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Scrollbar Blindness

877 点作者 _maye超过 4 年前

69 条评论

supernova87a超过 4 年前
I have to pile onto the criticism of the hidden scroll bars, and other similar features (like the hidden buttons of PDF viewers now, such as in Chrome). Discoverability is a problem.<p>For anyone (cough, elderly parents) who aren&#x27;t adept at discovering hidden features, these things can be utterly mind-boggling and frustrating. Even I was stumped for a good minute the first time trying to print&#x2F;save&#x2F;download a PDF when that &quot;feature&quot; came out.<p>I don&#x27;t really need the small sliver of menu space in PDF view to be reclaimed -- and for what, a &quot;clean&quot; look? Those are real and important functions I desire. What I actually need is for news and blog sites to stop covering 1&#x2F;4 of their vertical window space with hovering frames, ads, and banners asking me to subscribe. Which, by the way, subsequently don&#x27;t properly calculate into that now hidden scroll bar&#x27;s movement and cause you to overshoot the displayable area when paging down. End rant.
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dgellow超过 4 年前
Another one of such thing: please try to scroll on your site using a mouse wheel from time to time, even if you&#x27;re normally using a touchpad (from your laptop or an external one)!<p>Lot of fancy homepage with scroll animations are awful on anything that isn&#x27;t scrolling as smoothly as a MacBookPro touchpad.<p>Example: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.apple.com&#x2F;ipad-pro&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.apple.com&#x2F;ipad-pro&#x2F;</a> is horrible to use on anything that isn&#x27;t a mobile device or a Mac.
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m4tthumphrey超过 4 年前
I loathe the fact that scrollbars are now hidden. I&#x27;m constantly looking for it to either<p>a) find out how big the page is b) scroll more precisely<p>I don&#x27;t even understand why they would remove them? Who ever complained of a scroll bar?
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TedDoesntTalk超过 4 年前
&gt; Alternatively, you can set the scrollbars to be visible at all times by setting System Preferences -&gt; General -&gt; Show scroll bars to Always.<p>Hidden scrollbars recently caused me an extra day of work. I was documenting all options in hundreds of html select boxes (dropdowns) on a legacy product being rewritten.<p>Many of these dropdowns were vertically scrollable, but macOS using Chrome did not display a scrollbar. I had no idea they were scrollable and missed many options in my documenta3.<p>I could not look at the html for it as it was minimized and not easily searchable.
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chrismorgan超过 4 年前
Strongly related: viewport units (vw, vh, vmin, vmax) are fundamentally and irreconcilably broken if your document has scrollbars, because they include the size of document scrollbars, so that 100vw is equal to 100% + 17px if you have a 17px wide scrollbar there (the most likely value on Windows), so now all of a sudden you have a horizontal scrollbar too. Or your nicely calculated layout that thought that 33vw + 33vw + 33vw &lt; 100% is now wrong and wrapping the third block on screens less than 1700px wide. There used to be a weird way of opting out of scrollbar inclusion (I think it involved `overflow: scroll` and something else on the root element, I think, but I don’t remember the exact incantation), but Firefox was the only browser that implemented it, and no one else wanted to (they said “no one wants this”—untrue, I say—“and it’s weird and inconsistent”—which <i>was</i> true).<p>We need a new set of units that excludes document scrollbars. Or a constant like env(scrollbar-width) that represents the scrollbar width so that you can subtract it yourself, which would be useful in a few other places as well (instead I’ve done the likes of `var(--scrollbar-width, 20px)` and calculate and define --scrollbar-width on the root element in JavaScript).
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crizzlenizzle超过 4 年前
I’ve encountered this last year when I took over a project with a dev staff solely using Chrome on macOS.<p>The thing was: We catered for gamers which means Chrome or Firefox on Windows was the norm. We got a lot of bug reports like “hideous scrollbars in shop item description” or “hideous scrollbars in menu” where the devs were puzzled about the bug reports.
matsemann超过 4 年前
Yes! Far too many developers now only check that the page renders nicely on Chrome on their expensive macbook. While most of their users may be having a less than stellar screen and don&#x27;t see the contrasts, run old hardware and a different OS+browser combo.
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chias超过 4 年前
I need to use a MacBook as my work machine (for a little over three years now), and generally have a strong dislike of the platform. It&#x27;s just similar enough to Linux to lull me into believing that I kinda know what I&#x27;m doing, but just different enough to make me feel incompetent whenever I try to actually do anything nontrivial.<p><pre><code> System Preferences -&gt; General -&gt; Show scroll bars to Always. </code></pre> I stumbled across this little gem about a year ago, and has been one of the bigger quality-of-life improvements I&#x27;ve found on this machine.
