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We need a GitHub of Science

246 点作者 marciovm123大约 14 年前

19 条评论

Groxx大约 14 年前
&#62;<i>- GitHub's success is not just about openness, but also a prestige economy that rewards valuable content producers with credit and attention</i><p>I don't think I can agree with that. GitHub's success, IMO, seems to be based almost <i>entirely</i> on its openness. It has turned contributing to open source software into a drop-dead easy task, which would never be found nor contributed to if they weren't open. And they <i>keep making it easier</i>. I've fixed a number of things with machines which don't have Git installed, simply because they have their on-site editor.<p>Imagine if GitHub were behind a paywall. Do you think it would still be the success it is today? And, I may be weird, but I very rarely look at the names associated with commit histories. The code should speak for itself.<p>The rest of it sounds about right, scientific publishing as a whole is massively backwards compared to GitHub, if you're looking at it from an "Open" perspective. But I think that a lot of that is that the <i>researchers</i> tend to be insular compared to the <i>implementers</i> (businesses guarding their IP aside - they're not really GitHub's target audience anyway). GitHub isn't used exclusively for comp-sci researchers to post their findings with code, it's more for people <i>doing</i> things with ideas others have contributed to.<p>There are experiments on GitHub, absolutely. I have a few myself. But the main thing that GitHub has done is to make <i>final products</i> easy to find, modify, and contribute to. I have significant doubts that it would fit a research workflow smoothly, without becoming something else entirely.
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guygurari大约 14 年前
I'm a Ph.D. student working in theoretical high-energy physics. In this field we don't rely on peer-reviewed journals. Instead, when a researchers wants to "publish" a paper she uploads it to the arXiv, and the paper appears on the site within a day or two. The arXiv is open in the sense that almost anyone can publish there [1]. Researchers in the field catch up on new research by scanning the arXiv daily for interesting papers. No one I know reads peer-reviewed journals. I know that many papers are also published in journals, but I believe this is a formality that has more to do with obtaining grants and such than with actual communication within the community. As far as I know there's no reason to publish in a journal before you become a professor.<p>The result is similar to the GitHub situation in many ways. Because there are no barriers to publishing, everyone makes up their own mind about which papers are interesting. If your work is relevant, others will build on it and cite you. They will discuss it in their group meeting, and so on. A scientist's reputation is then directly related to the quality of their work, as judged by the community, with no artificial barriers. This means that a self-respecting scientist would not publish a sub-par paper even though it's technicality possible to do so, because that would hurt her reputation.<p>So it seems to me that the situation in high-energy physics is close to ideal, with respect to ease of publishing and the social aspect of reputation. Having said that, there are certainly aspects of GitHub that I would love to see adopted.<p>For instance, when several researchers are writing a paper, generally no version control system is employed. Instead, at any point in time the draft is "locked" by one of the collaborators, and only that person can change it. Beyond the obvious inefficiency of this method, note that it is also difficult to track what changes were made in each lock cycle. I use diff for this purpose, but in my experience many scientists in the field aren't aware of such tools. So something that could really help is a simple way to collaborate on papers, just a basic source control system. Also, it must be possible to work on the paper in private within the collaboration, and only publish the end result.<p>[1] The few barriers that exist are in place to keep out the crackpots, who reduce the signal-to-noise ratio and in that sense resemble spammers.
