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The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News (2019)

615 点作者 bluu00超过 4 年前

72 条评论

echelon超过 4 年前
Thanks dang!<p>You&#x27;ve helped keep HN readable, corrected countless title and link errors, and prevented heated discussions from devolving into fights.<p>I also am super thankful for your help getting my &quot;Show HN&quot; post to the front page.<p>We all appreciate you.
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Hnrobert42超过 4 年前
When I first came to HN from reddit, I posted some jokey nonsense comment. A moderator gently scolded me. I really disliked it. Now, I see the wisdom of keeping the jokes to a minimum and focusing in thoughtful discussion. So thank you, mods.
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chrisweekly超过 4 年前
&gt; &quot;[dang] later told me that he sees frustration at work as part of the DNA of Hacker News. “The instinct that there simply has to be a better way to build systems, and the yearning to connect with it,” he said. “If you can’t do that at your job, and few can, then you can at least dream and read and argue about it on the Internet. Hacker News is the inverse image of many people’s jobs, overlaid on top of each other—an escape valve for frustrated idealists.”<p>^ My favorite line in the whole piece. It resonates.
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throwaway4220超过 4 年前
This place is amazing, and I learned so much about a variety of topics. Most of my MD colleagues use Twitter or Facebook, where the signal-to-noise is much, much lower. I assume there have been plenty of spin-offs from HN (I would LOVE to have a similar forum for discussing medical issues; Can I fork the codebase somehow?), but I do think the secret sauce is moderation.<p>Also, politically, I&#x27;m &quot;an enlightened centrist&quot; lol and nearly all of the political spectrum here is represented well IMO, and even personal attacks&#x2F;strawman arguments are not immediately banned but first discouraged.<p>Thanks dang!
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BoppreH超过 4 年前
Obligatory appreciation post for dang.<p>Swift invisible action when facing bad faith actors; sporadic public call outs for quick attitude correction; and consistent helpful presence like multi-page reminders and clarifications on the inner workings of this forum.<p>I find your style of moderation to be the golden standard on how to foster a healthy online community.
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umvi超过 4 年前
Ah... dang = [Dan]iel [G]ackle<p>I always thought it was just a mild expletive that reflected the role of moderation
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Vaslo超过 4 年前
I’ve put up a bunch of stories, most get no traction. However on the weekend once in a while I get a message from HN that one of my stories is pretty interesting and I should repost it. While every other service relies completely on some algorithm, it’s good to see a place like HN where people are jumping in and trying to stabilize things.
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rkagerer超过 4 年前
I just want to say I love this community and am grateful for the heroic work Daniel (dang) and others have devoted through the years to maintain it, both technical and social.<p>The article showcased some of the more extreme comments out of what I&#x27;ve found to be, overall, a cornucopia of informative and thoughtful discourse.<p>This quote in particular was poignant and I think epitomizes a core value that makes this place special:<p><i>There’s often a strong wish to solve these contentious problems by changing the software, and, to the extent that we’ve tried things like that, we haven’t found it to work. What does seem to work better is personal interaction, over and over and over again, with individual users. That, case by case by case, seems to move the needle.</i>
brunojppb超过 4 年前
I come from a very small town in Brazil in the middle of nowhere. I was interested in Tech since I was a kid, but had zero influence around me. I was a police officer for many years when I decided to go to university and study computer science. There, by a recommendation of a great professor, I got introduced to Hacker News. First time I saw this website, my mind was blown by the amount of rich information and links pointing me to gold pages on the web I have never heard of. But this was just the shallow surface. Once I discovered the comments section and started reading the threads, I was once again astonished by the rich content and discussions going on. Sometimes, I spend hours just reading brilliant comments here and learning from people way smarter than me. Thanks for this community and the moderators for making this happen :D
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Jaruzel超过 4 年前
Did dang promote this to the front page? :)<p>Seriously tho... shout out to dang for all the hard work he does.<p>(Please don&#x27;t vote me up if you agree - I don&#x27;t want the karma - just comment instead...)
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mdturnerphys超过 4 年前
(2019)<p>Previous discussion: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=20643052" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=20643052</a>
CalChris超过 4 年前
As someone who has been dinged by dang, I appreciate moderation.