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Santosh83超过 4 年前
Increasingly many sites are opting for overlay scrollbars that are exceedingly difficult to actually use. It&#x27;s almost as if they don&#x27;t want you to use the scrollbar yet provide one for compliance. They are often very thin (just a few pixels) and coloured dark gray upon black background and won&#x27;t expand to a bigger size until you successfully squint and hunt it down and precisely position the pointer over it.
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marmshallow超过 4 年前
While folks are rightfully bashing macOS’s hidden scroll bars, I would like to advertise an iOS feature that is actually pro-scroll bar. As of iOS 13, you can grab the scroll bar to scroll at hyper speed rather than repeatedly flicking the screen. Not sure if there’s a proper name for this feature but it’s explained here <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.idownloadblog.com&#x2F;2019&#x2F;08&#x2F;05&#x2F;scroll-faster-iphone-ipad-tutorial&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.idownloadblog.com&#x2F;2019&#x2F;08&#x2F;05&#x2F;scroll-faster-iphon...</a>
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codingdave超过 4 年前
&gt; If you are a front-end developer that uses macOS, I kindly ask you to dedicate a little more attention to how the websites you create behave on platforms other than your own.<p>I&#x27;d take that one step farther - no matter what platform you code on, test your UX on all the others.
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apocalyptic0n3超过 4 年前
&gt; Alternatively, you can set the scrollbars to be visible at all times by setting System Preferences -&gt; General -&gt; Show scroll bars to Always.<p>One of the best things I think I&#x27;ve done for quality purposes is require all developers, QA team members, and project managers have scrollbars turned on at all times. It&#x27;s sent the number of sites with hidden overflow in production down to near-zero for us. Someone, somewhere down the line will end up seeing that your page is 300px wider than the viewport before it hits production. And because that usually indicates other problems (often related to accessibility), it usually has a domino effect of discovering other issues that need to be fixed.<p>It has definitely made a marked improvement to the quality of our work, and I recommend everyone require their teams using Macs to require scrollbars be set to &quot;Always&quot;
jakub_g超过 4 年前
If you read between the lines, you should understand that the root cause of issue is the macOS developer monoculture.<p>All you need is <i>one</i> Windows or Linux-based developer in your team to catch those kind of issues. But so many dev teams are macOS-only those days, whereas, apart from US and 2-3 other rich countries, 80%+ or even more of actual desktop users are Windows-based.<p>(There are many other problems with macOS monoculture, for example, the spread of ultrathin fonts that look nice and crisp on retina macbook but result in very low contrast rendering on Windows).<p>US-based devs: outside of your country (that is, &gt;95% of humanity), most people <i>do not</i> have a Mac, an iPhone, nor use MM&#x2F;DD&#x2F;YYYY dates and 12-hour clock.
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tomconnors超过 4 年前
I&#x27;ve been guilty of this. Normally I like to blame CSS for all of my personal failures, but I think the definition of &quot;overflow&quot; is intuitive enough. I was hesitant to turn on visible scrollbars system-wide because I thought it might be ugly. I did and it&#x27;s not, so I second the author&#x27;s suggestion to do that.
dlevine超过 4 年前
I think part of the problem is that this &quot;feature&quot; masks the need to properly understand scroll behavior (at least if you only use platforms that auto-hide scrollbars).<p>Recently, we were doing a bug safari for a new product feature that was about to launch. I noticed that an element had a scrollbar when it shouldn&#x27;t, and filed a bug. One of the developers picked it up, and first said &quot;not a bug. I don&#x27;t see it on my computer.&quot; I showed him the bug on my machine, and he looked at it for a few minutes before saying &quot;I don&#x27;t know how to fix it.&quot; I pointed out that the overflow-x was set to &quot;scroll&quot; in the CSS for that component, and he could just set it to &quot;auto&quot; to fix the behavior (since the scrollbar should never show up in normal usage of that feature). It turns out that he didn&#x27;t even know &quot;auto&quot; existed.
