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What's the future of Servo?

578 点作者 0xedb将近 5 年前

32 条评论

jgraham将近 5 年前
I&#x27;m not&#x2F;wasn&#x27;t a member of the Servo team, but have collaborated with them, and if you get the opportunity to work with them I cannot recommend it highly enough.<p>They have the kind of deep technical knowledge and ability to solve challenging problems you&#x27;d expect from a research group, coupled with the skills to make pragmatic tradeoffs and fix the complex real world problems needed to ship software. More than that, they are one of the most welcoming and friendly teams I ever worked with. The culture they created allowed them to take inexperienced new contributors and quickly ramp them up to a place where they were confident to solve challenging problems. Working in that environment and seeing what&#x27;s possible has really raised my bar for workplace culture and mentorship.
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bholley将近 5 年前
I led the Stylo project to integrate Servo&#x27;s CSS engine into Firefox as part of project Quantum [1]. I have the utmost respect for the engineers on the Servo team, and am sad to see them go (though I am certain they will have no shortage of opportunities as to what to work on next).<p>Servo had two major roles within Mozilla - as an incubator for novel browser technology we wanted to ship in Firefox, and more recently, as a lighter-weight vehicle for Mixed Reality products. The latter has been the focus for the last three years, and those products now appear to be winding down. But the former was a huge success - both Servo&#x27;s parallel CSS engine and its GPU-based graphics layer are now shipping in Firefox.<p>While it seems unlikely that Mozilla will continue to prototype things in Servo, we&#x27;re still building lots of innovative technology (and writing lots of Rust code) directly in Firefox. A few of the teams have blogged recently about the work they&#x27;re doing [2] [3], and I&#x27;d encourage anyone interested to check it out.<p>The Servo team accomplished a ton and left its ongoing mark on the Web. These changes are tough for everyone within Mozilla, but are not indicative of any change in strategy for Firefox. Gecko is alive and well, and there are no plans to switch to Blink.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bholley.net&#x2F;blog&#x2F;2017&#x2F;stylo.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bholley.net&#x2F;blog&#x2F;2017&#x2F;stylo.html</a> [2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mozilla-spidermonkey.github.io&#x2F;blog&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mozilla-spidermonkey.github.io&#x2F;blog&#x2F;</a> [3] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mozillagfx.wordpress.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;mozillagfx.wordpress.com&#x2F;</a>
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danilocesar将近 5 年前
I remember when Nokia decided to kill meego, or when Canonical stopped pushing DEs (and firing a bunch of people with it). The exactly same reaction happened back then: people tried to save things, push public projects more in the open, move ideas to other companies or create a community repo to sell the idea of an independent project. None of them really lasted or got traction.<p>It&#x27;s sad, but the reality is that the fate of a project with only one major stakeholder is tied to that stakeholder&#x27;s fate.<p>I&#x27;m pretty sure they will all get other jobs, but we have to face the fact that the project itself will probably die.
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EwanToo将近 5 年前
I think a more meaningful link is:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;servo&#x2F;servo&#x2F;discussions&#x2F;27575" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;servo&#x2F;servo&#x2F;discussions&#x2F;27575</a><p>It&#x27;s a very sad situation, I hope Samsung or another organisation steps in to hire the team.
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lykahb将近 5 年前
In a few weeks most of the developers on the Servo team will get another job. The project could be picked up by other people later but only with a significant loss of knowledge and momentum.<p>Now is the critical time for a another company to step in. Microsoft has better alignment with free web than Facebook or Google. This could be a chance for them to get a competitive independent browser again.
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MatekCopatek将近 5 年前
What&#x27;s the current outlook of Servo following recent events at Mozilla? Did any significant contributions previously come from the OSS community or was it more or less just Mozillians?
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guerrilla将近 5 年前
My first post on HN using Servo. GitHub seems to work too. Pretty fast. Build was fast and easy too but huge (6GB including the .git) I sure hope this project surives.
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robotmay将近 5 年前
Are there any existing projects looking to build a new browser based around Servo? Assuming that it&#x27;s partially dead at Mozilla it would be interesting to see alternatives to the current big browsers cropping up that use it.
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MR4D将近 5 年前
I don&#x27;t understand something about many of the comments I&#x27;ve seen on HN regarding Firefox, Edge, Chrome, etc....<p>Why does it matter if there is one source tree for all browsers? [0]<p>Is it really a bad thing if Chromium is the base, and then Google, Microsoft, etc push out forks of it?<p>Isn&#x27;t that what we do in the linux world already with the kernel? Redhat, Ubuntu, Mint, etc all take a stock kernel from the git tree and then tweak it for their uses, yet we don&#x27;t complain about that.<p>[0] - Yes, I know people lost their jobs, and that sucks, especially in this economy. But my question isn&#x27;t about the jobs, it&#x27;s about having multiple browsers and why some people vehemently believe that multiple browsers without shared source code is critical to our future. THAT is what I don&#x27;t understand.
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chronogram将近 5 年前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;SimonSapin&#x2F;status&#x2F;1293231187167784960" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;SimonSapin&#x2F;status&#x2F;1293231187167784960</a><p>Seems like it’s a community project now.
