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The Social Dilemma

577 点作者 vinceleo超过 4 年前

64 条评论

codysc超过 4 年前
I just watched this last night. A lot of the content will already be well known to the HN audience. There was one big light-bulb moment for me. One of the speakers was clarifying the &quot;If you&#x27;re not paying then you are the product&quot; idea.<p>He refined it to, (rough quote), &quot;Changes to your behavior and actions are the product&quot;<p>That distinction made the insidiousness much more clear than the former statement.
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foxfired超过 4 年前
The film does play a major role. Many of us here on HN don&#x27;t even have an face&#x2F;insta&#x2F;twi&#x2F;tube account. We&#x27;ve known about this for years. But explaining it to the layperson makes you sound like you are paranoid. The movie explains it very well. (although they omit Netflix as a culprit).<p>Here is one thing that I have a hard time explaining to people. Fun is the enemy. Or at least the enemy is disguised as. When you share a meme, it&#x27;s because it&#x27;s fun. No harm there. But memes are fuel that keep the system going. People are not being misinformed (only) because the media is spewing conspiracies. They are misinformed because they are getting their news from facebook memes. You know those low quality screenshot of a news article? Or the set of 3 pictures that shows an exaggerated reaction to some news? Or worse, the twitter screenshot with no context?<p>It is funny. That&#x27;s why we share it. But when you realize what is happening in the background, it is not funny anymore.<p>Edit: I wish they had added some metric to the little bell on top: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;WNFThds.png" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;WNFThds.png</a> . it would have shown how much the little red circle entices you to click.
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frankydp超过 4 年前
Social Media platforms are like being famous without any of the good parts.<p>You just get all the shitty parts of living your life with 1000 fake friends(I mean fans) like a hero complex, or an influence complex, or hyper sensitivity to judgement, or addiction to others opinions, or addiction, or suicide, or an inability to communicate with people different than you, or an inability to determine fact from scam, or a permanent state of social one-up-manship, or a constant stream of unending judgement for all your actions in a public forum, or shit tons of fake friends, or complete social isolation in a room of people, or an advocate complex.<p>All for the pretend reason of &quot;communication&quot; or &quot;connecting the world&quot;.<p>Humans are not built to have close social bonds with 50+ people, it breaks down something about what grounds us. It is why there is a cliché for the famous person with all the bad parts above.
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jwilber超过 4 年前
I really like this documentary&#x2F;film, but if I’m being honest, it does leave a taste of typical SV virtue signaling in my mouth.<p>The website explicitly states that their site allows cookies &quot;set through our site by our advertising partners and may be used to build a profile of your interests and show you relevant ads on other sites.&quot;<p>Since visiting I received two ads for “Moment” in instagram, and one for Asana on YouTube.<p>Crazy hypocritical, opt-in or not.
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madjam002超过 4 年前
I don&#x27;t understand this movie. I agree with the sentiment that social media is bad for people, especially youngsters, but I fail to see how advertising and corporations are to blame for the UX practices of social media websites (notifications, infinite scroll, liking posts etc), especially to the level that the movie makes it out to be.<p>Sure, it is in Facebook&#x27;s best interest to keep you on the site for as long as possible so that they can drive ads. But the same issues with social media existed before Facebook had ads. People would still be checking their feed constantly, checking if their post had new likes, seeking the approval of their peers.<p>One of the interviewees said he was addicted to his email... what bad practices does Gmail employ and how exactly are advertisers to blame for this as well? Gmail has a couple of ads but that&#x27;s about it? It also said Whatsapp was one of the apps responsible for the spread of fake news, this is simply a texting client with the ability to send messages to groups.<p>Maybe it turns out that if you put technology and instant messaging in the hands of social circles, messages, whether fake news or not, spreads faster than ever.<p>If Facebook had no financial incentive, sure, maybe they would have realised the negative effect it is having on people and shut the whole thing down. But then another site would have come along doing exactly the same thing. Maybe the issue is that people don&#x27;t cope well when being connected with hundreds of &quot;friends&quot;, constantly seeing updates from their lives and feeling compelled to also share updates of their own.
