TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

Company was hosting cardiac patient monitoring on EC2

442 点作者 jln大约 14 年前

31 条评论

stick大约 14 年前
This is a combination of posters not understanding what the technology is used for and the tech guy exaggerating the urgency of the situation.<p>Remote cardiac monitoring isn't for people who are imminently going to die of catastrophic heart attacks or who risk dropping into a fatal arrhythmia (wonky heart rhythm). In fact, there isn't even solid evidence that it saves lives. What it <i>is</i> used for is investigating patients who have vague symptoms which might be related to transient changes in their heart beat.<p>These are people who come to their doctor at the age of 54 and say "I felt my heart beating really quickly and felt kind of faint" or "I felt kind of dizzy and then passed out. It's happened twice in the last month." The more traditional way to investigate these patients are with what's called a Holter monitor, as alluded to by a previous poster. These are little belt packs you carry around while wired-up and that record your ECG for 24-48 hours at a time. The main weakness? You said it: the device only has a 24-48 hour windows to capture the weird, often rare, rhythm.<p>There are different ways remote cardiac monitoring systems report their results and I'm not sure which this particular company was using, but it doesn't really matter. Some of them only report weird stretches, others only report events when the patient says they're feeling symptom X, others are reporting continuously.<p>Take-home message: this is not life-or-death data. When doctors (at least those who are allowed to keep practicing) think a patient needs critical cardiac monitoring, they admit them to hospital.<p>This was a tech guy, looking to jump the queue by trying to raise a red flag because his servers were being used for--OMFG!--cardiac monitoring. A lot of my doctor buddies use similar strategies when they're caught speeding by the police. "I just got called in to the hospital!"<p>…to see a patient with a really nasty rash.
评论 #2477984 未加载
评论 #2481270 未加载
_3u10大约 14 年前
This reminds me of doing tech support back during the dot bomb. Everyday we'd have day traders phone in complaining that their internet was down and they were losing thousands of dollars. Then I'd advise them to switch to their backup connection, then they'd say they didn't have one.<p>Finally, I'd ask why if they were running a business that could generate / lose thousands of dollars in a few minutes why they had chosen a residential internet service instead of opting for the business package and why they did not have a backup connection as neither the business packages or residential packages came with a SLA that was suitable for the type of risk inherent in their business.<p>If their data is so important why are they hosting it on the absolute cheapest and shittiest servers they can find without a backup solution in place? If they read the TOS for EC2 it probably says not to run critical infrastructure on it.<p>Perhaps for sensitive data upon which people's lives depend they might want to look into something like:<a href="http://h20223.www2.hp.com/nonstopcomputing/cache/76385-0-0-0-121.html?jumpid=go/integritynonstop" rel="nofollow">http://h20223.www2.hp.com/nonstopcomputing/cache/76385-0-0-0...</a><p>Yes, it costs more than EC2, but there's a reason for that. Wait until this company finds out that if their values exceed what MySQL expects it will silently truncate it.
byoung2大约 14 年前
<i>We are a monitoring company and are monitoring hundreds of cardiac patients at home.</i><p>If this is a serious post and there really is a service that monitors cardiac patients from home, first you would have to deal with the unreliability of in-home broadband connections. What if a router needs to be reset, or the DSL goes out? Even if you ignore that, you would expect that any server setup will go down at some time. It has happened to Google, Facebook, Twitter, and now AWS and PlayStation Network. I remember when Rackspace went down a few years back (a truck crashed into the transformer that powered the datacenter - <a href="http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2007/11/13/truck-crash-knocks-rackspace-offline/" rel="nofollow">http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2007/11/13/truck...</a>). All of Armenia was knocked offline when a woman cut a fiber optic line while digging for scrap metal. I'm not sure I'd trust the internet with any kind of life or death monitoring.