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nwah1将近 5 年前
Their announcement said that Mozilla is killing off a lot of development on &quot;internal tools.&quot; I thought that meant things like Bugzilla or MDN. No reason to slave away on MDN when others have so much resources.<p>But I had no idea they&#x27;d kill something so core to their future browser development. I strongly disagree with this decision. They might as well kill gecko too, if there&#x27;s no exciting future anymore.<p>Samsung had invested in the past, so hopefully they or someone else will pick up where Mozilla left off.<p>I do think that Mozilla should slowly try to reduce the amount of unique processes that they have. Part of what made servo so successful is that they did all the development on GitHub.<p>Mozilla should have a top level corporate policy to transition away from all their nonstandard internal tools. Get rid of Mach, Bugzilla, Mercurial, etc.<p>They should use GitLab or GitHub, switch to cmake, and some standard third party build service, and be done with it. Their productivity would increase, their community contributions would increase, and their overhead would decrease.<p>But they should not have cut their DevTools, and should have actually beefed up the developer-friendliness. Compete with Electron. Compete with PhantomJS. Improve the experience of Progressive Web Apps on mobile.<p>The focus on new products makes sense. I think Lockwise, Monitor, and their VPN service were all good efforts. Firefox Sync should ideally expand more into a whole suite of integrated services stop their zero-knowledge privacy-first architecture. Storage, backups, OwnCloud integration, etc.<p>Maybe they should even acquire OwnCloud or NextCloud.
qwerty456127将近 5 年前
Right at the moment when Firefox have regained reasonable performance, added and polished more things (including the new ecosystem of extensions matured) and became the best browser again, on all the platforms.<p>I&#x27;ve just switched back to it (after using Chrome for years because of Firefox&#x27;s slowness) and feel like I&#x27;m going to use it for quite a long anyway. I just hope somebody is going to keep making vulnerability patches.
dmitryminkovsky将近 5 年前
If Servo is dead, what could possibly be the future of Firefox?<p>I don&#x27;t want to browse the web with a Blink-based browser. Total browser homogeneity is the end of the free and open web. I don&#x27;t want to use a non-free non-open web.<p>Is the web dead to me?
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umanwizard将近 5 年前
The servo team has been (either mostly or entirely, I’m not sure) laid off, so presumably the project is dead.
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tanilama将近 5 年前
There is a push to this project since like 4 days ago...pretty telling itself.
melbourne_mat将近 5 年前
It&#x27;s always been a dumb idea to make yet another rendering engine. For the same reason that Firefox is sliding slowly but surely into obscurity: the web works best in Chrome, like it or not.<p>I&#x27;m sure the team working on it are talented but I can&#x27;t imagine any commercial company picking this up for any reason.
X6S1x6Okd1st将近 5 年前
Seems like a lot of people are conflating Gecko and Servo.<p>Servo is not the engine used in Firefox.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Servo_(software)#Relationship_to_Firefox" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Servo_(software)#Relationship_...</a>
brundolf将近 5 年前
One blocker to picking up Firefox as a community project is that Mozilla still holds all relevant trademarks. So we may need a singular, well-branded, well-communicated fork to rally around. If everyone makes their own fork, all of them will fade off into obscurity.
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masklinn将近 5 年前
Servo being gone is sad, SRT being gone is terrifying.
mpsq将近 5 年前
Everyone seems to be blaming the &quot;bad&quot; (relatively, I personally don&#x27;t believe that) performance of FF on Gecko. But is that the case? Isn&#x27;t it mostly because of many websites relying heavily on JS while V8 is much faster than SpiderMonkey? I have been following Phoronix benchmarks for years and where Chrome shines seems to always be on JS benchmarks.<p>Given that Gecko is probably not the bottleneck, I would consider the decision of halting the project not a bad one. Servo delivered tons of amazing things already, it is a clear success. Maybe Mozilla should consider using V8? After all, losing SpiderMonkey might not be that bad, there is enough &quot;competitors&quot;.
c-smile将近 5 年前
Browser (shall I say the browser?), from &quot;thin client on top of OS&quot; became &quot;web client on top of thin OS that just needed to run the thing&quot;.<p>And indeed, zipped Chromium sources are of 1.4 Gb and Linux kernel is of 0.2 Gb - 7 times less.<p>Volume of features that &quot;we&quot; (or rather &quot;they&quot;) want to see in browsers and so complexity of browsers reached point of no return I think. From now and on only state actors will be able to finance development of another new browser.<p>I do not think that any private pure product company now is able to develop modern browser sustainably. Either we (users) shall pay to the company for it or the company shall sell telemetry, user&#x27;s data, influence user choice, etc. to get money for that from FAANG &amp; Co. And that is exactly what happens now with Mozilla.<p>What to do?<p>The solution could be in drastically limiting the scope of browser. Indeed, 95% of sites and users just need basic HTML&#x2F;CSS&#x2F;JS features. The only thing that needs to be added is what I name as WebVM - virtual machine a la JavaVM or .NET &quot;VM&quot; with DOM and CSSOM exposed in it as primitives. So if you want to add new CSS, HTML feature or to support new script language then you can provide corresponding loadable .class (bytecodes) file.<p>I mean: compact base (bootstrap) implementation + VM&#x2F;runtime to extend this thing. All other features can be developed independently by teams who need them for their users and cases.<p>All those WebGL, WebAsm, rarely used CSS effects and HTML features ... 95% of us do not need them - why do we need to pay the price for these features? If someone will need them - fine, design and load them into WebVM.<p>As an example, I (+ 3more devs) can transform my Sciter (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;sciter.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;sciter.com</a>, 0.02 Gb zipped sources) into such bootstrap browser in 6-9 months. And so can do other teams.<p>Sigh.<p>10 years ago we have thrown the baby out with the bathwater when we disabled ActiveX, Java, etc. Instead we should actually develop WebVM and so to move web tech development out of big companies and Central Comity of the Web.
