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School or Prison

708 点作者 nickburlett超过 4 年前

54 条评论

meekrohprocess超过 4 年前
A fun anecdote from my youth near a US seaboard was that our elementary and middle school buildings were designed by the same person who designed a few prisons around the area.<p>When I bounced around cities later in life, I was surprised at how many of my peers said the same thing as a conversation piece.<p>Maybe they used the same governmental bidding process. &quot;Needed: a building. One food preparation and eating area. Hallways suitable for lining up and proceeding in rows with many small rooms. One yard with sporting facilities.&quot;
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throwaway998662超过 4 年前
As someone who&#x27;s been to prison and school, lots of comments here sound pretty tone deaf. Prison in the USA is really bad. Yes school is authoritarian, but most popular entertainment on prisons downplays how bad it really gets. Watch some interviews of people who have actually been to prison. Murder and rape is common (I saw it happen), you will get your possessions stolen under the threat of murder&#x2F;rape, you&#x27;ll probably spend 10-30% of your time in solitary confinement for reasons outside your control (torture according to human rights groups: I&#x27;ve been there, I&#x27;d prefer nonpermanent torture), you have to learn violence and get into fights with people who might be carrying a knife or else get taken advantage of indefinitely, ... It&#x27;s bad. And psychologically, you have no freedom whatsoever: no you cannot poop or drink water whenever you want to. You can only poop when your cellie isn&#x27;t around (1-2h&#x2F;day). You will be abused by prison staff (false accusations, physical abuse, food deprivation, ..)<p>The whole thing is an abomination. It serves no useful purpose to society to subject most criminals to prison: it doesn&#x27;t serve as a deterrent (based on talking to ~50 prisoners about this), it only radicalizes them further against &quot;the system&quot;, making it easier for them to break further laws.<p>Why don&#x27;t we have more outrage against this outdated institution created out of 1600 era values?<p>The amount of human suffering it creates... It&#x27;s astounding. Most prisoners would probably rather a super old school punishment like chopping off their arm over the prison sentence they get. And it would be more effective.
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ThePadawan超过 4 年前
I did quite well by measuring &quot;overall area of ground level windows&quot;.
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jamespwilliams超过 4 年前
In the UK our prisons often look nicer than our (state) schools. Many of our prisons are quite ancient, whereas many of our state schools are 1960s monstrosities.<p>For example:<p>* <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hidden-london.com&#x2F;wp-content&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;2018&#x2F;04&#x2F;geograph-4430981-by-Dr-Neil-Clifton-HMP-Scrubs-742.png" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hidden-london.com&#x2F;wp-content&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;2018&#x2F;04&#x2F;geograp...</a> vs <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;upload.wikimedia.org&#x2F;wikipedia&#x2F;commons&#x2F;4&#x2F;47&#x2F;James_Hornsby_Comprehensive_School.jpg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;upload.wikimedia.org&#x2F;wikipedia&#x2F;commons&#x2F;4&#x2F;47&#x2F;James_Ho...</a><p>* <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i2-prod.mirror.co.uk&#x2F;incoming&#x2F;article1185483.ece&#x2F;ALTERNATES&#x2F;s615&#x2F;Usk%20prison" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i2-prod.mirror.co.uk&#x2F;incoming&#x2F;article1185483.ece&#x2F;ALT...</a> vs <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;upload.wikimedia.org&#x2F;wikipedia&#x2F;commons&#x2F;3&#x2F;33&#x2F;Cefn_Saeson_Comprehensive_School_-_geograph.org.uk_-_223167.jpg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;upload.wikimedia.org&#x2F;wikipedia&#x2F;commons&#x2F;3&#x2F;33&#x2F;Cefn_Sae...</a><p>* <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ukhumanrightsblog.com&#x2F;wp-content&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;2020&#x2F;07&#x2F;HM_Prison_Exeter_-_geograph.org_.uk_-_1062012.jpg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ukhumanrightsblog.com&#x2F;wp-content&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;2020&#x2F;07&#x2F;HM_...</a> vs <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;upload.wikimedia.org&#x2F;wikipedia&#x2F;commons&#x2F;thumb&#x2F;c&#x2F;c5&#x2F;Wetherby_High_School_%281st_January_2019%29_002.jpg&#x2F;300px-Wetherby_High_School_%281st_January_2019%29_002.jpg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;upload.wikimedia.org&#x2F;wikipedia&#x2F;commons&#x2F;thumb&#x2F;c&#x2F;c5&#x2F;We...</a>
