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Governments spurred the rise of solar power

133 点作者 jakozaur超过 4 年前

15 条评论

socrates1998超过 4 年前
The problem with this idea that we subsidized solar until it was profitable is not accurate.<p>Solar power doesn&#x27;t pollute and I would argue that all other forms of power that do pollute aren&#x27;t taxed nearly enough for it, with coal being the most obvious example.<p>Coal power sends an insane amount of carbon into the atmosphere. If we properly carbon-taxed coal, it would go out of business tomorrow. And that doesn&#x27;t even get into the environmental destruction that comes from strip mining.<p>Strip mining is when coal companies buy a whole fucking mountain and then destroy it piece by piece to remove the coal. How the fuck is that not good for the environment and our society after the coal is gone?<p>So, solar power really is a lot of cheaper than coal when you consider all the negative externalities that it brings.
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dm319超过 4 年前
I can&#x27;t read the article, but I think evidence like this is important when it comes to the whole idea of government subsidises impacting on free markets. The free market has become a bit of a religion for some (you can see in the comments here), and there&#x27;s this staunch divide between those that believe the free market will always come up with a humanitarian solution, to those that believe the government need to push things for it to happen.<p>My FIL was head of a large coal plant in the UK, and is very critical of renewable energies, their cost, the impact on the fossil fuel industry etc... It simply isn&#x27;t possible to have a conversation with him about global warming - he will simultaneously argue it isn&#x27;t happening and it&#x27;s natural and not caused by us. He might be an extreme example, but there is general scepticism of government subsidies here.<p>I&#x27;d love to see a study where researchers take things that are seen as good&#x2F;important&#x2F;essential to modern life and measure the amount of public&#x2F;government sponsorship that helped bring it about.
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jakozaur超过 4 年前
Another good read:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;rameznaam.com&#x2F;2020&#x2F;05&#x2F;14&#x2F;solars-future-is-insanely-cheap-2020&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;rameznaam.com&#x2F;2020&#x2F;05&#x2F;14&#x2F;solars-future-is-insanely-c...</a><p>Solar follow exponential cheaper trajectory with no signs of slowing down. Virtually all forecast underestimated the trend.<p>In less than a decade solar will be way cheaper than operating cost of gas or coal plants. It make sense to overprovision capacity and shut down pretty much anything that could be shut down during the day.<p>Plus cheap spurious electricity opens a lot of new frontiers.
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Darmody超过 4 年前
I didn&#x27;t read the whole thing because it asks for an account.<p>But I want to point something. While I think solar power is great and we should keep working on expanding it, we shouldn&#x27;t approach renewable energy as our only source.<p>Right now in Spain we had the worst snowstorm in decades and temperatures have decreased in the whole country. Around 80-85% of the solar panels are useless. Nuclear is at 100% and we&#x27;re burning coal like crazy. And electricity price went up 27%.
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jpgvm超过 4 年前
Oil and gas were&#x2F;are massively subsidized. Solar is winning because it turns out that at scale it&#x27;s just cheaper. Nothing beats cheaper.
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jMyles超过 4 年前
One odd thing I&#x27;m not seeing discussed frequently in threads about solar:<p>Where <i>are</i> the cheap panels and storage solutions?<p>I have lived in my bus for most of the past five years. I have a solar array on the roof (with lots of python glue[0]). And panel (and for that matter, battery) prices that I&#x27;m seeing today are no cheaper - and in some cases, a bit more expensive - than when I architected the system five years ago.<p>Is all the reporting about cheap solar somehow specific to grid-tied solutions?<p>0: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=tRp84BlFF94" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=tRp84BlFF94</a>
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ganafagol超过 4 年前
There ought to be a similar article about nuclear. Public funding for nuclear exceeds solar by orders of magnitude. Not just in the U.S.
LockAndLol超过 4 年前
Too late and nowhere nearly as much as they should&#x27;ve. Sure, they get credit for doing *something* but the free market proponents continuously operated against solar.<p>Praising them is like praising a reckless driver with a fat, greedy business dude in the passenger seat and people in the back staring at their phones, who decides to act normally seconds before an accident.
WarOnPrivacy超过 4 年前
&gt; Governments spurred the rise of solar power<p>Govs are in the business of broadly benefiting the public now? - And at the expense of fossil fuel shareholders who have handsomely paid for their legislative privileges?!?.<p>Where&#x27;s the honor in that?
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nabla9超过 4 年前
Solar power, Tesla, SpaceX it&#x27;s amazing what big government taxing individuals in mixed market society can achieve.
seddin超过 4 年前
Here in Spain you can get fined if you own too many solar panels or do not have a contract with an electricity company.
jrochkind1超过 4 年前
Nothing unusual about this, although it can be done wisely or foolishly.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theatlantic.com&#x2F;ideas&#x2F;archive&#x2F;2019&#x2F;11&#x2F;ethanol-has-forsaken-us&#x2F;602191&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theatlantic.com&#x2F;ideas&#x2F;archive&#x2F;2019&#x2F;11&#x2F;ethanol-ha...</a><p>If we are to survive and thrive on this planet, it would be good to do it more wisely.<p>In general, the &quot;free market&quot; can be easily overstated, it has ever been this way.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Mercantilism" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Mercantilism</a><p>Not to mention colonialism as a driver of early capitalist economy.
pjc50超过 4 年前
Paywalled, archive link is <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;nXJOd" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;nXJOd</a><p>The Economist is not a perfect newspaper, but they&#x27;re possibly the only non-specialist press that would dive deeply into &quot;what is a PN junction and how does it make electricity&quot;!<p>&gt; the oil shocks of the 1970s saw governments get interested<p>Solar thermal (not PV) was put on the roof of the White House by Carter, taken down by Reagan, and eventually ended up in a museum in China (!) <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.scientificamerican.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;carter-white-house-solar-panel-array&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.scientificamerican.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;carter-white-hous...</a><p>The same issue of fuel imports drove France to build a huge number of nuclear plants, which certainly worked but are now ageing out into a maintenance headache. As the Economist points out, economy of scale and accumulation of experience in manufacturing has worked brilliantly to drive down costs in solar (and also wind).<p>I myself got solar panels on my roof about 5 years ago, locking in a subsidy rate for 20 years. The government incentives to the renewables market have really worked brilliantly. It&#x27;s just odd how few politicians want to take credit for it.
bsenftner超过 4 年前
Considering how oil industry executives became élite wealth and moved into senior government positions globally, it is no wonder they did not make solar energy research illegal.
lanevorockz超过 4 年前
Not True ... The reason solar power is a usable today is due to natural evolutions of markets that made storing energy more viable. The search of long lasting batteries for mobile phones and electric cars. Governments had no intention of accelerating the obsolescence of fossil fuels but once you have better alternatives it&#x27;s really hard to suppress. Just think that in 2015 Tesla was struggling, war in the middle east over oil and the scandal of Germany &#x2F; fake CO2 calculations on german diesel cars.
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