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everdrive超过 4 年前
This has been done to death. And, I don&#x27;t mean that I&#x27;m tired of hearing it. It&#x27;s more like talking about the obesity epidemic. Conceptually the solution ought to be pretty simple. (eat less food, exercise more) But in practice it&#x27;s a pernicious problem which plays on our weaknesses, and does so in a way such that most people are vulnerable. We never solved this problem. Most people are a little too fat. And so too is seems with social media. There are solutions out there which definitely could work, but I doubt we&#x27;ll ever truly implement them. The problem of social media is human impulse control. And as you know, across a wide population, impulse control is lacking.
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sicromoft超过 4 年前
Watch out for misinformation on all sides. This film tries to use bicycles to make a point and gets it completely wrong. See <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;peteyreplies&#x2F;status&#x2F;1306186884683567104" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;peteyreplies&#x2F;status&#x2F;1306186884683567104</a>.
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gkoberger超过 4 年前
A lot of people are going to say this movie is filled with people who made their millions and are now on an apology tour. Their bank accounts are still large, and their creations are still at large. I agree.<p>But this also makes them the most effective people to talk about it. I&#x27;ve had so many non-tech people in my life be blown away by this movie. Nothing in it was new to me or anyone here, but most people don&#x27;t hear&#x2F;see these things.<p>Most people in this movie were early employees, before we knew how bad it could get. Back then, social media was connecting people in new ways. Facebook in the early days was fucking magical. It had the potential to change the world for good. And then... it didn&#x27;t. For example, the inventor of the Like button talked about how the goal was to spread love and appreciation. I believe him that he didn&#x27;t for-see it would someday cause a rise in suicides among young women. How could anyone? And that&#x27;s why they&#x27;re speaking up now.<p>I agree with the criticisms. Lack of diversity, culpable people trying to save grace, Netflix making money off it and not being mentioned, etc.<p>But it&#x27;s not for you or me. It&#x27;s the most succinct, visual description of what&#x27;s happening right now, made for the average person, on a streaming platform people respect. And the voices they used mean a lot more when the ideas are coming from previous true believers.
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ricardo81超过 4 年前
Nothing new in it for the HN crowd I suppose.<p>For me, privacy is the core issue, though &quot;free&quot; is part of the problem. A social network charging a dollar a year wouldn&#x27;t be great for investors but would essentially pay for itself. (As a Brit, I&#x27;d be more inclined to pay that dollar than the BBC license fee at ~170x the expense for all the &quot;soft power&quot; it has.).<p>With the monetary dial removed, filter bubbles are still a problem. I&#x27;m thinking it would be good if more algorithms could be used to counterweight a persons predilections. Show me stuff based on my interactions&#x2F;friends&#x2F;groups I&#x27;m in&#x2F;people like me&#x2F;opinions I hold&#x2F;mood I&#x27;m in, but counterweight it with things&#x2F;people that are potentially opposite or more neutral. Perhaps associate with groups of ideas for this cause, i.e. political belief, people at my place of work, people that visit the same places I do. It could be totally transparent, viewed, and even possibly reset.<p>I think the documentary was good for the general public to me made aware of how Facebook&#x2F;Google, pretty much all &quot;big tech&quot; is aggressively mining data, some more than others.
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_mkef超过 4 年前
Great movie that I agree with 1000% . I suggest Lost Connections and 10 Arguments for deleting your social media ( mentioned in the movie) as well. I stopped using all social media as of last year and the results have been amazing.<p>I&#x27;m more at peace , I no longer getting into stupid Facebook arguments. Online you aren&#x27;t interacting with whole people, so being absurdly mean is easy.<p>Most people online are just their for validation( or are bots , see the Ashley Madison hack and the FTC complaint against the Match Group). At this point in my life I&#x27;m no longer seeking that. Plus , as the movie points out constant validation seeking will wreck your mental health.<p>I was having an amazing time meeting folks pre Covid and I have a plan to become more active whenever this ends. I&#x27;m thinking I&#x27;ll try improv. Being around people does something for you that internet interactions simply can&#x27;t.