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cyberbanjo超过 4 年前
<p><pre><code> Is it surprising that the cellular prison, with its regular chronologies, forced labour, its authorities of surveillance and registration, its experts in normality, who continue and multiply the functions of the judge, should have become the modern instrument of penality? Is it surprising that prisons resemble factories, schools, barracks, hospitals, which all resemble prisons? </code></pre> Michel Foucault
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hombre_fatal超过 4 年前
In one of the largest high schools in Texas, we weren&#x27;t allowed to leave campus, we couldn&#x27;t even take our lunch out of the double doors and eat our sandwich outside.<p>It&#x27;s something I absolutely despise about our contemporary culture.<p>I live in Latin America now and envy the kids for getting 45 minutes free at lunch time to hang out outside, socialize, buy from the street vendors that will gather at that time, maybe run a quick errand.<p>My parents point out that they had a high school experience in the US more like the Latin American one. Something is changing about the US, and it&#x27;s rotten.<p>There&#x27;s a book that presents a good overview of some of these changes: &quot;The Coddling of the American Mind: How Good Intentions and Bad Ideas Are Setting Up a Generation for Failure&quot; (by Greg Lukianoff and Jonathan Haidt).
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noncoml超过 4 年前
What’s the point being made here? That if you take a picture of a building from a specific angle it’s difficult to tell the function of the building?
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MarcScott超过 4 年前
Before I go off topic, very cool and interesting app. I was surprised by the number of times I got it wrong.<p>Now then...<p>There&#x27;s a lot of people crapping on schools and teachers in this thread, and as a former teacher and spouse of a teacher I&#x27;d like to point out a few things:<p>Schools and teachers provide a vital service. Not only do they educate our children, they babysit our children, and the pandemic has shown us how vital that aspect of the service is. I&#x27;ve anecdotally seen many parents on social media complain about having to look after their own children during the day.<p>Schools need arbitrary and often draconian seeming rules, such as refusing toilet breaks, not allowing food or drinks in a classroom, or enforcing strict dress protocols. If you truly knew how manipulative a group of children can be, when ganged together you&#x27;d understand this. Toilet breaks are often abused, with children skipping class to, for instance, vape in the toilets. I&#x27;ve had classes where I&#x27;ve spent my break cleaning up chewing gum, spilled drinks and crumbs from students sneaking snacks. When kids aren&#x27;t in uniform, or under a strict dress code they&#x27;ll push the limits of what is acceptable and additionally bully the poorer children that can&#x27;t afford the latest fashions.<p>If we want schools to ease up on such restrictions then you need to invest in more teachers and other staff. I&#x27;ve had science classes with 35 students all with Bunsen burners merrily flaming, flammable and corrosive chemicals in beakers at their desks, and syringes or pipettes (also read as water pistols). Or my engineering class with 20 soldering irons all on, pillar drills being operated, while a couple of kids are etching circuit boards. Try running that type of class without strict rules and you&#x27;re liable to see injury, loss of employment, a lawsuit and possibly prison.<p>If I&#x27;d had smaller class sizes, or more staff in the classroom, I could have relaxed my rules. I&#x27;d know the kids better, have built up a more trusting relationship been able to monitor who was doing what with greater efficiency.<p>These are kids we&#x27;re talking about and they&#x27;re developing, experimenting, learning, and struggling to navigate a complex social dynamic in a very unnatural environment. Without rules in place, they&#x27;ll screw up. For God&#x27;s sake, how many of you &quot;adults&quot; have had to sign a code-of-conduct agreement before being allowed admittance to a tech conference or hackathon? Even grownups can&#x27;t be trusted.