评论 #2477606 未加载
评论 #2477539 未加载
recampbell大约 14 年前
Interesting quote from a company providing such services:<p>"The Remote Health Monitoring System is the IT backbone that supports HealthFrontier’s entire portfolio of solutions, including the ecg@home™ and the microtel™/ecgAnywhere™. It captures data transmitted by the patient through USB, Bluetooth, or trans-telephonically. The RHMS™ then stores the information in a database, which can be accessed by the patient’s doctor through a web-based interface. Benefits include:<p>Cloud computing: The RHMS is hosted on a network of servers across the US, which increases reliability and eliminates the need for a large capital investment in on-site hardware and maintenance."<p><a href="http://www.healthfrontier.com/rhms.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.healthfrontier.com/rhms.php</a><p>How many other companies provide home ECG monitoring which report over the web? I'm looking but having a hard time finding more. I will update this post as I do.<p>[UPDATE] Other Home-based ECG monitoring services:<p>Medtronic CareLink: <a href="http://www.medtronic.com/your-health/heart-failure/device/cardiac-resynchronization-therapy-defibrillators/carelink/index.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.medtronic.com/your-health/heart-failure/device/ca...</a><p>[UPDATE] A more complete listing: <a href="http://www.medcompare.com/matrix/1475/Outpatient-Cardiac-Monitoring-(Telemetry)-Services.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.medcompare.com/matrix/1475/Outpatient-Cardiac-Mon...</a>
评论 #2478066 未加载
评论 #2477518 未加载
sliverstorm大约 14 年前
Hmm... That would rather seem to be the monitoring company's own fault. Admittedly I haven't used ec2 for about 3 years, but I seem to recall there being an explicit disclaimer about how it wasn't supposed to be used for this kind of uptime-critical application. I want to say it even specifically mentioned medical stuff.
评论 #2477459 未加载
评论 #2477440 未加载
评论 #2477791 未加载
teilo大约 14 年前
Elastic Load Balancer, anyone? I have no sympathy for this company. They deserve to get sued for this.<p>Yes, for something life threatening like this, EC2 is a bad idea, but they didn't even bother to take advantage of the geographic redundancy, much less something so basic as having backup AMIs ready in another AZ in your current region.<p>Of course, a whole lot of companies are learning this now.
评论 #2477531 未加载
评论 #2477519 未加载
zaidf大约 14 年前
This is where you wish you had a data center address and a cabinet number where you could pop in, grab your servers and move the heck out to another DC.<p>I wonder if this will get more companies to maintain a non-cloud, vanilla setup on some dedicated or collocated boxes.<p>May be we should have an annual day to bring down our primary servers and see how the backups do. The idea shouldn't be to confirm if everything works or not. It should be to determine what did work and did not work.
评论 #2477446 未加载
cypherpunks大约 14 年前
I'd like to see more back story first. Medicine is about risk management. There are places where you need 1/100,000 reliability, and there are places where you need 1/1000, and there are even places where 1/10 is good enough. There are primary systems, and there are auxiliary systems.<p>Without any background, it is really tough to tell where this fits. You can't blame the people for making the wrong decision until you know what the risk profile for the failure is.
blantonl大约 14 年前
Actual quote in the Amazon support forums from this company:<p>"<i>This not just some social network website issue, but a serious threat to peoples lives!</i>"
评论 #2477444 未加载
评论 #2477396 未加载
ceejayoz大约 14 年前
Later in the thread they say two instances are up but the third has most of the patients. If any of their patients die, they should be convicted of negligent manslaughter, not Amazon. Amazon explicitly warns that single instances can be lost. Any EC2 system needs redundancy, let alone a patient critical one!
renegadedev大约 14 年前
I recently had the "good" fortune of being at the receiving end of a sales pitch from one cloud hosting service (not Amazon). The pitch centered more around flexibility (ability to add CPUs, RAM, storage, network nodes) rather than reliability issues as the one EC2 is facing right now. All questions about reliability were brushed aside with blanket statements like "it's in the cloud" as if that was an end-all-be-all. After much prodding the sales rep admitted that the hosting was all in one location (low lying hurricane prone area) and if we desired redundancy we would have to mirror our apps at a different geographical location. As with any other product, don't believe the sales pitch. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Always use redundancy specially for critical apps.
protomyth大约 14 年前
I really hope this is someone's idea of a joke, but the nature of this person's other questions tends to make me believe no.<p>Sometime during the last couple of days, a lawyer was getting a lecture from IT on how the system works and is going to have a very, very bad year.
jamesbkel大约 14 年前
I wish they offered some more detail on how important/life-threatening this is. Are we talking monitoring as in "detect signs of impending/occurring cardiac event and notify emergency services"? Or is this monitoring in a longitudinal sense, assisting physicians to look at trends in their patients? If it is the later case, is data stored on the device until it's uploaded, or is it simply lost if the connection fails?<p>Still, not really forgivable to be 100% AWS, but it's a very different story if this is primarily a recording device vs. a monitoring device.
st0p大约 14 年前
That's not even stupid, that is moronic.
评论 #2477450 未加载
评论 #2477449 未加载
forgotAgain大约 14 年前
This is too incredible to be true. But if it is true then I would expect the company in question to be out of business quite soon. A company that put's a life critical system on AWS shows a total disregard for their patients well being.
