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Show HN: Web3Torrent – Adding Ethereum Micropayments to WebTorrent

206 点作者 lihorne将近 5 年前

14 条评论

yoavm将近 5 年前
&quot;Torrenting has an incentivization problem. There is sometimes a real lack of incentive to seed a file, especially for obscure files where you may only find a single digit number of people that have it. Adding monetary incentives to the existing torrenting structure should prove to be extremely interesting.&quot;<p>In my opinion, if torrenting meant one needs to pay for download, we would never have heard about torrents. This might give people more incentive to seed, but I&#x27;d never use it for what I use torrents - get stuff for free or reduce the load of FOSS servers.<p>To me it&#x27;s the usual crypto thing - very cool from a technological perspective, not useful in real life.<p>edit: typos
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saurik将近 5 年前
I honestly haven&#x27;t spent much time looking into &quot;virtual state channels&quot;, but I guess, as someone from Orchid, where we have been tackling this kind of problem in what I&#x27;ve always felt was a much simpler and &quot;more straightforward&quot; way than needing a full &quot;layer 2&quot; network--we are using &quot;probabilistic nanopayments&quot;, which is a concept that goes back to the 90s and thereby doesn&#x27;t have a lot of &quot;crypto&quot; context associated with it, but even that always felt like a feature ;P) that allows for amortized on-chain settlement in a fully peer-to-peer&#x2F;distributed way (with no federated network of channel &quot;hubs&quot;)--I&#x27;m really curious to know if anyone has tried to compare&#x2F;contrast the techniques. (I&#x27;d then offer to help doing an integration of our system, which we&#x27;ve had in production for a bit now as part of an app that looks a bit like a pay-by-the-usage VPN market, into Web3Torrent, but I can&#x27;t tell if the background goal here is to examine all solutions in an attempt to make Ethereum more usable, or if the effort is to narrowly focus on this specific vision of state channels, at which point that would clearly be an awkward interaction at best ;P.)
rixtox将近 5 年前
I&#x27;m supprised no one has mentioned the fair exchange problem: if A, B engage in an exchange protocol, say A sends data to B while B paying to A, how to achieve fairness using an asynchornous protocol. Without a third party, either one of the two parties has to be in a position of advantage where it can choose to walk off without fulfilling his part of the contract.<p>The problem still exists under &quot;micro-transaction&quot; scheme, but in a less exploitable sense: because each transaction only involves a small amount of money or data, it&#x27;s probably okay if you encountered with a cheater with one or two transactions. You can just block them after catching them cheating.<p>But the cheaters can still exploit this problem for their own gain: they just repeat this scheme with all other users on the network, until they received the whoe file without spending anything.<p>I don&#x27;t see this protocol preventing such exploitable scenario. In fact it&#x27;s a very difficult problem to solve efficiently and without a traditional trusted third party. It&#x27;s even been proved [1] that strong fairness is impossible without a trusted third party. However relying on blockchain as a thrid party, it&#x27;s possible to achieve this, and there are implementations [2] out there, but the challenge is throughput. Most of these solutions can only handle kilobytes&#x2F;s of throughput. The computational barrier here is the vast amount of modular exponentiations.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cs.utexas.edu&#x2F;~shmat&#x2F;courses&#x2F;cs395t_fall04&#x2F;pagnia.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cs.utexas.edu&#x2F;~shmat&#x2F;courses&#x2F;cs395t_fall04&#x2F;pagni...</a> [2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;sec-bit&#x2F;zkPoD-node" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;sec-bit&#x2F;zkPoD-node</a>
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reidjs将近 5 年前
I like this approach to incentivize seeding, this could create a boom in torrenting if it works decently well and enough people hop on board. Too bad this is only running on test net, understandably.
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miguelmota将近 5 年前
Web3Torrent FAQ: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.notion.so&#x2F;web3Torrent-FAQ-9f384d9dbadc4828aa81e14fcc360466" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.notion.so&#x2F;web3Torrent-FAQ-9f384d9dbadc4828aa81e1...</a>
lgats将近 5 年前
How long until this is built into a decentralized PopcornTime-like service?
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homakov将近 5 年前
I can routinely download any torrent in the world on top speed... What problem does it solve?<p>Torrents, as a poor choice for the &quot;killer app&quot;, aside, state channels are a curious technology but most traditional implementations [fully pre-collateralized channels] have a design flaw where no one wants to put money to the end user, while happily accepting inward capacity from the senders. Haven&#x27;t looked into this specific implementation, i wonder if it has a fix for this. &quot;Virtual channels&quot; sound relevant here.
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awirth将近 5 年前
Is there a BEP to make this work for native torrents too?<p>Also I don&#x27;t understand the name &quot;Web3torrent&quot;, is it intended to indicate a new version?
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tomphoolery将近 5 年前
&gt; Users can upload files and begin seeding to earn small, incremental, amounts of money from anyone that downloads from them.<p>How do you know that the user uploading the file actually owns the rights to distribute the file? Wouldn&#x27;t this just incentivize those with the infrastructure (e.g., money&#x2F;bandwidth) to take over the market and suddenly get paid for sharing others&#x27; content?<p>The idea of &quot;let&#x27;s combine a distributed filesharing system with a distributed currency&quot; is completely sound, and one that I&#x27;ve worked on in the past. But this is a totally backwards way of approaching the problem. You have no way of actually paying the content creators, just the content hosts. It&#x27;s just more of the same, and at least with Spotify I get some neat analytical tools. But this just seems like it&#x27;s designed to help the people who run topsites, not the people who actually make the content and NEED the money.<p>Thumbs down until you figure out the problem of rights management through your protocol.
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typingmonkey将近 5 年前
Can one state channel be used to pay multiple seeders? Or do I need to create a budget for each seeder I want to interact with?
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random_kris将近 5 年前
Could this be ported to bitcoin lightning ?
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neiman将近 5 年前
Like other people here, I think it&#x27;s technologically interesting. Also, like many others, I don&#x27;t see any great practical use-cases for this right now.<p>However, &quot;if you build it they will come&quot;. I&#x27;m excited to see what will the creative minds of the internet do with this technology once it exists.
radicalturkey将近 5 年前
This is really cool! Will you be using it for other crypto as well?
russdpale将近 5 年前
Im not sure this article understands why torrenting is popular.