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mcguire超过 4 年前
&quot;<i>For decades, the phrase “Eternal September” has been used to describe the tipping point for a message board or online community—the inclusion, or invasion, of new users who dramatically change the existing subculture. (The term originated in September, 1993, after America Online made Usenet, a decades-old message-board system, accessible to many of its members, who were new to the Internet.)</i>&quot;<p>Actually, it predates that; referring to when a new crop of undergraduates would arrive at schools on the Internet.
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julianlam超过 4 年前
One thing I&#x27;ve always wondered, is whether moderating a forum like HN (or any forum, really) is mentally stimulating enough to do day in and day out.<p>As a web developer, the more I do the more I crave novel challenges. Writing CRUD apps or getters and setters gets old fast.<p>Are there novel challenges with content moderation?
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Raphmedia超过 4 年前
I&#x27;ve been confronted by Dang a long while ago in an account I lost the access to since. I was hurt, but it was also a very educative experience.<p>Most of my life has been spent moderating online communities. Needless to say why, I am trying to mimic the style of moderation I have been on the receiving end of.<p>Keep up the good work!
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sonofhans超过 4 年前
Thank you, dang! More than anything, what makes this place a joy to frequent is the quality of the discourse. Your guiding hand is visible in the curation of both articles and comments.<p>Community sites like HN fall into many common pathologies. Your laser focus on avoiding those traps, and intentionally chasing positive models, has me always looking forward to loading the site and diving into the discourse.
Memosyne超过 4 年前
I found this comment about the &quot;shock&quot; experienced by the author interesting: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23308098" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23308098</a><p>&gt; If you read the profile the New Yorker published about us last year, you&#x27;ll find the author&#x27;s own shock experience of HN encoded into that article (and it&#x27;s something of a miracle of openness and intelligence that she was able to get past that—the shock experience really is that bad).
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esoterica超过 4 年前
&gt; The site’s now characteristic tone of performative erudition—hyperrational, dispassionate, contrarian, authoritative—often masks a deeper recklessness.<p>Not that I disagree with the characterization, but the New Yorker criticizing other people for performative erudition is the funniest thing ever.
mikewarot超过 4 年前
I find that NH is a great jumping off point for adventures I didn&#x27;t even know I wanted to take. For instance, in this story I learned that some people can down-vote, and a lot of work is done in the background to keep goofballs like me from derailing things.<p>I too would like to thank the moderators.<p>Further, and more interestingly to me, I learn that HN is written in a LISP variant called ARC... I&#x27;ve never understood LISP, and especially never thought that anything useful could be built with it... at least at the subconscious level, yet I know AutoCad and Emacs are built around it. I have similar feelings about Prolog, which I tried once and just didn&#x27;t grok.<p>Is there an IDE for lisp?
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jdkee超过 4 年前
After spending the late 1990s and 2000s on Slashdot, with the trolling and toxic flamewars, HN reflects how a mature social commenting site should be.
rswail超过 4 年前
HN reminds me of ye olde days of Usenet, where you browsed sci.space and learned orbital mechanics, or comp.lang.c or x.y.z just for fun.<p>The content isn&#x27;t always enlightening, but most of it is, or at least intelligent and thought provoking.<p>Twitter is fine for following individuals, lwn.net for Linux specific stuff, even slashdot on occasion, although slashdot often ends up being a repeat of the stories that are here.
bikamonki超过 4 年前
I only have two doors to enter the web each day: HN and Twitter.<p>On Twitter, I try hard do a better job moderating content by carefully selecting who to follow; however, much noise is unavoidable. (Twitter needs to rethink itself)<p>On the other door, this door, I ALWAYS end up in the right spots. This is the best site on the web, no doubt. Here I discover, I learn, I get inspired. I get downvoted too :)<p>Thanks mods!
madrox超过 4 年前
Moderation is the hardest, most subjective problem on the internet today. Plus, it doesn&#x27;t scale well. Part of me wonders if the way we design the forums themselves lend itself to this problem. Is there a way to design forums so that the need for moderation is lessened or unneeded? I think the answer is no, but I&#x27;d like to think it&#x27;s yes.
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lostphilosopher超过 4 年前
HN remains one of the few &quot;internet communities&quot; where the impossible job of moderation is well done (IMO). Thanks dang!
