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Privacy matters even if “you have nothing to hide”

456 点作者 freddyym超过 4 年前

27 条评论

inanutshellus超过 4 年前
I really like Social Cooling&#x27;s take on privacy (<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.socialcooling.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.socialcooling.com&#x2F;</a>).<p>SC&#x27;s take (paraphrasingly, of course) is that without privacy, you&#x27;re only rewarded for astroturfing your life &amp; feigning a blandly successful life without pot holes.<p>The Social Dilemma (Netflix docudrama)&#x27;s take on it -- that facebook-et-al don&#x27;t sell &quot;your data&quot; they sell &quot;a guaranteed change in your behavior&quot; -- is also a pretty damn powerful message.<p>This website&#x27;s &quot;nobody cares but they shouuuuuld!&quot; baseline argument is not very effective, IMHO. These guys have the right idea -- giving access to privacy tooling -- but this post should&#x27;ve been more focused on education from the get-go. e.g. &quot;We know you feel powerless about privacy. That&#x27;s why we built [x resource]. Claw control back.&quot;
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bad_alloc超过 4 年前
Whenever somebody argues having nothing to hide I ask:<p>1) Where were you last night?<p>2) How much money is in your bank account? Do you have any debt?<p>3) What is your Debit Card PIN&#x2F;account password&#x2F;...<p>4) What is your address? Your families address?<p>5) Can I see your key?<p>And so on. Everybody needs to proctect themselves and potentially others attached to them. There is a good reason for these questions being awkward and inappropriate.
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ChrisMarshallNY超过 4 年前
They are absolutely correct, as was a commenter that explicitly described what &quot;privacy&quot; means.<p>The issue is that corporations, like Facebook, have some very sweet &quot;desserts&quot; to entice people to abrogate their privacy. Alternatives have always given great privacy (spinach), but little in the way of a replacement for the &quot;candies&quot; that Facebook offers.<p>Facebook is <i>incredibly</i> valuable, and can afford to hire vast armies of engineers and psychologists, all dedicated to getting their &quot;product&quot; (that&#x27;s users) to make themselves more &quot;productive.&quot; Think farmers, giving hogs higher-protein, better-tasting food.<p>Until alternatives can provide a better &quot;dessert&quot; experience, and only offer spinach, then the vast majority of users won&#x27;t come to them.
lawn超过 4 年前
I&#x27;ve started to ask &quot;What about others? Don&#x27;t they have the right to privacy?&quot;.<p>For example if you&#x27;re gay you might not want everyone to find out. Or if you&#x27;re into some weird kinky stuff. Or even better if you live with a hidden identity because you&#x27;ve witnessed against organized crime.<p>It&#x27;s fine to give away your personal privacy, but it&#x27;s harder to throw other people under the buss (if you&#x27;re capable of empathy as most of us are).
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hooande超过 4 年前
The point is that the majority of people live boring lives and don&#x27;t have enough wealth to be a valuable target. I certainly fall into this category. I&#x27;m not important or interesting enough that anyone is going to look into me. It&#x27;s possible that one day I&#x27;ll become very important and then I&#x27;ll wish that I had kept various embarrassing things from getting out. It&#x27;s also possible that I&#x27;ll become a billionaire. Neither outcome seems likely enough for me to change my daily behavior.<p>People are generally not willing to endure even the slightest inconvenience for the sake of a philosophical concept like privacy. I&#x27;ve seen people make big changes in response to widespread negative outcomes (ie, coronavirus), but I couldn&#x27;t imagine a similar response to an intangible issue like potential privacy violations.
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nineplay超过 4 年前
&gt; The overwhelming majority of people do not care about privacy. They ask why they should care if they have “nothing to hide”<p>I have never heard anyone say this though it&#x27;s a common internet strawman. Certainly there are people who don&#x27;t care much about their browser cookies or the information they share on Facebook, but it doesn&#x27;t mean they have &#x27;nothing to hide&#x27;. They just disagree on what they need to keep private.<p>I can&#x27;t say I worry about cookies at work where I&#x27;m only browsing tech sites.