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mechanical_fish大约 14 年前
I'm a former biophysics postdoc myself. Now I work for an open-source software company.<p>This post strikes me as charmingly naive. You have to love this guy. And yet any essay that discusses the incentive structure of science but doesn't use the word "grant" until the last sentence is beating around the bush. Follow the money, my friends.<p>The publications are a side issue. To the extent that your count of top-tier publications matters when trying to get an academic job, it's because it's correlated with your ability to bring in money. (Money comes from peer review too, and what your peers want to read about is also what they want to fund.) What the hiring committees really want is grants. Grant money pays for labs and salaries. It pays for grad students and postdocs. And grant money literally buys prestige: Big projects come from big grants, and big grants require strong track records and a bunch of preliminary data, which in turn comes from smaller grants, or from the shared equipment that your neighbor bought with <i>her</i> grants.<p>The fact that there aren't that many top-tier peer-reviewed journals is a side effect of the limited number of top scientists, and the number of scientists is limited by available resources, not by lack of knowledge or connections or education. I could literally pick up the phone and reach a dozen Ivy-educated postdocs who would be full-time scientists if they could afford it.<p>Why can you find so much great software on Github? There are lots of reasons, but a fundamental one is: Moore's Law. Computer hardware has become so dirt cheap that you can be a programmer in your spare time. You can literally be a twelve-year-old kid with a $200 cast-off computer and yet do top-notch software work. If computers cost millions of dollars each, like they did in 1963, we wouldn't have Github. We'd have the drawer of a desk on the ninth floor of Tech Square. (After all, in the old days half the AI researchers in the world lived within a few miles of that drawer, and the others were just a phone call away.) That's how most advanced science works today: There's no need for more publishing infrastructure for scientific technique, because the available methods of getting the word out -- top journals, second-tier journals, email, the phone, bumping into people in the hallway at conferences -- scale well enough to meet the limited demand. Because just having the recipe for your very own scanning multiphoton microscope doesn't do you much good: You need a $150,000 laser, and a $200,000 microscope, and tens of thousands of dollars in lenses and filters and dyes, and a couple of trained optics experts to maintain the thing, and that's before you even have something to photograph.<p>I wish there were a magical way to turn everyone's suburban basement into a cancer research lab, the way Github has turned everyone's couch into a potential CS research lab, but there's no magic bullet. A few technologies, like DNA sequencing, are sufficiently generic, useful, and automatable to be amenable to Moore's-Law-based solutions, so we probably will soon be able to (e.g.) drop leaves into the hopper of a $1000 box and get a readout of the tree's genetics. But something like cancer research is never going to be cheap. To study cancer you must first have a creature that has cancer. Mice are as cheap as those get, and mice <i>are not cheap</i>, especially if you know what the word <i>mycoplasma</i> means.
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sunir大约 14 年前
My goal for <a href="http://bibdex.com" rel="nofollow">http://bibdex.com</a> is to be this. I based the software on a wiki (original name was Bibwiki). The idea was to build lit reviews on topics that you could reuse and share with colleagues privately or publicly with the world.<p>I realized after starting that scientific communication is more complex, or at least it tries to be for various reasons. I could use help learning what people want from such a system.<p>I am keen on feedback or insights to drive my development. Please, if you are interested, you can reach me at sunir at bibdex com.
melling大约 14 年前
Perhaps not at the academic level, at least not initially, but drawing more people into science by making it easier to ask questions and get answers couldn't hurt. <a href="http://area51.stackexchange.com/categories/7/science" rel="nofollow">http://area51.stackexchange.com/categories/7/science</a><p>Someday there might be 1,000,000 well-defined science/math questions, along with great answers.
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mariuskempe大约 14 年前
I agree (<a href="http://www.quora.com/What-online-tools-do-scientists-wish-existed-to-facilitate-their-work/answer/Marius-Kempe" rel="nofollow">http://www.quora.com/What-online-tools-do-scientists-wish-ex...</a>). Why don't we just start using GitHub itself to do this and go from there? The pain points will suggest ways that a real science-focused github could improve on GitHub itself.