Ygg2将近 5 年前
Damn, I want to support Servo. Where do I throw my allowance on them?
darksaints将近 5 年前
How long before there is a major commercially-backed fork of Firefox? As a huge Firefox fan, I&#x27;m incredibly dismayed at the priorities expressed in these layoffs, and I know it is gonna bleed through to browser performance and security sooner or later. I don&#x27;t want to stick around and find out the hard way when it happens.
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aleksjess将近 5 年前
Hello Hacker News, OP on GitHub here.<p>I was absolutely gutted to hear about Mozilla&#x27;s &quot;reductions&quot; (I hate such euphemisms), perhaps even worse for the Web is abandoning Servo... Which I wanted to find out whether that&#x27;s the case.
krick将近 5 年前
A follow-up question. Does it affect the future of Rust as well? What about it?
kunfuu将近 5 年前
How hard is it to turn Servo into a project funded by mass small donations?
monadic2将近 5 年前
Welp there goes like 90% of the optimism about the future of the web.
dindresto将近 5 年前
How will Servo be affected by the Mozilla layoffs?
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The_rationalist将近 5 年前
I bet that spidermonkey cost more than Servo and yet manage to be a net negative utility to firefox the product. Servo has improved the state of the art of layout &#x2F; css &#x2F; rendering performance for gecko, even outperforming blink on some cases. Spidermonkey is consistently inferior to v8 and slow down ecmascript adoption.<p>Therefore it would be much wiser for mozilla to switch to v8 like everybody else and to reallocate the money either towards resurrecting servo OR towards improving V8 and making it faster, which here would bring actual value to humans.
mojomark将近 5 年前
Why do software engineers feel the need to name abstract software after tangeable things, conflating search results? E.g., &quot;Servo&quot;, &quot;Containers&quot;, etc.<p>Can we not find a simple naming convention that is less ambiguous and confusing to the rest of the world that uses both software and hardware? E.g. ServoSW, ContainerSW, or stick with names that have no hardware corollary?
The_rationalist将近 5 年前
Here&#x27;s how Servo could have been saved one year ago. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;servo&#x2F;servo&#x2F;issues&#x2F;24026" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;servo&#x2F;servo&#x2F;issues&#x2F;24026</a>
oscargrouch将近 5 年前
I wonder how much of this, has too do with social justice going to far in the harassment of Brendan Eich.<p>I mean, maybe someone with his background in charge would know why its important for Mozilla to keep this kind of projects even if it looks they are not going anywhere, because this is what gives Mozilla meaning in the end.<p>Im not a mozillian, so i might be totally wrong, but maybe this is a case of the MBA&#x27;s taking over and trying to focus into what they have learned to do.. look at the profit margins and think they are spending too much in research projects.<p>There are a lot of examples of other companies losing their engineering culture, starting to think more in terms of cash and profit, and finally vanishing its purpose and meaning.<p>IBM(lost in the 80&#x27;s), Microsoft almost loosing it in the Ballmer era, Sun, and the most proeminent case: Yahoo.<p>Just to make it clear: Tech companies as any other company must have a good financial health and this is very important, but they cannot afford to loose their soul.<p>Once their engineering and innovation culture is gone, they become void and suffer from a slow bleeding til the death.<p>We must face it, our economical systems of incentives, the economical game generally speaking, its broken.<p>And tech and arts are proeminent endeavors that tend to get trojan horsed by this yuppie mentality turning things that once had meaning, into meaningful cash cows that work for the few people that cash out from the corrupted source.<p>(Apparently, it works a little better for industrial-level enterprises).<p>My hope is that, with time, this will become more evident, and research find innovative ways to make a better economical game so that creative, art and engineering culture kind of companies can have a much larger life span.<p>By the way, they had a pretty good leverage on Rust (and Rust was a really risk bet that ended doing great). The fact that they fired the people with this background just shows that they have no clue of what they are really doing.<p>* Edit: just being clear about people with conservative views.. I dont like and even despise what he did politically speaking, but as long as he were a good fit for the job, and never forced his political and social views into the company, i dont agree with the outcome.. and the reason is starting to show up now.. Much more important things are starting to fall out, and in the end even people with progressive views and good engineering background ended fired in the long term. <i>
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