CarbyAu超过 4 年前
Hidden features extends to many things.<p>On NTFS you can hide an arbitrarily large file in the &quot;Alternate datastream&quot; of any file. Explorer doesn&#x27;t show you alternate datastreams and certainly doesn&#x27;t show you they are possible.<p>You can use VLC to play a bluray from what appears to be a 1kb text file in Explorer.<p>If you have that on a USB stick, the properties of the USB stick will reflect the capacity loss of the bluray image. But Explorer won&#x27;t show you why or which file has it...<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.foldersecurityviewer.com&#x2F;ntfs-alternate-data-streams-the-good-and-the-bad&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.foldersecurityviewer.com&#x2F;ntfs-alternate-data-st...</a>
liminal超过 4 年前
Hidden scrollbars are just terrible UX all round for so many reasons:<p>- Discoverability: You don&#x27;t even know if a container is scrollable at all until you try.<p>- Orientation: You don&#x27;t know where you are in a document until you scroll to make the bar appear, and then you have to notice it before it disappears<p>- Usability: It&#x27;s much harder to target the scroll thumb to drag it. To find it you need to again scroll first, then notice it, then target it with the mouse, all under time pressure before it disappears.<p>If you&#x27;re on MacOS, do yourself (and your users) a favor and set them to always show.
Aardwolf超过 4 年前
&quot;introduced an enhanced scrollbar behavior that made scrollbars hidden by default&quot;<p>That&#x27;s not enhanced at all, it&#x27;s horrible, and scrollbars should be more contrastful and bigger again
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ZeWaren超过 4 年前
I use an old IBM laptop with only a pointing stick (the red nipple in the middle of the keyboard).<p>I don&#x27;t mind having to move my mouse to the scrollbar and drag it to scroll documents or webpages (when I can&#x27;t use the keyboard for that already).<p>This was fine until a few years ago when scrollbars starting to hide or become super thin. I should not have to concentrate to be able to target scrollbars with my cursor.<p>If you&#x27;re working on UX&#x2F;UI design, please remember that not everyone has or uses a scrollwheel on their mice.
l0b0超过 4 年前
While on the subject of people creating user-hostile experiences, try disabling &quot;Allow pages to choose their own fonts, instead of your selections above&quot; in Firefox. Now instead of a different set of fonts for <i>every single website</i> because of some misguided form-over-content design wankery I can read things with one less distraction.
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dusted超过 4 年前
Hiding scrollbars is one of the worse ux antipatterns.. it makes it difficult to see IF there is more content and which part can be scrolled (if any)
KayL超过 4 年前
A lot of developers I worked with only using their MacBook &amp; iPhone to do tests. Many sites do not fully responsive also. For example, the github.com only support 1280px width and above. Below that, padding &amp; buttons rendered incorrectly.<p>And I think this is a trend in the open-source that developers reject Windows patches, or never really try to fix the bugs.<p>Now a lot of tools are only designed for MacOS first. Linux is extra because it&#x27;s easy to migrate. For example, Facebook Watchman. It&#x27;s about 5 years but still unstable for Windows I think.<p>And many web tools, even Android development, I found it&#x27;s no errors in MacOS but have to fix the config or do extra yourself to get it to work properly.
zeveb超过 4 年前
&gt; In 2011, Apple released Mac OS X Lion which introduced an enhanced scrollbar behavior that made scrollbars hidden by default.<p>I don&#x27;t think hiding scrollbars can really be termed an enhancement; &#x27;mistake&#x27; at best or &#x27;user-hostile behavior&#x27; at worst seem more appropriate.<p>The original Macintosh GUI succeeded so well because it made it so easy to see what was possible. It laid an awful lot of stuff out right there on the screen in front of the user, and what was hidden was easy to get at. They spent a ton of time testing an improving usability. Modern macOS, OTOH, just doesn&#x27;t feel right anymore; I suspect it is designed to look good, not to be usable.
wtallis超过 4 年前
I like how this page also has four levels of scrollbars, and the title has two. It&#x27;s an interesting sort of border effect.
brundolf超过 4 年前
I noticed this a few years ago on a project I was working on, and ever since I&#x27;ve always enabled scroll bars on my work laptops.<p>More recently, a few weeks ago we had a bug in our app that was caused by an India time zone. Our company is fully U.S.-based so nobody noticed. Since then I&#x27;ve kept my computer in the India time zone so that time zone issues are readily apparent. I&#x27;ve already caught another one since then.<p>There&#x27;s a more general principle here of &quot;user empathy&quot;: configuring your environment so that you&#x27;re in the same boat as your users.