评论 #2477715 未加载
csomar大约 14 年前
Isn't this a good start-up idea? A start-up that backup your website and deploy it to another hosting in case the one you are using is down.
评论 #2477585 未加载
yaix大约 14 年前
Just wow! How difficult can it be to have a backup dedi server with the DB mirrored running at some other provider to quickly switch to, just in case? Even many simple web sites have a config like that. Clouds have been around for decades, they are still new and may fail.
arkitaip大约 14 年前
Surely this must be criminal? This is one area where atleast 99.9999% uptime should be mandatory.
dasil003大约 14 年前
Troll?
code_duck大约 14 年前
This is just supplementary monitoring, not a true life-or-death situation. Everyone (the company involved included) is welcome to stop blowing it out of proportion any time.
gte910h大约 14 年前
I see EC2 as a good piece of infrastructre to have as <i>part</i> of a failover plan. But should it be even 1/3 the providers for servers? No.
评论 #2477992 未加载
FreshCode大约 14 年前
Bullshit, linkbait post. After reading the whole thing, I would gladly spend karma to downvote this.
评论 #2478685 未加载
rbanffy大约 14 年前
So, they experienced a Schrödinger situation...
tybris大约 14 年前
Those people should be prosecuted for utter incompetence.
chrisjsmith大约 14 年前
Epic fail for the company which is hosting on their kit. Whoever threw it on there is a total dick. There is nothing wrong with EC2 here. It's just not the right tool for the job.<p>If they are monitoring cardiac patients, they should, at least for non-critical people, have the instrumentation cache the data and send when available over leased lines.<p>If it is critical, it should be PROPER HARDWARE attached to the POTS network (like we have in the UK!) with multiple redundant networks over several distinct carriers and multiple monitoring stations.<p>It sounds like their product is a) crap and b) dangerous if used for critical care.
评论 #2477431 未加载
评论 #2477448 未加载
评论 #2477489 未加载
评论 #2478302 未加载
logjam大约 14 年前
If this story is true (and I have some doubts), you'd think this would have been a no-brainer to not try to keep critical data like this in the cloud.<p>But even for non-critical medical data, non-tech savvy medical folks (and this includes some physicians, although in general physicians are more tech-savvy than most managed care decision makers) are going to get into increasingly serious trouble if they don't think through these kinds of things very carefully.<p>Driven by electronic health care mandates and incentives, companies are pushing portable devices for medical data gathering (portable as in tablet, ie without local data store), and some groups are going to be knee-jerk tempted into buying into this without thinking through the ramifications of not owning your own data -- and by that, I don't mean vague marketing-speak hand-waving that "you own your data" through the simple mechanism of password-protected access to your patient's data living on someone's server farm.<p>By actually owning your patient's data, I mean strongly considering restricting your local practice to use of on-site media.<p>If you don't, you'd better have complete confidence that putting your patient's data on the web reflects a reasonable standard of care/privacy, that retention policies don't bite you in six months when your cloud provider goes out of business (or changes hands or farms out data storage or backup to some "economical" third-party), that you're going to have access to your data when you need it, that your cloud provider is going to audit access and changes to your patient's data and report the results of that audit to you accurately and regularly, that legal requests for data are not acted upon without you or your patient's consent, that backups are subjected to the same levels of security, etc. etc.<p>Electronic medical records are a good idea. It can be done right, as systems such as the Veteran's Administration's VISTA system have demonstrated. However, there is a fine line to walk here. Implementing EHR for the sake of government incentive, or for the convenience of insurance companies, or even the convenience of walking into an exam room carrying a light-weight tablet (which have their own disadvantages for data gathering) rather than a laptop with a hard-drive isn't going to cut it when you put your patients and your practice at risk of harm.
MSDjunior大约 14 年前
who was the IT professional that decided to rely soley on the AWS cloud without any kind of "just in case" solution....with people's lives at stake? lol. I think I'm gonna subscribe to the hoax theory
mkramlich大约 14 年前
"We'll gladly agree to take care of grandma as long as you understand we only guarantee a 99% uptime. Good? Good. Sign here."
beck5大约 14 年前
This is the sort of service which should have a back up, its not reddit.<p>If it can go wrong it will go wrong.
MichaelApproved大约 14 年前
I hope no one dies because of this. Yet, the sad part is, it'll take someones death to get serious attention and help prevent this stupidity in the future.<p>Of course, then things will swing wildly in the other direction with massive legislation and regulation thats designed to get a lawmaker reelected more than it is to save lives.
nblavoie大约 14 年前
Wow, this is the worse idea I've ever seen since a freaking while. Poor him (or them) though.