NiceWayToDoIT超过 4 年前
Funny enough, listening to the narrator&#x27;s voice gave me an impression of very serious and somewhat condescending note. Personally, I do not consider HN in that way.<p>I think about HN as a place where we share ideas, playful place regardless of how complex a topic is.<p>The main point is to put in the spotlight ideas, not people. Attacking an idea is ok, attacking people is not.
RobertRoberts超过 4 年前
Maybe Dang will never read this, but I appreciate the patience and logical (useful and firm) directions he gave when I stepped outside the posting rules for HN.<p>Thanks Dang, I actually learned something from how you dealt calmly with a random internet poster.<p>Cheers, and bravo.
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chrisandchips超过 4 年前
Dang&#x27;s done a super great job, especially recently with some huge threads related to the election.<p>I would like to raise one point that&#x27;s tangentially related: why is it not easier to find a page explaining the community guidelines ? AFAIK you have to look them up yourself.<p>The navbar has links to new, threads, past, comments, ask, show, jobs and submit, but none of them even give a clear redirect link to get to the guidelines ... wouldn&#x27;t it make sense to add them to nav, or configure the site such that they&#x27;re displayed the first time you visit ? Always seemed a bit funny to me from a design perspective.
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telltruth超过 4 年前
I really appreciate @dang for such an attentive hard work. He definitely deserves kudos. But here&#x27;s the rub. You will not see this post. I have been secretely ghosted out so all my comments goes to bottom no matter how thoughful or informative it may be. There is no way for me to de-ghosted. He or other mod probably did this to me for some reason I don&#x27;t even know or remember. The moderation at HN is like life sentense that you don&#x27;t even know why and when you got it and then cannot be challanged.
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thunderbong超过 4 年前
Thanks Dang and Sam!<p>I don&#x27;t think I&#x27;ve read as many comments as I have on this thread and neither have I read every line of any other New York Times article as diligently!
Karunamon超过 4 年前
This is a truly amazing place. I know there are some haters out there, (your ngates and your shithnsays&#x27;s), but HN is a truly unique board, with overall quality discussion, and a high SNR, and the moderation policy is a huge part of all of this.<p>So seriously, thanks dang. I think we&#x27;ve come to blows a few times, probably even not-so-kind ones, but whatever you&#x27;re doing here works and you should probably keep doing it :)
batirch超过 4 年前
HackerNews is my go to place for any type of tech question. Recently, I had RSI because of related sports injury. I learnt VIM shortcuts, bought Microsoft Egonomic keyboard and logi mouse based on suggestions here. I am learning tones of stuff on technologies that I use daily. I really wish I had like-minded friends in real life who are hackernews fans. Hit me up if anyone currently in or visits Dubai, UAE.
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nickthemagicman超过 4 年前
I personally probably owe them both numerous dinners and drinks for their time and patience with me on certain emotional hotbutton topics.<p>Thank you both for your work!
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atum47超过 4 年前
Well, when I got my first meaningful job as a software engineer I made sure to come here and thank the awesome people of HN - I usually talk to Dang, but I&#x27;m sure everyone is nice.<p>I have vanished from several places like twitter, reddit, linkedin... HN is the place I come daily to read the news and often share my personal projects.<p>Thanks Dang - and everyone else - I sure appreciate you.
totemandtoken超过 4 年前
Obviously, to echo everyone else&#x27;s sentiments, I&#x27;m grateful for dang and tbh the hn community at large.<p>But one thing I keep thinking back to is the abysmal discussion of the Event Horizon Telescope black hole pictures. I think they were shown around the time of this interview. I remember for the first time the threads on hn felt unmoderated or overwhelmed [1]. Like someone sucked all the air out the room, metaphorically speaking. I don&#x27;t mean this as a criticism of dan or anyone else behind hn (you can even see he was actively trying to flag the worst offenders), but I just wonder what it was like behind the scenes for hn that day, how prevalent that sort of thing is, how concerned mods should be of that sort of thing in the future, etc.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=19632086" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=19632086</a>
rossdavidh超过 4 年前
Especially appreciated at this time of year, and extra extra appreciated at this time in the four-year cycle.
brian_herman__超过 4 年前
Thanks Dang! I love your work this is a great place for discussion. Hopefully my comments are not too shitty.