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WoodenChair超过 4 年前
This reminds me of an essay that Paul Graham wrote that compares schools to prisons: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.paulgraham.com&#x2F;nerds.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.paulgraham.com&#x2F;nerds.html</a><p>&gt; Public school teachers are in much the same position as prison wardens. Wardens&#x27; main concern is to keep the prisoners on the premises. They also need to keep them fed, and as far as possible prevent them from killing one another. Beyond that, they want to have as little to do with the prisoners as possible, so they leave them to create whatever social organization they want. From what I&#x27;ve read, the society that the prisoners create is warped, savage, and pervasive, and it is no fun to be at the bottom of it.<p>&gt; In outline, it was the same at the schools I went to. The most important thing was to stay on the premises. While there, the authorities fed you, prevented overt violence, and made some effort to teach you something. But beyond that they didn&#x27;t want to have too much to do with the kids. Like prison wardens, the teachers mostly left us to ourselves. And, like prisoners, the culture we created was barbaric.
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geocrasher超过 4 年前
I get what the comparison is about, I do. But really- how many different ways are there to house hundreds of people in an institutional setting?
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highmastdon超过 4 年前
Just the idea of a school is worse than a prison: - it’s mandatory - closed confinement - not allowed to do what you want in that closed area - you’re being told what to do for at least 8-14 years - you’re being told when to pee - during the years there is no choice in what you want to learn And at the end of your school&#x2F;studies you’re asked to be creative and responsible
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joe_the_user超过 4 年前
It&#x27;s part of the larger situation that the buildings created by large bureaucracies all look about the same.
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throwaway2245超过 4 年前
I was surprised that this was relatively so easy: you don&#x27;t have to understand very much about the two types of buildings to spot important functional differences.<p>As other people have commented, space for windows is crucial. (And, at least 2 of the pictures had identifying words in different languages) I scored 10 out of 10 and the game bounced me out.
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OJFord超过 4 年前
I was pretty ready to upvote this, but then I scored 9&#x2F;10, (the one I got wrong had Chinese&#x2F;Mandarin writing on - another I got right kind of looked like a school but said HMP, I&#x27;m British, I know that&#x27;s Her Majesty&#x27;s Prison, so &#x27;swings and roundabouts&#x27;).
giantg2超过 4 年前
So... what&#x27;s the point of the site?<p>It&#x27;s just a bunch of buildings. The onea I saw could be labeled just about anything (hospital, office, court, etc).
ineedasername超过 4 年前
A more meaningful comparison would be bathroom privileges.<p>In prison you can pretty much poop or get a drink of water whenever you want. In school you need special permission, and hope the teacher wasn&#x27;t in a bad mood or that 3 other kids hadn&#x27;t needed to pee in the last half hour, meeting some mental quota the teacher has for the appropriate # of people that should have to use the toilet during a given period of time.<p>Seriously, it seemed like a revolutionary concept when I hit college and realized &quot;Hold on, I can just <i>get up &amp; go?</i>.&quot; Or that (absent computer labs) I could bring a cup of coffee or bottle of soda with me to class, and that common etiquette even allowed for a bit of food if it wasn&#x27;t noisy to eat or have a powerful smell.
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liquidify超过 4 年前
Could easily make one of these for a lot of hospitals too.
kirillzubovsky超过 4 年前
This is fantastic. I love how if you do it long enough, the results go way down, and after a while you can no longer tell, or be certain one way or another.