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mensetmanusman超过 4 年前
Is it supposed to be ironic that this show is, in effect, an advertisement for Netflix?<p>By not mentioning that Netflix’s goal is to get consumers to watch nonsense all day, it appears so...<p>Netflix would love people to log off of Facebook and log on Netflix :)
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isignal超过 4 年前
It was a persuasive documentary but I felt it conflates two issues which happened together - the rise of mobile phones and the rise of social media. The rise of smartphones has an important role in making social media more addictive. Some people are addicted to watching videos from Netflix or browsing websites like hacker news etc on smartphones too, which isn&#x27;t necessarily a &quot;social&quot; activity.<p>All the engagement tricks played by social media would have only gotten so far without smartphones. On the contrary, people might have been addicted to smartphones even without social media apps.
bayareabronco超过 4 年前
I&#x27;m launching an open source initiative supporting several social media platforms, starting with Matrix&#x2F;Element, a messaging app similar to WhatsApp; and then Mastodon, a microblogging platform similar to Twitter. The overall effort is being called the &quot;Resiliency Network&quot; in reference to creating a social media platform that will foster resilience in relation to the significant social, environmental, and political challenges we&#x27;re facing today. If you&#x27;re interested to get involved, please respond to this comment. Thank you!
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pietroppeter超过 4 年前
An interesting thread that points a couple of issues in the movie: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;vaishnavi&#x2F;status&#x2F;1307455391249301504" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;vaishnavi&#x2F;status&#x2F;1307455391249301504</a><p>Summarizing: the people interviewed were not the one who should have been interviewed. People from in house policy temas and others are much more knowledgeable about this and have been raising these types of issues all along. It would also have helped to show a much more diverse picture than a bunch of repented tech bros.<p>At the end of the thread, two additional posts reinforce and expand the message:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;slate.com&#x2F;technology&#x2F;2020&#x2F;09&#x2F;social-dilemma-netflix-technology.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;slate.com&#x2F;technology&#x2F;2020&#x2F;09&#x2F;social-dilemma-netflix-...</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;librarianshipwreck.wordpress.com&#x2F;2020&#x2F;09&#x2F;17&#x2F;flamethrowers-and-fire-extinguishers-a-review-of-the-social-dilemma&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;librarianshipwreck.wordpress.com&#x2F;2020&#x2F;09&#x2F;17&#x2F;flamethr...</a>
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01100011超过 4 年前
I&#x27;m a techie who indirectly makes money off the explosion in AI so I can&#x27;t say how to fix this problem. It&#x27;s good people are talking about it. There are many problems with social media and tech addiction, some of which were partially or totally covered by this movie. It was a nice production and should get people talking.<p>I hope we all, as HN commenters, take a moment to consider our participation in social media, including this site. Please be aware that your online communities are not the real world, that people are human, and those upvotes do not validate your opinions. I apologize for all the pointless, angry arguments I&#x27;ve participated in, and hope you do as well. Let your humanity shine through everything you do.
Kosirich超过 4 年前
Does anyone see a tipping point or an event that could in scale drive people from social media of Facebook, Twitter. By that I don&#x27;t mean to a competitor.(perhaps a naive question)<p>Also, is there a common denominator among people here who have stopped using social media? I mean, other than self awareness, retrospective ect. which people here generally have more than the average population.<p>What was the &quot;I need to reduce or stop looking at facebook so often moment?&quot; Mine was the fact that I became aware that I&#x27;m essentially a dog from Pavlovs experiment where instead of a bell I have a notification sound&#x2F;buzz and instead of a biscuit I get a little dopamin shot. Second was the trackers, especially as they got better and faster. I started feeling &#x27;cheap&#x27;, as I feel in reality when a merchant uses obviously exaggerated claims while acting as a friend to try to convince me to buy something. (Like last time I went to a car dealership, yuck) Third is that the connection to people I care about, close family and friends, is much better served via private group messaging apps and news via HN and others.
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auganov超过 4 年前
Can&#x27;t help but see the anti social backlash as another reincarnation of luddism. The tech is what it is. Hating the biggest companies behind it won&#x27;t change it. You not using it won&#x27;t change the world either. Just like refusing to board a train wouldn&#x27;t stop the changes its invention has brought about. The world is forever changed and looking at GDPs, it wasn&#x27;t for the worse.<p>Nothing short of a regressive global regulatory crackdown can change the new reality.<p>I think it&#x27;s worth for people to examine what it is and how it&#x27;s different. But an alarmist and hostile tone isn&#x27;t too conductive to that.
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ffggvv超过 4 年前
i tried to watch the movie and i honestly don’t get the hype. It really seems to be confirmation bias where those who already hate social media just rave about the movie.<p>and i actually think it did a very poor job at explaining things to people completely unfamiliar with the issues. i wonder if it will change a single mind or just preach to the choir
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JackPoach超过 4 年前
This is one of the few Netflix documentaries that I regret wasting my time on. Not only there&#x27;s no new information in it, but it seems to be deliberately done in a way to promote outrage and get attention from the political apparatus to regulate social media to death.