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countersignaler大约 14 年前
<a href="http://science.io" rel="nofollow">http://science.io</a> was featured on HN recently. Not github, but at least a place to discuss and sift research.
emilepetrone大约 14 年前
I tried to start a science network a few years ago, knowble.net, and I know this problem well. The main roadblock we faced was the "publish or perish" mentality. Luckily this mindset seems to be shifting &#38; the idea of a 'GitHub of Science' is very powerful. Much more than a Science LinkedIn, which is what Knowble was.<p>The main unanswered questions for this idea are 1) Funding &#38; 2) Maintenance. Knowble was a for-profit venture, but should have been a non-profit organization. So where can you/someone get the funding to build &#38; maintain the site?<p>If you need a python hacker to help out - my email is emile.petrone (at) gmail.com
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mbreese大约 14 年前
One issue I see is what branch of science are we talking about? Physics largely seems to have this figured out via arXiv.org, but funding for molecular / biology / medical research is heavily dependent upon publication record. I'm not sure about Computer Science. But my point is when one says "Science" needs X or Y for "Science", no one is speaking the same language.<p>These comments are enough evidence of this. Some have already mentioned arXiv.org, and others Science.io which seems to be specifically targeted at CS. When you add medical research, the needs for these branches is <i>vastly</i> different.
erikpukinskis大约 14 年前
Good ideas, but I disagree that you need a Bill Gates to make it happen.<p>The way this will happen is a grad student hacker who is avoiding working on his thesis will start coding it, and then create a kickstarter asking for support to spend the summer working on it. If she's a credible engineer, she'll get the support easily, and every subsequent kickstarter grant will also be fulfilled and it'll get built.<p>If you build it (right) they will come.
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thisrod大约 14 年前
The programs on Github were written by amateurs. Professionals can do better - compare Python, PHP and Gnuplot to Mozilla, Scheme, Haskell, Plan 9 and Mathematica. But evidently people can keep their day jobs and still write good programs.<p>Science is different. The amateurs are called cranks, and a small community of professionals does the good stuff. (There are exceptions, but few.) The basic issue is who will pay their living expenses, and buy the million dollar machines that they work on.<p>These days, almost all research money is spent by governments. They spend most of it rewarding people for publishing in prestigious journals. Scientists will keep packaging their research that way until someone starts buying it in a different package.
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figital大约 14 年前
We also need a GitHub of government / legislation.
serichsen大约 14 年前
The most pressing problem of our modern information society is the abundance of crap.<p>The service peer-review provides is the filtering of crap, so that not everyone has to do that by himself. This makes science possible, as not everyone can be a master of all trades.<p>Publication without review is called "journalism".<p>As a side note, I believe that Elsevier has acquired an extreme market dominance in the scientific publishing sector and is abusing it in alarming ways.
juretriglav大约 14 年前
Yes we do. Not just a replica of it with different content though, but a separate product tailored to the needs (and wishes) of science, sharing only some of the core ideas of GitHub. Sometimes I wonder if I should welcome the surfacing of ideas that have a large overlap with my own, or be anxious knowing that my lead has possibly been somewhat reduced.
gsiener大约 14 年前
I just met the brains behind Opani (<a href="http://opani.com" rel="nofollow">http://opani.com</a>) last night and they are a huge step in this direction.
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VladRussian大约 14 年前
arXiv.org?
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diamondhead大约 14 年前
I think we need a github of any kind of information.
ignifero大约 14 年前
Do you think something like <a href="http://pubcentral.net" rel="nofollow">http://pubcentral.net</a> could be useful in that direction?
wicknicks大约 14 年前
The biggest problem with CS academicians have been in their misinterpretation of computers. Its a very different field from traditional sciences like Physics, Chemistry etc.. In traditional sciences, we study the world, understand it and express those ideas formally. With computers, its upto one's imagination what they can do with it. We just get so lost in the depths of formalism, that we forget that hacking and exploration are what can break boundaries and enable people to make computers do what they could not.<p>Funnily, academia harbours the most brilliant minds of CS, and barely produces usable software. Its people who identify problems, and provide software/ideas who actually get things moving. Github/Blogosphere etc allow such solutions to emerge more efficiently by allowing a lot of people to look at such solutions. In academia, a publication is taken as a end point for problem solving. There are no incentives to build real software or real systems.<p>If computer science wants to make a difference, it must move away from its publish or perish culture.
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