Wowfunhappy超过 4 年前
This is fun, but to the extent that it&#x27;s trying to make a statement†, most of the difficulty comes from the angles used in the photos. They just look like generic buildings.<p>You could make the same game out of &quot;school or doctor&#x27;s office&quot; or &quot;prison and bank&quot; and it wouldn&#x27;t be any more obvious if the photos were shot this way.
didibus超过 4 年前
Recently I thought about the educational structure and I wondered if we couldn&#x27;t do way better.<p>My idea was to make it much more like how paid for classes and work are.<p>Instead of grades, there should be classes happening of various levels at all times. And student should be able to apply for promotions at any point, where if they pass the test, they can get promoted to the next level. Grades should be secret from one another like salaries often are, so students shouldn&#x27;t feel like they compete with others, but only with themselves. And they should focus on working towards their promotions, with a 1:1 with the teacher where the teacher can tell them what they should focus on next and all to work towards their promotion.<p>That way everyone can go at their own pace, which can even be a pace that varies from time to time. Students don&#x27;t feel a competitive pressure. You don&#x27;t really have &quot;class mates&quot; in the sense that there&#x27;s much more churn at all time of who is currently in any given lesson. And you get more personalized feedback on how to reach the next level.<p>Also, schools shouldn&#x27;t be rated with how well their student performs, but instead by the diff of how much better the students became year over year. Like imagine a fitness studio bragging how their program makes you super fit, but they only accept people who are already super fit to join, doesn&#x27;t make any sense.
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Aunche超过 4 年前
In China, a lot of schools in poorer areas have bars with them, which makes them look like prisons. These aren&#x27;t highly competitive schools, so it doesn&#x27;t make sense for the bars to be for the students. Rather they&#x27;re to prevent people from breaking in and stealing the furniture.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;img.i-scmp.com&#x2F;cdn-cgi&#x2F;image&#x2F;fit=contain,width=1098,format=auto&#x2F;sites&#x2F;default&#x2F;files&#x2F;styles&#x2F;1200x800&#x2F;public&#x2F;images&#x2F;methode&#x2F;2018&#x2F;02&#x2F;12&#x2F;da1a2fea-0fd9-11e8-851b-21ca695cbae4_1280x720_220126.JPG?itok=7majAc8B" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;img.i-scmp.com&#x2F;cdn-cgi&#x2F;image&#x2F;fit=contain,width=1098,...</a>
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steffenfrost超过 4 年前
I thought this was a proposal to give convicted criminals the choice between prison or school.
dwd超过 4 年前
I think the only perceivable different is likely the size and placement of windows. Also prisons are highly unlikely to not have security bars or screens on every window (excluding a public entry foyer which is not part of the actual prison.
slavik81超过 4 年前
There&#x27;s a lot less barbed wire around these prisons than I&#x27;m used to seeing.
aarroyoc超过 4 年前
My philosophy teacher said that both prisons and schools end up being a panopticon because you want the same in both places: maximize the feel of power of the authority, don&#x27;t leave any place without surveillance,...
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echelon超过 4 年前
This is not very difficult. The design constraints of each are fairly unique. A few good heuristics:<p>- Windows: Few or many? Are they only on the top floor? Are they small? (Prisons don&#x27;t have lots of windows.)<p>- Bars on windows? (Dead giveaway for a prison.)<p>- Lots of security cameras? (Not the best indicator, but it weights in favor of prison.)<p>- Fences around parking lots? (Criminals might want to break into cars.)<p>- Is the name on the building large, inviting, and stylish? (School.)<p>I think the message being sent is more interesting than the &quot;game&quot;.
adav超过 4 年前
I wrote an essay for an English creative writing lesson comparing our school with prison. It led to a detention where I was asked to rewrite it...
ctulek超过 4 年前
You may like Peter Gray’s article on the subject: [1]<p>If you are more curious, I would also suggest his book titled “Free to Learn”<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.psychologytoday.com&#x2F;us&#x2F;blog&#x2F;freedom-learn&#x2F;200909&#x2F;why-don-t-students-school-well-duhhhh" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.psychologytoday.com&#x2F;us&#x2F;blog&#x2F;freedom-learn&#x2F;200909...</a>
mrslave超过 4 年前
&gt; common etiquette even allowed for a bit of food if it wasn&#x27;t noisy to eat or have a powerful smell<p>And then you graduated, started catching the train to your new job, discovered that many people do not reciprocate this standard, and there&#x27;s split drink, empty bottles, and undesirable aromatics on every train.