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anongoesprivate超过 4 年前
ha, the hypocrites, below is the dns request ublock origin showing on this site<p>```thesocialdilemma.com``` ```www.thesocialdilemma.com``` ```doubleclick.net``` ```googleads.g.doubleclick.net``` ```static.doubleclick.net``` ```fonts.googleapis.com``` ```youtube.com``` ```www.youtube.com```<p>if they truly have virtue, they could have used some other open sources to build the site
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pgrote超过 4 年前
I thought the movie was well made and did a good job explaining things, especially to people who don&#x27;t follow the business.<p>There is one consideration no one seriously thinks about when it comes to social media companies, in particular Facebook and Twitter. They cannot be fixed. They are failed experiments and need to end. The whole premise of the companies is to guide people&#x27;s emotions for profit whether where they guide is good for society or not.<p>There is no way they will be ended due to the money they make and the fact they do some good, but there is also no way they can be fixed. Regulations, corporate leadership or a set of ethics won&#x27;t do the trick. The framework is diseased and is a net negative on society.
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maerF0x0超过 4 年前
I laughed how the industry folks were all product and exec. Like 0 engineers. Talk about a zero social status career choice, and people wonder why people want to be managers.
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database_lost超过 4 年前
I think its good documentaries like this are made, so a greater audience gets attuned with these issues, but I for one could not get further than about 30-mins... I was honestly disappointed that such an important topic was deemed too &quot;complex&quot; and &quot;nerdy&quot; that the creators decided to resort to actors to show us the effects of these technologies... Which I guess is in line with the short attention spans caused by social media :&#x2F;
g42gregory超过 4 年前
I was really affected by the first 3&#x2F;4th of the movie. But then, they started expressing their (personal?) beliefs, for example: &quot;What happens if people begin to believe that government lies to them?&quot; Oh horror! ...Well that happens sometimes, and sometimes with a good reason.<p>They kind of stared loosing credibility with me after that. I wish the movie would stay on a single message&#x2F;issue. It would have been more powerful, at least for me.
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d3ntb3ev1l超过 4 年前
If an ex heroin dealer (who made lots of money selling the drug) came forward and talked about the problem and how to stop it, it’s more powerful given his previous association.<p>We shouldn’t discount the people speaking out because they created it.<p>We should criticize them if all they do this time is continue to make money on the problem versus resolving it with the same greed and passion they put into creating it
dalbasal超过 4 年前
There is a major point of difference, between online media monopolies and the old railroad, infrastructure and commodity monopolies of old is &quot;What happens if they dissolve.&quot;<p>If Toyota fell off the edge of the disc, next year the world has less capacity to produce cars. A lot of capital will need to be obtained, and that will need to be turned into factories over several years before the world&#x27;s productive capacity is restored. Meanwhile, people will have fewer new cars.<p>If Facebook, Twitter, or even (many parts of) Google disappear... Alternatives will emerge almost immediately. Social networking is not expensive to provide, and certainly not capital intensive. It&#x27;ll be via a different UI, but none of us will lack for social media, messaging and such.<p>This is a crucial difference, economically. Social media is worth literal trillions, yet the industry could disappear without any consumer shortages.<p>Something to consider, as the power of these giants starts to resemble the old colonial trading companies&#x27;. This may be the least necessary industry ever.
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zero_kool超过 4 年前
Looks like Nir Eyal (Author of Hooked) was interviewed for 3 hours of this documentary. But, none of his clips made it to the final version.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;nireyal&#x2F;status&#x2F;1307577732448964608" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;nireyal&#x2F;status&#x2F;1307577732448964608</a>
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un_montagnard超过 4 年前
I watched it last night. It&#x27;s pretty good for non HN crowd that might not know this already. But I personally felt that they forgot the most important question: what pushed algorithm to recommend what they are recommending? Why are Youtube&#x27;s rabbit holes more likely to be conspiracy theory related and&#x2F;or inflammatory content? In the beginning, the algorithm was probably equally pushing for this type of content and more educational content. Why can&#x27;t we make science related&#x2F;educational content interesting enough for it to become a rabbit hope recommended by algorithms?
