solar, mica, war and far; One, anemone, Balmoral, Kitchen, lichen, laundry, laurel; Gertrude, German, wind and mind, Scene, Melpomene, mankind.<p>Billet does not rhyme with ballet, Bouquet, wallet, mallet, chalet. Blood and flood are not like food, Nor is mould like should and would. Viscous, viscount, load and broad, Toward, to forward, to reward. And your pronunciation&#x27;s OK When you correctly say croquet, Rounded, wounded, grieve and sieve, Friend and fiend, alive and live.<p>Ivy, privy, famous; clamour And enamour rhymes with hammer. River, rival, tomb, bomb, comb, Doll and roll and some and home. Stranger does not rhyme with anger, Neither does devour with clangour. Souls but foul, haunt but aunt, Font, front, wont, want, grand, and grant, Shoes, goes, does. Now first say finger, And then singer, ginger, linger, Real, zeal, mauve, gauze, gouge and gauge, Marriage, foliage, mirage, and age.<p>Query does not rhyme with very, Nor does fury sound like bury. Dost, lost, post and doth, cloth, loth. Job, nob, bosom, transom, oath. Though the differences seem little, We say actual but victual. Refer does not rhyme with deafer. Foeffer does, and zephyr, heifer. Mint, pint, senate and sedate; Dull, bull, and George ate late. Scenic, Arabic, Pacific, Science, conscience, scientific.<p>Liberty, library, heave and heaven, Rachel, ache, moustache, eleven. We say hallowed, but allowed, People, leopard, towed, but vowed. Mark the differences, moreover, Between mover, cover, clover; Leeches, breeches, wise, precise, Chalice, but police and lice; Camel, constable, unstable, Principle, disciple, label.<p>Petal, panel, and canal, Wait, surprise, plait, promise, pal. Worm and storm, chaise, chaos, chair, Senator, spectator, mayor. Tour, but our and succour, four. Gas, alas, and Arkansas. Sea, idea, Korea, area, Psalm, Maria, but malaria. Youth, south, southern, cleanse and clean. Doctrine, turpentine, marine.<p>Compare alien with Italian, Dandelion and battalion. Sally with ally, yea, ye, Eye, I, ay, aye, whey, and key. Say aver, but ever, fever, Neither, leisure, skein, deceiver. Heron, granary, canary. Crevice and device and aerie.<p>Face, but preface, not efface. Phlegm, phlegmatic, ass, glass, bass. Large, but target, gin, give, verging, Ought, out, joust and scour, scourging. Ear, but earn and wear and tear Do not rhyme with here but ere. Seven is right, but so is even, Hyphen, roughen, nephew Stephen, Monkey, donkey, Turk and jerk, Ask, grasp, wasp, and cork and work.<p>Pronunciation -- think of Psyche! Is a paling stout and spikey? Won&#x27;t it make you lose your wits, Writing groats and saying grits? It&#x27;s a dark abyss or tunnel: Strewn with stones, stowed, solace, gunwale, Islington and Isle of Wight, Housewife, verdict and indict.<p>Finally, which rhymes with enough? Though, through, plough, or dough, or cough?
flobosg将近 5 年前
Hou tu pranownse Inglish: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.zompist.com&#x2F;spell.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.zompist.com&#x2F;spell.html</a><p>EDIT: Just realized that the link is already mentioned elsewhere.
janpen将近 5 年前
Conlang critic&#x27;s take <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;TEsqY4MH40s" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;TEsqY4MH40s</a>
livealife将近 5 年前
One of the core problems of English language.
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html5web将近 5 年前
As a polyglot and linguist, I have analyzed the spelling as follows:<p>Gh - Arabic hard G, O - Persian Ou, Ti - Russian Tee.
livealife将近 5 年前
More of such intriguing facts can be found in the book by Martin Jurafsky, Computational linguistics.
asplake将近 5 年前
considered harmful
selimthegrim将近 5 年前
I thought this was about Eastern and Western Bengali at first.
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pickdenis将近 5 年前
Ghoughphtheightteeau
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