ulisesrmzroche超过 4 年前
I didn’t do so good here. 4 out of 10.<p>Schools really should be given a makeover. They do look too much like prison. But what, round corners? I dunno. I guess they’d look too much like giant iPhones.<p>Unrelated but in case the simulation changes theme to “post-apocalypse”, what’s better to use as HQ: the school or the prison?
et2o超过 4 年前
I just played and got 10&#x2F;10 right although a few were difficult. I don’t think they are all so similar.
oseph超过 4 年前
The secret is windows.
avs733超过 4 年前
So...government architecture is hard to place? I feel like this is meant as a commentary on the culture of schools but the outside of the building has nothing to do with the inside and is just designed by the lowest bidder to look fairly generically “place”
jchw超过 4 年前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;res.cloudinary.com&#x2F;schoolprison&#x2F;10_wwfagw.jpg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;res.cloudinary.com&#x2F;schoolprison&#x2F;10_wwfagw.jpg</a><p>You can read “学校” on this building, making it a bit easier than it should be. :)
ezoe超过 4 年前
This test biased toward the western building culture of school and prison. As a Japanese, I&#x27;m clueless on most buildings save for one image that was of Japanese high school and it literally says high school in Japanese.
foolfoolz超过 4 年前
my biggest complaint about schools at least in the US is they all are specially designed. they usually have an architect involved. it’s style is specific to the land it’s on. and each one is so expensive to build. then the community can show off its fancy school, great, it’s a snowflake<p>i would rather the state appoint an architect group to design like 5 model schools that are modular. and then any time a city needs to build one you just get to play some lego on the modular design. this would make school construction faster and cheaper and maintenance easier
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thrower123超过 4 年前
The prisons seem to have nicer outdoor grounds and recreation areas.
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Gravityloss超过 4 年前
By comparison, in the army during initial training I had flashbacks of kindergarten. We weren&#x27;t herded that much at school. Also the food was for some reason very similar.
EGreg超过 4 年前
Related: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;magarshak.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;?p=158" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;magarshak.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;?p=158</a>
gcheong超过 4 年前
I would take out or obscure the ones that have names in a non-English language. I was able to guess two knowing a little German and Japanese.
kylecazar超过 4 年前
There was a myth going around my university that the dorm blueprints used were repurposed prison designs. Never bothered to investigate.
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canjobear超过 4 年前
I got 9&#x2F;10. Not so hard. If the point was that they look indistinguishable, then the point was not made convincingly.
dehrmann超过 4 年前
One of the high schools where I grew up was rumored to be designed by a prison designer.
ineedasername超过 4 年前
I think this just shows that prisons often have nicer facades than some schools.
TedDoesntTalk超过 4 年前
I thought an obvious clue would be Windows or no Windows. I’m wrong.
ZainRiz超过 4 年前
A good heuristic:<p>If it has a ton of windows, it aint a school
Igelau超过 4 年前
I only got a 700. My school was rumored to by designed by prison architects, so maybe that&#x27;s why.<p>Can I flag the whole thread as off-topic? Geez, HN.
da39a3ee超过 4 年前
It was easy to get 10&#x2F;10.
barefeg超过 4 年前
Too easy
pashabitz超过 4 年前
Are we slave labor for ML data?
surajs超过 4 年前
So done with school
alisonkisk超过 4 年前
What&#x27;s the point of this? Schools and prisons are both buildings.
sahin超过 4 年前
Just a cool service
ARandomerDude超过 4 年前
Public school is a prison where both parents can abandon their children to be raised by strangers while the parents chase what they really love: money. We make ourselves feel better by teaching them a few worthwhile things during their minimum 13 years in lockdown, coupled with a massive public jobs program, but most of it is a waste of precious family time where parents should be teaching and loving their own children.
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