TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

We rebuilt Corewars and used it to teach Computer Science students in India

99 点作者 aramachandran7超过 4 年前

11 条评论

bemmu超过 4 年前
I injured myself ~20 years ago because of Corewars (well mostly stupidity, but Corewars was involved).<p>I wrote a little evolution routine that would take some corewars code and randomly change instructions around to see if it couldn&#x27;t evolve a more successful program this way.<p>I let it run for hours and hours, and it did come up with short programs, and I was eager to see how it would continue. It happened that I needed to install a new light fixture in the same room as the computer... can you see where this is going?<p>Well, I didn&#x27;t want to turn off the simulation, so I figured that if I instead just turn off the lights, then even without flipping the breaker for that room, I could be sure there would be no live wires leading to my new light fixture.<p>I was standing on a long stool and was about to start screwing in the light fixture to the ceiling wires with a lustre terminal and bam, I was hit with 220 volts.<p>I thought the only outcomes from getting electrocuted would be to either die or survive, but I discovered a third thing that can happen: I lost a bunch of color in my skin, and it never came back.<p>Lessons? Be careful with electricity, and try not to get too obsessed with Corewars.
评论 #25562479 未加载
评论 #25566682 未加载
评论 #25563004 未加载
评论 #25564201 未加载
waknuk超过 4 年前
Corewars, the Redcode programming game, is still around and active.<p>There are on-going tournaments (&quot;hills&quot;) of which my favourite is the 94nop hill (&#x27;94 rules, without pspace).<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.koth.org&#x2F;lcgi-bin&#x2F;current.pl?hill94nop" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.koth.org&#x2F;lcgi-bin&#x2F;current.pl?hill94nop</a><p>It has been in action for approximately 25 years.<p>Some reference sites: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;corewar.co.uk&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;corewar.co.uk&#x2F;</a><p>And warrior library: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;users.obs.carnegiescience.edu&#x2F;birk&#x2F;COREWAR&#x2F;corewar.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;users.obs.carnegiescience.edu&#x2F;birk&#x2F;COREWAR&#x2F;corewar.h...</a>
评论 #25576841 未加载
cubano超过 4 年前
Corewars is a great introduction to getting your ass kicked by other programmers who are both way smarter and way more into the game than you are.<p>Reminds me of when I tried dipping my toes into the online Starcraft world many years ago...
pmontra超过 4 年前
&gt; Corewars proved itself really, really hard. Learning the assembly commands and how they edited the A and B values of each memory cell, understanding how the processes were executed and how data was stored was incredibly challenging for students to wrap their heads around.<p>This surprised me. I wrote a Corewars system in compiled Basic for the Sinclair QL when the game became popular. Writing it was not particularly difficult and the toy machine code was very simple. Maybe it was the context: we were used to look at bits and assembly instructions, we&#x27;re not anymore.
评论 #25564137 未加载
评论 #25563266 未加载
mncharity超过 4 年前
&gt; we’re thinking a little bit about a Git Version Control or github-esque software for storing, documenting, sharing and iterating on curriculum<p>That could be wonderful.<p>There&#x27;ve been attempts at creating sites for customizing OER texts. But creating communities is hard. Especially as a closed-source VC startup.<p>It might be nice to support transclusion. Sort of the textual equivalent of importing a code library. So one might say &quot;insert here, <i>that</i> introduction to topic X&quot;, and have it track someone else&#x27;s iterative progress on introducing X.
评论 #25576823 未加载
aramachandran7超过 4 年前
Adi here - Thanks all for the advice, comments, support, and tips on ... not getting electrocuted(?)!! It&#x27;s been a while since I&#x27;ve worked on the Corewars in India project so I&#x27;ll answer some of your questions the best I can :)<p>Have been an HN lurker for ~1 year and it&#x27;s super exciting for my first post to hit the front page! Looking forward to posting more interesting projects in the future!
anta40超过 4 年前
CoreWars is probably the most interesting programming game ever made.<p>Yes, I&#x27;ve played Zachtronics games like TIS-100, Shenzen I&#x2F;O, Exapunks. No doubt those are super fun addictive games. As a programmer who still ocasionally write assembly code for fun, nothing beats CoreWars, though :)
primitivesuave超过 4 年前
I love your story and am glad to see the next generation of computer scientists thinking about education. It&#x27;s a huge problem that is nowhere close to solved. I worked as a founder in the ed tech space for around six years and sold two profitable companies, so hopefully I can give you some insight after checking out the actual game.<p>I really think you need to introduce each concept sequentially with periodic reinforcement, as it is impractical to expect any student at any level of education to read through an entire embedded Google Doc with instructions before playing the game. I sincerely believe you could take this concept to an actual product if you work on the engagement and adaptive learning aspects.<p>Just to get this out and validate the concept is an achievement in itself. I worked on all kinds of failed prototypes before finding one that worked. I am sure you guys are going to do great things!
评论 #25576776 未加载
noisy_boy超过 4 年前
I think the introduction can benefit from breaking up the instructions into bite-size&#x2F;progressively-difficult sections with optionally videos demonstrating them.
yorwba超过 4 年前