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erentz超过 4 年前
I would like to see the ad driven model removed as an option. I think it would help. And I think there is a separate case to be made to end ad targeting for other (privacy) reasons.<p>But while watching this I realized that wouldn’t be the entire solution. Social platforms would seemingly still be incentivized to drive up engagement and to keep users addicted to their platforms vs other platforms.<p>So what are some other solutions? Do we need to turn them into publishers to make them responsible for the content the spread? Or regulate algorithms and like buttons?
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tempsy超过 4 年前
I find TikTok is the most insidious of all the social media apps out there. If Instagram is like candy, TikTok is like crack.<p>Worst part is the primary demographic is younger kids&#x2F;teens.
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jasoneckert超过 4 年前
While I enjoyed Jaron Lanier&#x27;s perspectives during this documentary, I&#x27;m somewhat disappointed that the solution he proposed in his 3-part video series for the New York Times was omitted: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;interactive&#x2F;2019&#x2F;09&#x2F;23&#x2F;opinion&#x2F;data-privacy-jaron-lanier.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;interactive&#x2F;2019&#x2F;09&#x2F;23&#x2F;opinion&#x2F;data-...</a>
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kabes超过 4 年前
One thing suggested in the movie is to consume a wide variety of media. Coincidentally, I&#x27;ve been doing exactly this for a few months. I started reading both vice and breitbart and their comment sections. And it gave me a way more nuanced perspective than staying inside my filter bubble &#x2F; echo room.
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hexxiiiz超过 4 年前
On one hand, I think there is certainly a perspective in this doc that shows where critical views are needed around the consequences of certain business models coming from big tech. On the other hand, it seems to attribute a lot of the recent political divide to the rise of social networks without considering that a lot of these changes happened alongside the wake of the 2008 economic collapse, which almost certainly has contributed a lot to this political division. The suggestion that things were good before these social networks permeated people&#x27;s lives overlooks a much longer narrative of wealth inequality in the West, and particularly in the US issues with housing, jobs, and the education ssystem. In some ways, the social dilemma is the ultimate #firstworldproblem of our time.
neves超过 4 年前
The movie consulted (and interviewed) the guys from this podcast Your Undivided Attention <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.humanetech.com&#x2F;podcast" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.humanetech.com&#x2F;podcast</a><p>It has nice episodes with deeper discussion of the social network social problem.
kontxt超过 4 年前
I wrote a critique of a The Verge editor&#x27;s critique--on top of their critique--on The Social Dilemma.<p>Check it out here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.kontxt.io&#x2F;proxy&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theverge.com&#x2F;interface&#x2F;2020&#x2F;9&#x2F;16&#x2F;21437942&#x2F;social-dilemma-netflix-review-orlowski-sarah-zhang-memo-facebook-buzzfeed?user=d" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.kontxt.io&#x2F;proxy&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theverge.com&#x2F;interfa...</a><p>Or here&#x27;s a streamlined summary: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.kontxt.io&#x2F;document&#x2F;d&#x2F;JdE8ujfZmPy3bIAiv-tZQXVWfVfFuj2lbuYVa6XAtGCeJ&#x2F;summary" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.kontxt.io&#x2F;document&#x2F;d&#x2F;JdE8ujfZmPy3bIAiv-tZQXVWfVf...</a>
kontxt超过 4 年前
I wrote a critique of a The Verge editor&#x27;s critique--on top of their critique--on #theSocialDilemma.<p>Check it out here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.kontxt.io&#x2F;proxy&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theverge.com&#x2F;interface&#x2F;2020&#x2F;9&#x2F;16&#x2F;21437942&#x2F;social-dilemma-netflix-review-orlowski-sarah-zhang-memo-facebook-buzzfeed?user=d" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.kontxt.io&#x2F;proxy&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theverge.com&#x2F;interfa...</a><p>Or here&#x27;s a streamlined summary: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.kontxt.io&#x2F;document&#x2F;d&#x2F;JdE8ujfZmPy3bIAiv-tZQXVWfVfFuj2lbuYVa6XAtGCeJ&#x2F;summary" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.kontxt.io&#x2F;document&#x2F;d&#x2F;JdE8ujfZmPy3bIAiv-tZQXVWfVf...</a>
Whut超过 4 年前
I really liked the information in this movie. I didn&#x27;t hear anything that I didn&#x27;t already know, but I thought it was well done. I really hope people turn away from these technologies. I feel like the only way we can heal our information ecosystem is buy educating people about the dangers of a social media heavy information diet. I think we also need to be mindful of the identities within us that these algorithms are exploiting. Ask yourself how you feel when you get off these sites. My answer was always &quot;mad&#x27;, &quot;angry&quot; or &quot;sad&quot;. Once you realize the effect these sites have on your mood, you&#x27;re a lot more motivated to change your behavior.