MaxBarraclough超过 4 年前
A rather perfunctory post in my opinion, it doesn&#x27;t offer much insight into how we should think about privacy.<p>If you don&#x27;t mind a heavy-going read, I recommend these papers by Solove: <i>&#x27;I&#x27;ve Got Nothing to Hide&#x27; and Other Misunderstandings of Privacy</i> [0], <i>Conceptualizing Privacy</i> [1], <i>A Taxonomy of Privacy</i> [2].<p>See also this HackerNews discussion on the <i>nothing to hide</i> argument from a few months back. [3]<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ssrn.com&#x2F;abstract=998565" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ssrn.com&#x2F;abstract=998565</a><p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ssrn.com&#x2F;abstract=313103" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ssrn.com&#x2F;abstract=313103</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ssrn.com&#x2F;abstract=667622" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ssrn.com&#x2F;abstract=667622</a><p>[3] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23707411" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23707411</a>
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pg_bot超过 4 年前
A better way to get the point across with people who claim &quot;they have nothing to hide&quot; is to ask them &quot;do you want to give away your ability to hide something&quot;. Everyone&#x27;s future is uncertain, and even the most transparent of people among us may come into circumstances where they would want some information to remain private. If you give away your privacy you don&#x27;t just give it away today, it&#x27;s gone forever.
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pantelisk超过 4 年前
(from FabioAEsteves). &quot;Don&#x27;t confuse privacy with secrecy. I know what you do in the bathroom, but you still close the door.&quot;
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mmillin超过 4 年前
One of the most effective pieces of media I’ve seen in favor of privacy is Surveillance Camera Man [1]. While I don’t support what the guy behind the camera is doing, the videos he has evoke a stronger reaction than any logical argument I’ve heard against “having nothing to hide.”<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;mP5ZVPwP7bg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;mP5ZVPwP7bg</a>
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pw6hv超过 4 年前
Nothing to hide is a very relative concept. How many times it happens that something a famous person says or writes is completely decontextualized and thus the message that passes from their words is not what they wanted to convey?<p>The same thing can happen to anyone of us if our private life is looked with the eyes of another person.
tolbish超过 4 年前
If you have Android, go to Settings -&gt; Privacy -&gt; Permission Manager and double check the permissions granted to the apps on your phone. You would be surprised at what is there...why does a musical tuner app need to know my location??
_iyig超过 4 年前
&gt;Our privacy is eroding. [...] The war is not lost, however.<p>Steven Rambam would probably disagree. He&#x27;s a private investigator who&#x27;s given many excellent talks on privacy at Hackers On Planet Earth (HOPE):<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=FHwl6AyL6js&amp;t=10m20s" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=FHwl6AyL6js&amp;t=10m20s</a><p>He goes into exquisite detail on the ways in which private info is shared, sold, amalgamated, and analyzed by private and public entities, and how law enforcement uses (and abuses) these resources. That particular talk is from 2016, so things are probably even worse now.
chrisweekly超过 4 年前
See also Cory Doctorow&#x27;s &quot;Little Brother&quot; book series -- esp the new one, &quot;Attack Surface&quot;. It provides a rare combination of accurate technical details, fairly plausible scenarios, and approachability &#x2F; suitability for a broad audience.
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solarhess超过 4 年前
We want a society that respects free will and freedom from coercion. Privacy is necessary to achieve that end. Let&#x27;s focus on achieving that end.<p>Security experts spent 2 decades arguing for privacy. Very little has changed. For most people, privacy is not an end in itself.
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showmypost超过 4 年前
What I often miss in privacy matters conversations is a little talk about how we think about the future when data collection is happening today.<p>We assume that we keep progressing and not stepping back into our dark past. But is that realistic?<p>The person you are today might be respected and legal (in the sense of a country&#x27;s law or society). But within the next 5 years, there could be a different kind of government, one that gradually reverses your rights. And suddenly the facts about you (each one of them already collected today through your browsing habits or followings&#x2F;followers interests) can expose you, your family or friends, and even worse they could put you or them in danger.
activatedgeek超过 4 年前
Wow! Black Mirror&#x27;s Nosedive (Season 3 Episode 1) [1] is straight out of reality.<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.imdb.com&#x2F;title&#x2F;tt5497778&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.imdb.com&#x2F;title&#x2F;tt5497778&#x2F;</a>
jccalhoun超过 4 年前
I ambivalent about online privacy. One one hand, I use ublock origin and privacy badger but on the other hand, last year facebook suggested I join a group for progressive asian christians. (I am not asian or religious) and although I&#x27;ve had an Amazon account for years, their recommendations to me are still terrible (I have turned off adblocking on facebook and amazon because I&#x27;ve ran into issues using them with it enables so I just gave in). So all the data they have on me doesn&#x27;t seem to have done them much good.