chrismorgan超过 4 年前
I have noticed this too. This page itself immediately distressed me with its deliberate overdone use of `overflow: scroll`, so much so that I honestly almost left it without reading, which seems a little weird when I reflect on it, but… ugh, multiple useless scrollbars. I think this must be what people mean when they describe something “triggering” them.<p>I think there are two parts to the problem: ① a popular developer platform using overlay scrollbars; and ② the fact that `overflow: scroll` <i>sounds like</i> what people want, when it’s actually not (as you say, they wanted `overflow: auto`). If I could rewrite the history of just this one property, I’d rename `scroll` to `always-show-scrollbar` or `show-scrollbar-even-if-insufficient-content-to-scroll` or similar. Or maybe split `overflow` in two and use `scrollbar-show: always;`.<p>Hmm. I wonder if we <i>could</i> convince browser makers to kill off `overflow: scroll`, making it equivalent to `overflow: auto` due to rampant abuse (there’s precedent for this sort of thing), and replace it with a new, more clearly-named property `scrollbar-show: always`. (And `scrollbar-{x,y,inline,block}-show` to go with it.) Maybe `always` wouldn’t be quite the right keyword, given that it wouldn’t be affecting the behaviour of platforms with overlay scrollbars. But this actually sounds both reasonable and feasible to me, given that `overflow: scroll` is subject to rampant abuse due to misunderstanding and was basically only a tiny quality of life thing for certain corner cases in layouts anyway.
umvi超过 4 年前
Wow, that&#x27;s pretty bad. I&#x27;m guessing the front end developers of those sites just do everything on a Mac and never check how the site looks on Windows or Linux.
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nprz超过 4 年前
The reason `overflow: scroll` is a better default is the need to account for every screen size or possible dynamic content. If overflow is set to `hidden` or worse `visible` your UI is going to break on some screen sizes. So basically you need to decide if you want extra scroll bars for some screens, or broken UI when a user shrinks the browser. It&#x27;s very time consuming to get everything right on every screen size on every browser on every OS.
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spectramax超过 4 年前
Designers don’t get it. What do they teach in design schools these days? Genuine question. I hope stuff like this is brought up? How do you even become a UI designer?
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markus_zhang超过 4 年前
On many Mobile Apps I also found that the scroll bar is just a small dot and it only appears when I do scroll a bit, so it&#x27;s very difficult to see how much is left to read. This is particularly annoying because I have to scroll down to estimate how much is left and then scroll up back to where I was.<p>I have on idea what school of thought has brought forth the no-UI UI but I absolutely think they are idiots.
phpdave11超过 4 年前
I like how the title of the article has a hidden scroll bar (reading on iPhone).
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dghughes超过 4 年前
Ooo those hidden&#x2F;slim scrollbars are annoying. It&#x27;s as bad as an auto-hiding taskbar.<p>When I first saw it the first thing I did was to find a way to get rid of it. In Windows it&#x27;s: Settings &gt; Ease of Access &gt; &quot;Automatically hide scroll bars in Windows&quot; &gt; Off
simonebrunozzi超过 4 年前
Great read, and nice examples to show how important the issue is (at least, relative to web design).<p>This just reminds me of how lovely it would be to have complete interoperability between every browser, every OS, mobile or desktop... And how unlikely it is to happen in the near future.
pwinnski超过 4 年前
I&#x27;m on MacOS and have `Show school bars: Always` set, but I still wish the scroll bars were slightly wider.<p>They&#x27;re undoing much of what Ive did to MacOS, it&#x27;s time to include making scroll bars as big and useful as they used to be!
bluedevil2k超过 4 年前
Great article! Short read and proves his point excellently by calling out big sites that are making the mistake he points out. The Snapchat example is the best, looks terrible on my Windows machine on Firefox.
matthewheath超过 4 年前
Help Scout have this discoverability problem with dropdown menus - there&#x27;s no scroll bar when the content overflows, so I had no idea there were more options until a colleague pointed it out.<p>I felt absolutely ridiculous and ashamed after that. So, I make a point of designing all my software with visible scroll bars and other visible features that a user could reasonably expect to find without having to hunt or guess.<p>Sure, it doesn&#x27;t look as &quot;pretty&quot; but it&#x27;s so much more useable.
Aldo_MX超过 4 年前
Whenever I looked for website templates to purchase, I always hated those that had a jQuery library to &quot;restore&quot; the scrollbar.<p>I misunderstood the intent and I thought that they were just replacing the scrollbar to style it, which as a side effect broke the behavior with a mouse in Windows&#x2F;Linux, but it took me long to understand that it was because Mac OS removed them by default and it was not just designers being obsessed about styling the scrollbars...
trilinearnz超过 4 年前
I recall a point by Jobs et al. wherein the original case for GUI drop-down menus was motivated by a clear desire for discoverability, versus the arcane keyboard shortcuts of the IBM applications of the time.<p>That stuck with me for a long time, and I remembered it when MacOS and iOS first began departing from that philosophy with their modern looks. I would say Jony Ive contributed a lot to this transition from user-friendliness to design-led, form-over-function.
