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Urbit Precepts Discussion

73 点作者 dedalus超过 4 年前

15 条评论

praptak超过 4 年前
<i>&quot;Specifically, we say that the sort of simplicity that matters is the sort that makes it easy to reason about stuff.&quot;</i><p>This comes from a project which uses loobeans, because booleans are too mainstream. <i>&quot;In short, use _() to turn a loobean into a boolean, __()to go the other way.&quot;</i> Thank you for making it easier for me to reason about stuff.
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renewiltord超过 4 年前
I genuinely made an effort to understand this platform, including going to their offices to write some code during one of their events, and I felt like a complete programming novice. Had to implement floating point using their primitives before I could do something and stalled on that.<p>I think this is a thing that if it takes off like Bitcoin I won&#x27;t be mad that I couldn&#x27;t capitalize because I literally don&#x27;t know how to. At this point I&#x27;ve given up on it.
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dpc_pw超过 4 年前
If you have troubles getting into Hoon, the Hoon for Regular Programmers <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hackmd.io&#x2F;IYd4RkpBQVqQTehmJeoxRw" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hackmd.io&#x2F;IYd4RkpBQVqQTehmJeoxRw</a> I made might be a good start to break the initial novelty barrier.<p>Yes, some aspects of Urbit are obscure, and the post is more aspirational than stating the current state of Urbit&#x27;s codebase. But it is real, it works, it keeps getting better and is fun to use.
lisper超过 4 年前
If you&#x27;re wondering whether there is something of value hiding underneath all of the obscurity and if it might be worth your time to do a deep dive, IMHO the answer is a resounding no. There is nothing hiding in Urbit other than a deliberately obfuscated computing model, of the same stripe as brainfuck, but with (again IMHO) very different motives. Brainfuck is obscure purely for the sake of being obscure, in the spirit of a puzzle or other intellectual challenge. Urbit has more sinister motives, not least of which is to separate fools from their money by selling them &quot;real estate&quot; in the Urbit cyberworld. The obscurity is there to conceal the fact that there is no there there, to entice people into investing time and effort into it, and then keep them sucked in by leveraging the sunk cost fallacy. It is a tactic taken directly from the playbook of con men and cult leaders through the ages.<p>What <i>is</i> worthwhile (IMHO) is to read some of Curtis Yarvin&#x27;s (the founder and designer of Urbit) writings and compare them to the writings of L. Ron Hubbard, particularly bootlegged copies of the &quot;secret&quot; teachings of the &quot;church&quot; of Scientology, not for content, but for <i>structure</i>. To my eye, there are deeply disturbing similarities.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.unqualified-reservations.org&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.unqualified-reservations.org&#x2F;</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.xenu.net&#x2F;archive&#x2F;ot&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.xenu.net&#x2F;archive&#x2F;ot&#x2F;</a>
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natural219超过 4 年前
I don&#x27;t have much to add, although it&#x27;s kind of funny that every Urbit-related discussion on Hacker News revolves entirely around some quirky social object from 5 years ago, a general statement of bewilderment, or some rehashed judgment on MM.<p>I don&#x27;t see any comments related to any of the system theory in this rather long and well-thought-out post.
pgt超过 4 年前
<i>looks up meaning of &quot;precepts&quot;</i><p>Not trying to be snarky, but I&#x27;m obviously not smart enough to understand what the Urbit project is about.
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bee_rider超过 4 年前
&gt; For example, humans are much better at learning languages compared to even simple mathematics. Even those who are &quot;good at math&quot; are objectively much better at languages, in terms of how much complexity they can absorb.<p>Is this actually the general consensus? I think this is wrong. I am mediocre at math, but I can write it, and then verify that it is correct, and then it is quite abstractable and transferrable. Conventional languages handle fuzzy input better, but they do that by allowing ambiguous parsing..<p>&gt; A14: Deterministic beats heuristic.<p>&gt; Heuristics make it hard to give precise safety guarantees, so you should only use them when you don&#x27;t guarantee much.<p>I think this is overly broad. If you can run a heuristic and then validate the results in a way that provides a guarantee, that can often be just as good, right? You&#x27;ve still got the bound, you just had to wait until after the computation to get it. Sometimes you&#x27;ll get a failure to validate instead, but that should be rare if the heuristic is good. Anyway, all our programs are relying on the heuristic &quot;hardware usually works.&quot;<p>I mean, nobody loves heuristics, but we keep coming up with them, so that must be a sign, right?
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MaanuAir超过 4 年前
OK, I have to ask this time : could someone ELI5 what Urbit is &#x2F; could be useful for?
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dustingetz超过 4 年前
&gt; F: Real Software. Not all software matters. Any software which wouldn&#x27;t exist on Mars isn&#x27;t real.<p>Is it true that mars has neither lambda calculus nor category theory? From what I&#x27;ve read, Urbit is meant to be a boolean – it&#x27;s either mathematically perfect and succeeds, or it&#x27;s not and it fails. And it appears it&#x27;s not perfect. Do I have it right?
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sergiomattei超过 4 年前
I, for the millionth time, tried to go into the documentation to understand how Hoon works.<p>My TLDR: there’s streaks of absolute brilliance, particularly in the OS level. But it’s all so intentionally obfuscated with a dash of elitism thrown on top.<p>I think the most frustrating part was reading the Hoon tutorial (Hoon is their high-level programming language) and not understanding a single word. They use completely new terms, strange syntax &amp; then throw in the casual “See? It’s that easy!”. Not even a comparison anywhere to traditional languages for reference (not that it’d help at all anyways)<p>Never again.
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neomindryan超过 4 年前
“[I]n many ways nonsense is a more effective organizing tool than the truth. Anyone can believe in the truth. To believe in nonsense is an unforgeable demonstration of loyalty. It serves as a political uniform. And if you have a uniform, you have an army.” -- Curtis Yarvin
crb002超过 4 年前
For urbit to be relevant it needs a libc and coreutils. Even Rust doesn&#x27;t have a solid coreutils yet.
mmastrac超过 4 年前
Urbit feels more like an ARG than a serious project. You need to buy into what feels like an entirely new language and religion.<p>It has some real TempleOS vibes.
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rstarast超过 4 年前
I hoped to find a TLDR in the non-discussion version: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;urbit.org&#x2F;blog&#x2F;precepts&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;urbit.org&#x2F;blog&#x2F;precepts&#x2F;</a><p>But that&#x27;s also too long and meandering. :&#x2F;
zacharyvoase超过 4 年前
I&#x27;m not going to take advice on what is &#x27;wrong&#x27; or &#x27;correct&#x27; from a document that says &quot;The halting problem says that it&#x27;s impossible in general to even determine if a piece of code will finish without running it.&quot;, which is a gross misstatement of the halting problem.
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