ttul超过 4 年前
The moment that got me in this film was when they described how social network monetization algorithms gently move us toward a more radical position. We are better targets for advertisers when we spend more time on the platform. The platform doesn&#x27;t care _why_ we&#x27;re on the platform; it just wants us to be there as much as possible.<p>If the platform nudges us toward radical right-wing conspiracies, so be it. Similarly, if it helps us become a fervent Democrat, so long as we&#x27;re on the platform, that&#x27;s all that matters.<p>I deleted Facebook and Instagram Friday night after watching, and I suspect many of you will as well. I&#x27;ve had a great weekend with so much free time...
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iamericfletcher超过 4 年前
I find it interesting when the individual(s) who ruthlessly engineer the problem(s) take on the role of some sort of savior only after successfully extracting life changing amounts of wealth.
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seveneightn9ne超过 4 年前
I&#x27;d passed this over on Netflix, assuming it would be too introductory. Is it interesting enough for someone who&#x27;s already familiar with the premise from having been around on HN?
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pier25超过 4 年前
I saw it a couple of days ago. I&#x27;m not the audience for this doc but I liked the interviews. The dramatizations were boring but I guess they make the point for younger audiences.
kaichanvong超过 4 年前
I got half way through this... possibly less. Its really a shocking thing to see that people dont know for themselves someone in tech they can trust and chat to about the actual problem. Actually a group of people. I consider it more the social experiment. The show is great for getting people to consider but also reconsider. Time to get back into it I suppose!
sexy_seedbox超过 4 年前
This film could have been much shorter without the cheesy subplot which felt like a bad episode of Black Mirror.
darekkay超过 4 年前
The &quot;Nosedive&quot; episode of Black Mirror [0] is a nice thought experiment, where the whole person&#x27;s life revolves around a social media score.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.imdb.com&#x2F;title&#x2F;tt5497778&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.imdb.com&#x2F;title&#x2F;tt5497778&#x2F;</a>
ryan-allen超过 4 年前
&gt; &quot;Changes to your behavior and actions are the product&quot;<p>This and how they are eroding the attention spans of the consumers of their product.<p>Now more than ever it is important that thought workers develop their attentional skills, they&#x27;re in short supply and getting shorter and shorter!
hliyan超过 4 年前
I have a (unverified) hypothesis that the root cause is government spending: government spending -&gt; inflation -&gt; need for high returns on investments -&gt; investor pressure -&gt; growth -&gt; advertising -&gt; need for attention -&gt; sensationalization.
wooptoo超过 4 年前
Screened Out is also very good and touches on the influence social media has on child development <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.netflix.com&#x2F;title&#x2F;81306217" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.netflix.com&#x2F;title&#x2F;81306217</a>
mkbkn超过 4 年前
I just watched it this weekend. The idea most resonated to me was the comparison of FB feed with Wikipedia.<p>What if Wikipedia shows everyone a different page rather than the same? That&#x27;s manipulation. And it&#x27;s not good in that context.
toomim超过 4 年前
Previous discussion of the film: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=24468533" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=24468533</a>
ouid超过 4 年前
I wish they had plugged adblockers at all in the movie.
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djhaskin987超过 4 年前
Kinds of ironic that a web site that says tech controls and monetizes us had a &quot;please accept cookies&quot; dialog in the same breath.
ilaksh超过 4 年前
It&#x27;s not the technology. It&#x27;s the people and what they are doing with it. Technology is just an amplifier.
MrXOR超过 4 年前
There are only two industries that refer to their customers as users: illegal drugs and software (social media).
crearo超过 4 年前
What really resonated with me is one of the speakers talking about taxing companies on collecting users&#x27; data. They first establish that the sole driving factor for these companies is making more money than the previous quarter. Now, if companies had to pay financially for all the data they store, they wouldn&#x27;t have as strong an incentive to collect every possible data point that they can.