VoxPelli超过 4 年前
I would very much want a way to toggle scroll bars on and of within the browser, eg a Toolbar button that I can add through an extension.<p>The fact that I can only toggle it at an OS level is pretty bad. I love the invisible scroll bars and I would prefer to have them in all apps I use myself, but I do respect the platforms and users who have visible ones, but I shouldn’t have to choose between my own user experience and testing for their user experience
initself超过 4 年前
This trend is sickening. Windows 10 has a nearly 1 second delay when mousing over the Start Menu scroll bar. Why wouldn&#x27;t I want a scroll bar there? It is the primary thing I seek when I click Start.<p>In the Gmail Admin interface for users, the scrollbar vanishes unless I have my browser nearly maximized. Do the designers live in a world where their browser is always nearly full screen?<p>You&#x27;d think huge companies would notice and care about these things.
AnonHP超过 4 年前
On smaller screens I’m kinda ok with scroll bars appearing only when scrolled, but what’s with no scroll bars at all on some websites? That irks me like nothing else. I can’t even figure out how long the page is and whether I can finish reading it quickly or need to save it for a later time. What do the designers gain from such user hostile designs? And how are people paying for such designs without any oversight or reviews?!
qwertox超过 4 年前
I also have this issue with the disappearing window borders.<p>I remember on IRIX they were so bold, a real tool to be used. Same on Windows up to and including Windows 7. Now it&#x27;s like you have a 2 pixel wide invisible border, hard to click, which may be the shadow of the window, or at the edge in the window; it&#x27;s hard, specially when working over VNC. Nothing is gained by freeing up those 10 horizontal and vertical pixels.
fortran77超过 4 年前
&gt; If you are a front-end developer that uses macOS, I kindly ask you to dedicate a little more attention to how the websites you create behave on platforms other than your own.<p>I think this is a lost cause. A lot of macOS people are &quot;zealots&quot; and they feel that anyone who uses anything else is simply &quot;wrong.&quot; I&#x27;ve long dealt with designers like this and realized I can&#x27;t win.
smhmd超过 4 年前
Even Google has this problem[0].<p>[0]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;kusIhDh.png" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;kusIhDh.png</a>
axilmar超过 4 年前
And discoverability is the no 1 problem of the command line interface, that&#x27;s why a lot of people don&#x27;t like the command line so much.<p>It would be a lot nicer if, while typing a command, a list of options came up, along with a short explanation and example, and by clicking the option the full documentation for it would come up.<p>But that cannot happpen, console apps have no connection to a UI.
newyorker2超过 4 年前
What is the reason for this developer monoculture?
tonetheman超过 4 年前
This is only a problem for the web because web developers are using broken OSX to develop.<p>The amount of hidden-ness&#x2F;clevery fuckery in OSX is maddening. I would implore every one to complain to Apple to fix their broken OS.<p>The web is fine, the garbage developers are putting out is because of the broken dumpster fire of OSX.
mattacular超过 4 年前
All valid criticisms. The hidden scroll bar is also really hard to use. It removes the ability to jump to a position by clicking. It&#x27;s hard to see sometimes too.<p>You&#x27;ll notice that Apple loves to champion usability (HIG etc) ... except when it flies in the face of their minimalist aesthetic.
abruzzi超过 4 年前
this is my most hated Apple &quot;UI modernization.&quot; Its not just a problem with website, apps, even Apple apps don&#x27;t deal with it well. I always turn on scroll bars all the time (I do a lot of work with very long documents or files, and just scrolling with the scroll wheels doesn&#x27;t cut it for these), and every time I do a VNC connection using the built in screen sharing app, the scroll bars are placed in the remote screen area, rather than outside it. So every time I connect to a remote screen, the first thing I have to do is enlarge the window so I can see everything.
anurag超过 4 年前
Oy. Not fun to see Render on the list. We just fixed the horizontal scrollbar!
jhanschoo超过 4 年前
Note that in some instances `scroll` instead of `auto` is warranted. When a scrollbar is placed because of `auto`, its contents are laid out differently than `scroll`, and might cut out some content.