zadkey超过 4 年前
Wherever you are dang, we appreciate you, and want to thank you for helping make this a wonderful community.
chrisco255超过 4 年前
Thanks HN moderators! I think HN has one of the most balanced systems for moderating discussion on the web!
darkerside超过 4 年前
Lovely article, and a terrific final line. Summing up the cleverness, inanity, ambiguity, and camaraderie that I only seem to find on the internet.<p>Thanks mods for all you do, that which we see and that we don&#x27;t.
ignoramous超过 4 年前
It is also lonely work to be commenting on Hacker News on pages that do not make the front page.<p>Anyhow, for dang and stcb (founder market fit!), I believe, with abuse in online communities on the rise, is an opportunity to dust up that YC application (stamp of approval!) and apply with a startup idea that can be repeatably (software eating the world!) sold to other companies grappling with this problem (product market fit!) unless they agree to a merger (acquihire by Stripe incoming!). Mark my words, this is going to happen someday.
outworlder超过 4 年前
I got slapped around by a large trout, I mean, by dang, once.<p>Rather than getting annoyed, as would often happen elsewhere, I was ashamed. Because dang was right and I was wrong.<p>Thanks for that.
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ericjang超过 4 年前
Thank you, dang! Having to read so many pages of ceaseless bickering and techno pedantry must take a toll on the psyche. I appreciate all that you do!
platz超过 4 年前
&gt; What provides relief at a community level is when people find ability in themselves to acknowledge truth in what the other is saying.
Razengan超过 4 年前
When I first discovered HN, it was like a breath of fresh air compared to Reddit etc.<p>I have since lost faith.<p>HN likes to masquerade as some sort of upscale establishment, high and above the petty squabbles of Eslewhere, but in the end this place too devolves into a predictable echo chamber just like the rest of them, when it comes to any topic on which people have varied opinions.<p>This is not a place for dissenting views (such as this comment). This community does not brook any disagreement, because this service is not designed for it.<p>This did not happen overnight; for more than a year I have been watching perfectly fine comments getting buried in the gray for not siding with the prevailing mob on divisive topics. Even neutral, soft-spoken stances get struck down.<p>One can now reliably predict what the majority of comments are going to be like, just by reading the title of a post.<p>I&#x27;ve brought this up several times with dang, but apparently you&#x27;re not able to appreciate these problems until you try participating as a regular user.<p>And let&#x27;s not even mention the awful UI design with its vendetta against eyes, low light and small screens.<p>HN is broken, and one of the major indicators of a broken service is a tone-deaf management who continues to insist that everything is Working As Intended.
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guru4consulting超过 4 年前
Thanks Dang for all your hardwork in maintaining HN to be a wonderful and sane place in internet. I always worry and wonder how HN can stay this way in future. I hope you, Sam, and other moderators write a journal of your thoughts, all the lessons learned in moderating HN.. that could help future moderators.
neilv超过 4 年前
I love this article, and it&#x27;s one of the things I point colleagues to, every time I introduce them to HN.
anoncow超过 4 年前
Thank you dang! It&#x27;s been 7 years since I moved away from Slashdot. HN has kept me sane and informed.
xbar超过 4 年前
Sometimes I worry I operate more like a wasp than a bee, here. Anyway, great story and coverage.
cedricd超过 4 年前
Thanks for all the work you do Daniel! I don&#x27;t know how you manage it all.
birdyrooster超过 4 年前
Thank you dang for helping me to see the light and stop creating flame wars.
rdiddly超过 4 年前
Props to the Mod Squad. What they&#x27;re doing is working. An army of bots couldn&#x27;t do it better. Never underestimate the power of anthropogenic cognitive input, a.k.a. people thinking about stuff.
felix12777超过 4 年前
You&#x27;re not alone. We read and learned so much from you. And your moderation makes our knowledge hunt simpler. I&#x27;m wondering what would be your next milestone to make HN more useful?
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tehjoker超过 4 年前
I appreciate dang&#x27;s moderation. It&#x27;s generally fair and doesn&#x27;t discriminate based on viewpoint. Flame wars are pretty tame here and usually devoid of personal attacks.
part1of2超过 4 年前
&gt; site’s anti-abuse systems, many of which Bell and Gackle have written themselves.<p>That sounds interesting! How were these built? In the same Arc language? Any chance this can be open sourced?
