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Birth and Death of Microsoft Bing

322 点作者 domino大约 14 年前

24 条评论

raganwald大约 14 年前
Perhaps a bit OT, but... The post seemed to be riddled with formatting and grammar errors. This rubbed my old-school English sensibilities at first, but then I began to enjoy its rough feel.<p>After all, it's a post about how people who worked tirelessly to bring a product to market were shipping things while the rest of Microsoft slept. The story very clearly describes a dichotomy in Microsoft's culture between process/rules/superficial quality on the one hand and relentlessly shortening the ship/fix cycle on the other.<p>This post is not just about shortened ship/fix cycles, <i>it is itself an example of a shortened write/fix cycle</i>.<p>When that struck me, the style of post suddenly "clicked:" It was as if I was reading an email that was furiously blasted out to Posterous while the author's compiler worked, and thereafter there was no time for extensive editing and proofing by a circle of reviewers. What mattered was to get the idea out and to start the conversation, editing and polish would follow later.<p>Great stuff!
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latch大约 14 年前
The OP seems to attribute the "failure" of bing to common problems associated with Microsoft (in specific) and large companies (in general). With a specific point that it all started wonderfully, then got corporatized. I'm happy believing that this was the main problem.<p>But...as an end user i don't think Bing was/is ever as as close to Google as the OP seems to think.
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enjo大约 14 年前
This is tangential, but somehow related:<p>My level of frustration Redmond has reached epic levels. My company spends thousands of dollars a week managing advertising campaigns on Adcenter. They have an API which has been nothing but issues, but given the breadth of our advertising base it's absolutely necessary that we use it.<p>Today we have entered day number FIVE of an outage in which the API (at least one critical portion of it) simply errors out no matter what call you make. So for five days we've been unable to pause campaigns, change bid prices, or otherwise do anything to effectively manage our campaigns.<p>It's nuts. This is the second major outage in the last couple of weeks. The part that KILLS me is that nobody in Redmond seems to give a damn. They announced that they had a problem two days after I brought it to their attention. They are apparently working on some sort of fix that may or may not be pushed sometime in the last three days.<p>Meanwhile we are absolutely blowing through cash because of the things that we can't adjust. We're tens of thousands of keywords spread out over more than a thousand campaigns. We don't employ anybody to manage these by hand...
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mattmanser大约 14 年前
The whole article seems to be back to front.<p>As far as I knew Live search was essentially failing then they made it Bing and it's started to succeed.<p>Am I missing something here or what?<p>I'm no expert on the history but it seems to me that the opposite of what the author is saying actually happened!
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Matt_Cutts大约 14 年前
"They [Bing] had weekly release cycles - faster than Google back then"<p>Hmm. I'm gonna have to disagree with that part. :)
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athom大约 14 年前
"The report of my death was an exaggeration." -- Mark Twain<p>I was having a look at Terabyte drives in Best Buy yesterday, and while wondering how well a model might work with Linux, I realized, now the display computers actually have internet capability, I <i>should</i> be able to look it up right there in the store! So, I wander over to a convenient laptop, kick it out of screensaver mode, start up the browser, and plug in the product name. Only after I hit the search button did I notice WHAT service I was using. Added bonus: Google was NOT an option.<p>I'll believe that Bing is dead when it isn't the default search engine in the default browser on the default operating system at the default computer store.
jdp23大约 14 年前
Interesting perspectives. I was there in 2006-2007 when they made the decision to throw resources at the problem and challenge Google head-on in algorithmic search. The strategy at the time was to become #2 in a duopoly by investing at a level that Yahoo! couldn't compete with, and focus on the most valuable searches (travel, shopping, etc.), and leverage Microsoft Research a lot more.<p>From an abstract business perspective it's worked remarkably well. But if so many motivated and talented people are leaving, then there's something fundamentally flawed. And there were a lot of other much-less-expensive approaches they could have taken instead (or in addition, if they wanted to shoot for the moon) that would have also created a lot more opportunities for growth and excitement for younger engineers in particular. Ah well.
hanifvirani大约 14 年前
Strange. To me, as an outsider, it looks like Bing has just started to get good enough to be considered as a threat to Google. Of course, they have a <i>long long</i> way to go. But it appears as a rapidly emerging product rather than a dying product.
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scorpion032大约 14 年前
The biggest problem that comes in the way is the condescending attitude of the "grown ups". It is very important for the "management" to realize that they are actually only facilitating what is "happening" and they should let the system handle itself and get out of the way than get into and disturb the existing norm.
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rufugee大约 14 年前
<i>Bing was extremely lavish in compensation, making offers to the best hackers for $90K/year when the adjacent teams were making $75K/year offers.</i><p>This is what really stood out to me. I'm in tech management these days...I pay my good developers close to $90K, and I'm no Google or Microsoft. What's wrong with this picture? Bing was created what...four years ago? Is this really a realistic salary for the best hackers?
fferen大约 14 年前
For all the people saying X search engine is better, here's a tool to compare Google and Bing (and Yahoo) results without bias. It simply shows you three columns of results, you click on the one with the best results, and it reveals which ones came from which search engines.<p><a href="http://blindsearch.fejus.com/" rel="nofollow">http://blindsearch.fejus.com/</a><p>Note: I am not affiliated with this site in any way.