&gt; we decided to move forwards with a game based software that:<p>&gt; Would have a low ‘barrier of entry’<p>&gt; Be easy for students from any background to pick up<p>&gt; Be visual and simplistic to wrap your head around<p>&gt; Have some level of a competitive &#x2F; addictive nature and well defined metrics of success<p>...<p>&gt; ... For the frontend, we had to create a clear visualization of what the processes were doing, and also had to build a UI that allowed for intuitively creating programs in Redcode. The latter was especially important for us as the goal for this project was to require as little technical experience as possible, and we also knew that Corewars was a challenging game.<p>This sounds like a typical case of listing your requirements (low barrier to entry, easy to pick up, simplistic to wrap your head around), but picking something that doesn&#x27;t satisfy those requirements (a challenging game) while thinking that you can make it work somehow (build a UI to make it more intuitive).<p>I&#x27;m not surprised they ran into a problem with that approach.<p>&gt; ... Before deployment, we’d assumed that Corewars could be learned and played by students at a semi-competitive level within a sitting. Even with the beginner mode that featured a scoped back set of assembly commands and high visibility into the game’s processes, it took Adi an hour and a half of 1:1 teaching time within the groups to get them comfortable with the game. We can estimate from this testing it would take students ~3 hours to learn the game individually, and another ~3-4 hours of logical challenge questions to get to a competitive level.<p>(I think those numbers are more likely to be underestimates, except for students with a lot of prior knowledge.)<p>My high school CS teacher assigned writing a Corewars interpreter as a project, likely because he thought it would be a fun way to expose his students to assembly language. I did enjoy it, but most other students were already pretty lost just trying to understand how programs were executing in the reference implementation, let alone writing their own interpreter.<p>I think something like AntMe ( <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;wiki.antme.net&#x2F;en&#x2F;Main_Page" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;wiki.antme.net&#x2F;en&#x2F;Main_Page</a> ) would&#x27;ve been a better choice of programming game (I only have experience with the two my CS teacher tried on his students, so it&#x27;s likely I&#x27;m missing something better): the game world is an abstraction of physical reality, so it&#x27;s not hard to visualize, and there&#x27;s a variety of tasks of different complexity (from just making the ants walk around like LOGO turtles, to foraging for food, to waging war against other ant colonies).
评论 #25576898 未加载
评论 #25562659 未加载
mncharity超过 4 年前
&gt; we’re thinking a little bit about a Git Version Control or github-esque software for storing, documenting, sharing and iterating on curriculum<p>&gt; Most of the professors we talked to [...] appeared mostly ok with the status quo.<p>Don&#x27;t underestimate how wretched our own system is. Or how widely that&#x27;s underappreciated. And thus how awesomely large the potential for improvement. Even if societal payoff is unclear. We&#x27;re educationally leaving <i>a lot</i> on the table.<p>Compared with systems with an even greater emphasis on rote learning, yes, we&#x27;re better at creativity and problem solving. But...<p>Numeracy? There&#x27;s almost a century now of professors, across several fields, complaining to their field&#x27;s journal, about PhD candidates without a feel for reasonable numbers. And there&#x27;s a funny famous example of an ideal-gas-law chapter question, that persisted for many editions, years, and much use, with numbers describing <i>solid</i> Argon. Ok, so maybe just a typo? And whole lot of student and professorial mindless plug-and-chug? Have you <i>ever</i> seen a question, where it was the <i>students</i> responsibility to judge which simplifying ideals were valid to apply? We just don&#x27;t do that. We could, but we don&#x27;t. It&#x27;s not a thing. So students just can&#x27;t do that. We&#x27;re <i>toy</i> problem solving and innumeracy.<p>Firm grasps? A wizzy teacher of intro genetics at a first-tier university, was asked what they would most like improved about their incoming students, and replied, a firmer grasp on central dogma. Something that can be taught in primary school. But firm grasps aren&#x27;t something we do well.<p>Robustly integrated understanding? Versus Trivial-Pursuit collection of factoid fragments? Ask first-tier astronomy graduate students &quot;a 5-year old asks, what color is that hot ball, the Sun?&quot; and then &quot;and sunlight?&quot;, and you can expect a wrong answer to the first, and right to the second. Sometimes followed by a pause, and a &quot;that doesn&#x27;t make sense, does it?&quot;. Two incompatible factoids, perhaps first learned in kindergarten, seemingly colliding for the first time, two decades later in grad school. And of the few who do get it right, half-ish (but small N, and at an institution strong in astronomy education research), half-ish report having learned it in a class on common misconceptions in astronomy education, rather than their own, atypically extensive and successful. After all, most all of the most-used introductory astronomy textbooks also have it wrong. And then Kahn Academy makes videos based on textbooks, and surprise... not. We don&#x27;t do integrated understanding.<p>How can textbooks be so bad? Science education content is a very distinct thing from science, or even from science education research. It&#x27;s under very very different selection pressures. And has nothing like science&#x27;s infrastructure and culture. Physics education research folks tell a recurrent story, of physics colleagues who are solidly empirical in their work, but in teaching? &quot;My <i>trusty gut</i> says it works!&quot; A very large textbook company onboards its science education writers with the reassurance that it&#x27;s ok you&#x27;ve a BA and no science background at all, because there&#x27;s a &quot;scientist&quot; on call for consults. Expecting science-like properties of science education content seems to me a scope-of-competence inference error. Like &quot;You&#x27;re a Scientist? Then you&#x27;ll know &lt;arbitrary topic&gt;&quot;, or &quot;You&#x27;re a Doctor? Yes, of medieval french literature. Good, I&#x27;ve a question about my surgery&quot;, or &quot;My local TV meteorologist explained why climate change isn&#x27;t real&quot;. So why would you expect astronomy textbooks to get the color of the Sun right? Why would they? No one is going to be embarrassed in front of their peers, or fail to get tenure, by getting it wrong. Science education has &quot;science&quot; in the name, and some overlap in individual personnel, but nothing like the social constructs which get us from the work of individual researchers to science and its aggregate properties.<p>On a more upbeat note, when MIT created a VR cell biology sim, gathering domain expertise by pulling in researchers for interviews, there was a problem... getting the researchers to leave. So despite oft-cited meager funding and lack of incentives, there seems at least a possibility pulling in expertise, if project pragmatics and goals have a right shape.<p>Fond memories of fiddling with Core War after the article in Scientific American.