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remirk超过 4 年前
Unfortunately the site doesn&#x27;t let me read the post until I login or disable &#x27;my adblocker&#x27;, which I don&#x27;t have enabled.
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Shared404超过 4 年前
Dang, the moderators here do a really good job.<p>Thanks for everything!
xtiansimon超过 4 年前
Cool write up. I love HN
GreeniFi超过 4 年前
Thanks Dang!
kuroguro超过 4 年前
Paywall bypass <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;bbzan" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;bbzan</a>
soulofmischief超过 4 年前
Thanks, dang. &lt;3
KingFelix超过 4 年前
THanks dang!!!!!
A4ET8a8uTh0超过 4 年前
The one thing I did notice in the article is that there is a a forum dedicated to outrageous things HN says. I mean, I always knew this is a public forum and whatnot, but I thought it has less mainstream appeal, which is the reason the conversation don&#x27;t devolve easily into name calling if fallacies don&#x27;t work ( or fallacies are called out for what they are ).<p>edit: made it more generic
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antepodius超过 4 年前
HE DOES IT FOR FREE
toxik超过 4 年前
To dang the mang!
secondcoming超过 4 年前
Condé Nast&#x27;s CMP is not GDPR compliant.
bra-ket超过 4 年前
Thanks for flagging flame trolls like us.<p>People tend to get carried away in a heat of discussion, but eventually return to the mean of civility after cool-down period.<p>Other places just impose ban frivolously, which doesn&#x27;t help long term, bans destroy the community, methinks.<p>Moderate moderation like yours is the way to go, and I&#x27;m not saying it as a kiss ass.<p>Edit: dang, what moderation tools do you think could be helpful. What part of your job can be automated via ML&#x2F;NLP?<p>What is your least favorite, repetitive or time consuming manual algorithm as a mod?
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PestoDiRucola超过 4 年前
The greatest thing I took out from this article is the @shit_hn_says twitter account. Absolutely hilarious!
blackflame7000超过 4 年前
If you Unban me things would be slightly less lonely!
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laksdjfkasljdf超过 4 年前
Now only if they published &quot;The Lonely Work of Writing for Hacker News, only to be shadow banned or sent away with a Typing Too Fast Message After You Put in the Work&quot;
mcguire超过 4 年前
&quot;<i>N-gate, a satirical Web site with the slogan “We can’t both be right” (a NAND gate is a kind of logic gate that only outputs “false” if all of its inputs read “true”), offers a weekly summary of Hacker News discussions, dubbed “webshit weekly.” The N-gate entry about a Hacker News discussion of a Times article on the crashes of two Boeing 737 airliners, in Indonesia and Ethiopia, is typical. “Discussing a pair of crashes that killed almost three hundred and fifty people,” it reads, “Hacker News can’t decide whether the failure was one of user experience or branding. Other Hackernews”—as it calls commenters—“think that this plane would have worked better if it were designed by programmers with a tendency to work late for free. A majority of the comments are Hackernews incorrecting one another about FAA regulations, avionics, and lift.”</i>&quot;<p>That&#x27;s brilliant! :-D I&#x27;ll have to check out N-gate.<p>Oh, this post? Typical newyorker puff piece, too long to read and unrelated to technology. Someone should flag it.
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creativityEng超过 4 年前
Please stop being selective.<p>Hyperbole is hyperbole, even if you like the message.<p>My biggest issue are the double standards.
alexashka超过 4 年前
Moderation is great.<p>Making changes that reduce the need for moderation are even better.<p>If you were to ask yourself: how much <i>more</i> could we be doing with a big community of people who are mostly highly educated and technical?<p>Is forums in the form we&#x27;ve had them since 1990 the optimal medium for a community?<p>I don&#x27;t think anyone would say yes and yet I don&#x27;t see any effort on behalf of the people who run this place to experiment and do anything remotely interesting.<p>The moderators on here do an admirable job but it ultimately feels to me like they&#x27;re cops who are being asked to arrest people for smoking a joint. The solution to better policing is less policing, more community via better laws, the solution to better moderation is less moderation, more community, via better use of technology.<p>For a place that talks about new, this place feels exactly like what I had 20+ years ago elsewhere.
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