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InclinedPlane大约 14 年前
I don't know that Bing has "failed" yet, but I highly doubt it'll be anything other than one amongst many in the pack in 5 years.<p>Microsoft has always been good at the pivotal turnaround. Recognizing when a key moment was on the wind, mustering together a tremendous effort, making a good number of smart decisions and putting out a solid anchor product that (re)cements their position in the industry and reinvigorates the brand in doing so. Windows 95 and Windows 7 are perfect examples. IE4 (yes really), Bing, and Windows Phone 7 are also good examples. One of the big problems with Microsoft is that its organization and its culture are extremely tied to the traditional 3-ish year ship cycle. A hugely successful diving catch every other ship cycle or so is rapidly becoming less and less feasible as a means to hang on to or acquire a market. Microsoft does not seem to get the web at a fundamental level, it doesn't seem to have the capacity to release software at a pace of yearly, monthly, or continuously.<p>And that will ultimately be the undoing of Bing and the Windows Phone. The only way MS knows how to crank out releases faster is the deathmarch, and that is a certain route to doom.<p>Worse yet, since Gates left MS has no real technical or managerial leadership, it's bureaucracy all the way up and down. This has been affecting the culture at Microsoft little by little, also partly coupled to the stock price having plateaued. More and more talented devs are finding that MS lacks the excitement and the reward of cutting edge development, so they are moving elsewhere. Also, without that talent around fewer good projects are pushed forward, fewer projects succeed, people become less satisfied with their jobs, etc. (think about the movie "It's a Wonderful Life" only translate the bad stuff, on a corporate level, to hundreds and then thousands of George Bailey's going away). This makes the environment that much less rewarding for everyone else who remains, so yet more people leave. And slowly but surely the creep of a more rigid and bureaucratic corporate culture and organization fills in the gaps left by the people who had the most clout in the company, causing yet more and more talent to evaporate away.<p>It's a self-reinforcing cycle that will lead to the rapid diminution of the company and its prospects over time and the examples the article provides of the process as it happened at Bing have played out throughout the company. Nobody young with high prospects seriously considers Microsoft as a destination anymore, and increasingly the older devs are either retiring on their massive earnings from the glory days or they're just looking for somewhere else to be that's a better use of their time and talent.<p>MS continues to make a crap-ton of money from its core products, but it will be institutionally ham-strung in responding to the threats that will steal away that revenue (such as mobile-heritage operating systems). Because those threats will grow at a rate MS is incapable of competing with.
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jeremydavid大约 14 年前
Just thought I'd let you know your text rendered <i>very</i> small on my browser, and the light grey quotes were almost unreadable.
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tocomment大约 14 年前
Bing is dead?
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wightnoise大约 14 年前
The only value I ever had for Bing was their cashback shopping engine, and they've gotten rid of that.<p>Birth and Death of Jellyfish.com<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jellyfish.com" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jellyfish.com</a>
RyanMcGreal大约 14 年前
&#62; They totally din't see Google as a threat, till it had a huge market cap. (Don't be evil, was a joke?)<p>Does having a huge market cap automatically make a company evil?
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TheCondor大约 14 年前
A buddy and I were drinking months back, and for whatever reason (most likely several beers was the reason) he misinterpreted the Bing and Facebook arrangement that was made for "Facebook is buying Bing."<p>Completely un-Microsoft, I can't see it happening but if it did.. Damn that could make things interesting.<p>Bing is interesting, it's a great attempt. The problem is Microsoft, so long as they're running it and setting the "standard" for it, it's going to be a failure. It's not going to knock Google off their perch. It's just not. And anything less than that will be a failure. Cut that team and product free, hand it over to like a facebook? IBM went through some similar stuff, MS should be spinning stuff out, if their current phone effort fails again to live up to their hype, they should just cut that group free too, let them go and be successful. that stuff creates new industries which in turn create new opportunities for everybody, including MS. Let Bing or Bing + FB cultivate an army of guys that want to get rich and can control their own destiny, the output will be far more interesting
arihant大约 14 年前
But what if Bing uses Microsoft's Facebook ties to bring social to search? Isn't that the root of "Google is scared by social" thing that's going on?<p>A lot of times when things seem to be dead, they are on the edge of killing everything else.
rjhackin大约 14 年前
I am not sure about the death of Bing, Bing has momentum and they should take it forward and not lose ground. Competition is important to bring the best out of technology.
rebelidealist大约 14 年前
Would you consider likealittle.com a startup?<p>The definition of a startup is company with a limited operating history and a company is an organization aimed at making profits.
tedsbardella大约 14 年前
The web site he is promoting is very creepy.
rorrr大约 14 年前
&#62; <i>Bing was extremely lavish in compensation, making offers to the best hackers for $90K/year</i><p>Is this a joke?
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franklindholm大约 14 年前
Is this written in English?
dvfer大约 14 年前
Bing is not really providing anything more than google's service. It only shows "big company's" routine of trying to drive others out of business. Death for Bing.
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