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intricatedetail超过 4 年前
How is this different from the manipulation it pictures?
fmakunbound超过 4 年前
I came out of it with a fresh hatred of Adtech.
tagami超过 4 年前
BF Skinner. Variable reward loops. Your programmed brain. It’s how Vegas works, it’s how adverts work, it’s how how study for tests in school
danielnixon超过 4 年前
I like these two articles on the topic of Tristan Harris:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.wired.com&#x2F;story&#x2F;tech-needs-to-listen-to-actual-researchers&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.wired.com&#x2F;story&#x2F;tech-needs-to-listen-to-actual-r...</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;2018&#x2F;may&#x2F;03&#x2F;why-silicon-valley-cant-fix-itself-tech-humanism" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;2018&#x2F;may&#x2F;03&#x2F;why-silicon-val...</a>
sxyuan超过 4 年前
The only thing worse than a free product that manipulates you, is a paid product that <i>still</i> manipulates you. The height of irony in The Social Dilemma was the shot where LinkedIn and Google (separately from YouTube, which is fair game IMO) were listed among these evil addictive technologies and somehow Netflix, a pioneer of autoplay and binge watching, didn&#x27;t make the cut.<p>That aside, the insidious thing about this movie is that many of the issues in brings up are real. There are real problems with social media addiction, ad tech, and filter bubbles. Changes do need to be made. Some might even need to be forced onto the big tech companies. However, these problems are not the root of all evil, as The Social Dilemma would have us believe.<p>They are certainly not the primary cause of societal upheaval we&#x27;ve been seeing. Political polarization in the US has been rising since the 90s, well before social media became dominant. Racism and police violence have never really gone away. Blaming tech for everything both makes it harder to fix the real problems with tech and easier to ignore the problems that exist elsewhere in society.<p>Off the top of my head, some things that deserve just as much blame for the problems this movie pins on technology:<p>1. The death of the Fairness Doctrine in 1987 (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;FCC_fairness_doctrine" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;FCC_fairness_doctrine</a>)<p>People can see distorted views of the world without the help of social media. One can argue that even now, Fox News and other mainstream media have a greater role in shaping public opinion than social media does. Not to mention the conglomerization of local news (driven by capital rather than tech) and the nationalization of media (enabled by tech, but driven by the MSM).<p>2. The slow death of the middle class, in the US and elsewhere.<p>An underlying assumption of The Social Dilemma and its line of argument is that people are dumb and easily manipulated. I suspect the educated elite, well-represented in the movie and over-represented here on HN, are particularly succeptible to this kind of thinking, myself included. But I think the reality is that most people care about their livelihoods more than anything else, and the polarization and upheaval we&#x27;ve been seeing (from Brexit to Trump) can largely be attributed to different reactions to this erosion of the middle class. The left might attribute it to unregulated capitalism and a failing social safety net. The right might attribute it to globalization, immigration, etc. The underlying phenomenon is the same, and has very little to do with tech, unless you&#x27;re talking about factories and shipping costs.<p>3. Some problems have always been around - social media just makes everything more visible.<p>The last century saw two world wars, plenty of revolutions and armed conflict outside of that (which seems like a gross understatement, but there are too many to list), the death of the British Empire and the rise of many new nations, lots of social upheaval in the US... the list goes on. There&#x27;s plenty to say about the 21st century as well, but looking back on history, I don&#x27;t know if things have really gotten that much worse.<p>To put it differently, many on HN (myself included) love to tinker with tooling - editors, note-taking apps, what have you. But at the end of the day, we have to get back to the real work, and use those tools to accomplish meaningful things. If you look at social media and Internet technologies as tools for society, then yes, it&#x27;s valuable to scrutinize them and see how they can be improved. But at the end of the day, we also need to get out into society and get to work, with whatever tools we have at hand.
strawberrypuree超过 4 年前
If you&#x27;re looking for your next step after this documentary, it&#x27;s:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;The_Age_of_Surveillance_Capitalism" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;The_Age_of_Surveillance_Capita...</a>
holtkam2超过 4 年前
This should be required viewing for all high school students.
disown超过 4 年前
I wonder who is behind the &quot;social dilemma&quot; propaganda&#x2F;advertising campaign.<p>&quot;Ask HN: What do you think about “The Social Dilemma”?&quot;<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=24468533" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=24468533</a>
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cm2012超过 4 年前
Documentaries are the worst way to put forth a legitimate argument (in this case, the argument is that social media is bad). The Social Dilemma, like other docs meant to persuade, is shallow and one sided. Entertainment in the guise of information.
ForHackernews超过 4 年前
This film is full of hypocrites who got rich off social media and then found religion.
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