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LatteLazy超过 4 年前
Also, everyone has something to hide.
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matz1超过 4 年前
I would rather privacy to not matters, why? Because hiding information incur cost and inconveniences.<p>The only reason i may care about privacy is because the information can be used to hurt me.<p>What need to be solved is the issue of &quot;information used to harm&quot; instead of hiding the information(privacy)<p>What is the real issue of want to lock my bathroom door? Because someone could hurt me while I take a shit, but if that issue can be prevented, I wouldn&#x27;t need bathroom door to be locked.
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MeinBlutIstBlau超过 4 年前
The worst part about the concept of having &quot;nothing to hide&quot; is in the US you get tried by a jury for certain criminal cases. If you have something that a lawyer can&#x27;t paint as illegal but clearly is not, it doesn&#x27;t matter what your rights are. The jury is sending you to prison. Even if you didn&#x27;t commit a crime.
Razengan超过 4 年前
&quot;What do you have to hide&quot; is such a bullshit form of victim blaming, thrown around by entities who don&#x27;t understand or value the concept of consent.<p>No I don&#x27;t fucking like you looking up shit about me that I didn&#x27;t explicitly mean to share, and I don&#x27;t owe you an explanation.
k__超过 4 年前
Interesting topic.<p>I think, most people have something to hide but they think they could hide it even if the circumstances getting harder.<p>If things are hard to hide and you can still manage to hide them, you will be questioned even less. Because who would go through all that trouble?
mark_l_watson超过 4 年前
Some people act like the war on corporate (and government) surveillance capitalism is lost.<p>I think that is the wrong attitude. Create friction by whatever means fit with your life style and work flow.<p>I do simple things like delete all cookies in all of my devices at least once a week, use the Duck Duck Go browser on iOS and iPadOS (I only use laptops for coding so I just use Safari and Firefox on my Mac and Linux laptops), disable location tracking as much as possible, and I use ProtonMail and Proton Calendar.<p>As someone once said, if you have nothing to hide, then you don’t have a life.<p>Personally, I believe that surveillance capitalism, with creeping neoliberalism and neoconservativism pose an existential threat to any semblance of democracy. Maybe democracy is a lost cause? I don’t believe it, and I am willing to put up some fight to at least try to preserve it.
maram超过 4 年前
&gt; The overwhelming majority of people do not care about privacy. They ask why they should care if they have “nothing to hide”.<p>This is what I kept hearing from many people repeatedly. And I did a little experiment.<p>I bought an aged twitter account just to tweet a thread about privacy and see whether people care! )before iOS 14 was released) And I got 55,000 total engagements!<p>Some loggers are even selling (blogs with paywall) steps to turn off privacy settings!
LeviIsaac超过 4 年前
*&quot;PRIVACY&quot; IS LIKE &quot;the environment&quot; – it&#x27;s about too many things to be useful, so everybody ends up trampling it for a host of petty reasons. Leading to a world that&#x27;s degraded and hostile, and that would never have been chosen had the consequences been made clear.
Blikkentrekker超过 4 年前
Many a man that says he cares about privacy also doesn&#x27;t really care, to be honest.<p>One thing that has always irked me is the carelessness by which a man may give out, and is expected to give out, his full name.<p>Almost everyone has accepted that this is a bad idea on the internet, but in corporal social interaction full names are given out as if they be blowjobs, and so much information can be uncovered from a man&#x27;s name.<p>It needs some serious revisiting and consideration how this works and I think in today&#x27;s modern æra we probably need to do away with a single unified name for all purposes and allow citizens to operate under pseudonyms depending on the setting, at a minimum to keep one&#x27;s professional and social life more separate.<p>Another issue is visible faces in public. My jurisidiction on the eve of the <i>corona pandemic</i> actually passed a lot to ban full-face covering, worded neutrally, but everyone knew it was about certain Islāmic garments. Supposedly it was necessary that every citizen&#x27;s face be publicly recognizable, yet now we all cover it with masks to no problem whatsoever.<p>Even without a pandemic, a man should have the right to obscure his face in public and be unrecognizable for whatever reason he might desire.
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