MH15超过 4 年前
I fell victim to this while implementing my personal website. An easy fix to be sure, and one that I think is worth it for the hidden scroll bars (which I prefer), but kind of annoying.
wyuenho超过 4 年前
This problem is so endemic for so many years now, I wonder why the browser devtools have options to turn off caching but not option to turn on the scroll bar during dev mode.
eddieh超过 4 年前
I really like the dichotomy presented in the argument that I should change my settings so scrollbars are <i>always</i> visible because they&#x27;re ugly and not needed.
donatj超过 4 年前
As someone who has scroll bars always turned on, I actually added a step in our CI that forbids `overflow: scroll`. auto is fine, scroll is never OK.
abinaya_rl超过 4 年前
Woah, Thanks for bringing it up. These are the things that remind web developers to test the cross-browser compatibility, chrome is not the universe.
ggm超过 4 年前
The microsecond of time which is the quantum between seeing the scroll element, moving focus and it going away again before you can grab it ....
JMTQp8lwXL超过 4 年前
Another example missing from the list: twitter.com. The navigation (when logged in) has an unnecessary vertical scrollbar.
awiesenhofer超过 4 年前
and then there is the new firefox for android which decided to just remove the scroll bar entirely in its new tab list. so if you have lets say the now usual amount of open tabs, you don&#x27;t have any idea where or how far along in the list you are. i wonder what the reasoning behind that was?
fcatus超过 4 年前
Let&#x27;s not forget horizontal scrollbars that cover the last line of a code you want to copy....
abraxas超过 4 年前
It was a happy day when I discovered you could disable auto hiding of scrollbars in OSX.
erwinh超过 4 年前
I like to hide my scrollbars by putting it into another div with an overflow hidden
edgarvaldes超过 4 年前
I dont like the very thin scroll bar in JetBrain IDEs.
Pxtl超过 4 年前
Problem: Apple breaks the web.<p>Solution: web developers should change how they do CSS to accommodate Apple.
btbuildem超过 4 年前
Guilty as charged
OOPMan超过 4 年前
Asking Mac users to think about the existence of other OSes?<p>Grab your ptichfors brothers and sisters, we have another heretic to burn at the stake!
bstar77超过 4 年前
I have dealt with this problem in an Electron app I designed and support. The different platform scrollbar behaviors drove me mad because of my insistence on a common experience.<p>I really like the hidden scrollbars that Apple settled on. They are easy to identify by hovering the cursor over scroll-able content and they just act as an overlay over the content. In windows, the content is actually shifted the width of the scrollbar which is terrible for UI consistency in some cases. There is the problem that hidden scrollbars remove the &quot;discovery&quot; aspect of traditional scrollbars, but I find this to be a very minor loss in practice. I don&#x27;t miss having a sliver of a scrollbar for large content blocks.<p>I ultimately just settled on styling scrollbars in CSS, making them a bit slimmer and forcing that behavior on the Mac for consistency. Scrollbars look nice, match my UI look and feel, minimally shift content and look consistent across all platforms.<p>I threw away all of the custom JS approaches that try to mimic Apple&#x27;s solution because none were perfect and, in every case, introduced new problems that disqualified them entirely.
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untog超过 4 年前
&gt; I kindly ask you to dedicate a little more attention to how the websites you create behave on platforms other than your own.<p>Agreed.<p>&gt; Alternatively, you can set the scrollbars to be visible at all times by setting System Preferences -&gt; General -&gt; Show scroll bars to Always.<p>Disagree. Now you&#x27;re using a different UI layout than the vast majority of your users!
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pcr910303超过 4 年前
Really, am I the only person here who can&#x27;t understand the complaints on hiding scrollbars? I do agree with a lot of things that resonates HN, but this is one thing that I have never understood.<p>Stop complaining about discoverability, everyone that knows how to browse the web knows how to scroll. It&#x27;s like worrying whether the user will know how to use a mouse when you&#x27;re designing a web page. Scrolling is not something like shortcuts or tabs - you need it to move around, which means you get to know it as soon as you start your computer and after the first knowing phase it&#x27;s visual clutter.<p>Also, I would like to ask whether users will usually even want to click on the scrollbar to move around. Unless the small number of cases where the page is long and you want to move around quickly (and if you have ever been in that case, you know that even there using the scrollbar is pretty useless because it&#x27;s too sensitive - you are usually less precise when you use a scrollbar, not more), there&#x27;s virtually no reason to click it. Computer screen estate is precious because not everyone is using a 27-inch display (13-inch display here), so that&#x27;s a pretty big reason to hide the scrollbar.
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