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Berty: Peer-to-peer messaging app that works with or without internet access

386 点作者 mpsq超过 4 年前

28 条评论

jedahan超过 4 年前
&gt; Berty does not and will not need blockchain in its protocol<p>This is one of the first things I look for around decentralized communications+apps these days, and I am very happy to see no blockchain here.
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peter_d_sherman超过 4 年前
A fascinating idea, I wish you a lot of luck in this endeavor!<p>If I were going to go this route, that is, to engineer a network not dependent on the Internet -- I&#x27;d first go down to the most fundamental principle of WiFi, Bluetooth, ZigBee, EDGE, EVDO, LTE, etc. -- and that most fundamental principal is <i>RADIO</i>.<p>From there, I&#x27;d ask the question -- how can any device which implements one or more of the wireless protocols that we all know and love: (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Comparison_of_wireless_data_standards" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Comparison_of_wireless_data_st...</a>) be converted back to raw radio?<p>If it can be done, use that and design upwards.<p>If it can&#x27;t be done, then use the lowest abstraction level (above raw radio) possible that can be used for the device in question...<p>That&#x27;s the comm side of things.<p>The &quot;next job up&quot; is to figure out the logistics of user adoption, getting these radio devices to communicate, what bitrates to use, what access patterns to use, how do you get data over longer stretches (if there&#x27;s no user&#x2F;node to hop off), etc., etc.<p>But, quite the technical challenge!<p>Of course, you can &quot;cheat&quot; -- and use pre-made protocols&#x2F;software&#x2F;drivers -- which gets you the highest amount of abstraction (but the least amount of control).<p>SDR -- Software Defined Radio -- would seem to be a good middle ground between these two areas of abstraction...<p>I&#x27;d almost argue that if someone were to make the simplest of all SDR&#x27;s that could turn ordinary WiFi cards and devices into SDR, and couple that with a store-and-forward network like FidoNet or Bitnet (if anyone remembers those!), then they&#x27;d be in business!<p>Anyway, it&#x27;s a very interesting and challenging project!<p>I wish you the best of luck in this endeavor!
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jFriedensreich超过 4 年前
I really love every effort in this space and especially if making good use of ipfs, but to give an idea about how far this is from the maturity of lets say signal: the more mature parts of ipfs are just starting to become mainstream in the last couple of months. But Berty relies on the very experimantal database orbitdb that relies on the pretty experimental pubsub feature of ipfs that is to my knowledge nowhere near generally usable and scalable. I would consider berty and orbitdb as well as other projects relying on ipfs pubsub all very exciting &quot;future&quot; projects that are just waiting on ipfs to solve the technical challenges and as soon as the ipfs team is ready they will be ready too in a relatively short amount of time. But when that will be is hard to tell, all i know is that pubsub is experimental since early 2017 and my yearly tryouts so far always come to the conclusion that it cannot be widely used yet but will be key to a lot of ipfs applications and could lead to a breakthough for many usecases for ipfs.
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robotmay超过 4 年前
Looks interesting but from what I can tell currently isn&#x27;t available on app stores to immediately try out. It does at least have a nice logo which is ultimately enough to make me try something :p<p>I&#x27;d like to see the slew of new messengers coming out also address one of the few areas keeping people on Facebook: group event planning. There&#x27;s lots of places to chat, but not many alternatives for sharing and planning events with a wider group of people. Briar seems to offer blog and forum concepts, which is interesting, but everything seems to be lacking in the &quot;event&quot; aspect and that&#x27;s unfortunately a bit of a sticking point for a lot of Facebook users (it&#x27;s primarily what I use it for, still).
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KoftaBob超过 4 年前
This brings up a question I still haven&#x27;t gotten a clear answer to: why isn&#x27;t Signal peer-to-peer like this?<p>What is it about p2p that made it not doable, rather than Signal&#x27;s current setup where every message goes through a centralized server before reaching the recipient?<p>Would appreciate any insight.
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MayeulC超过 4 年前
Take a cryptokey routing-based network such as <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;yggdrasil-network.github.io" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;yggdrasil-network.github.io</a>, cjdns, hyperboria or (I think) TOR.<p>The crypto-addresses be used as contact information, and users can message each other any way they want: e-mail, netcat, a dedicated application, etc. End-to-end encrypted, no WAN connection needed on mesh networks.<p>Now, the hard parts are:<p>- Persistence<p>- Async communication when one of the hosts is offline.<p>- Multiple devices pertaining to the same user, with key revocation, etc.<p>The firsts are why I&#x27;m excited for things such as Matrix. I&#x27;m not sure about the last (and is there really a problem in the first place?)
sschueller超过 4 年前
Looks good and I&#x27;m excited where this leads but please remove items such as &quot;<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.shakebugs.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.shakebugs.com&#x2F;</a>&quot; from the android build [1]. If I want privacy I don&#x27;t want some bug reporting tool tracking me.<p>I also hope you will add this to fdroid although it will be hard with Reactive Native. A native android app would be preferred.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;berty&#x2F;berty&#x2F;blob&#x2F;master&#x2F;js&#x2F;android&#x2F;app&#x2F;src&#x2F;main&#x2F;AndroidManifest.xml#L59" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;berty&#x2F;berty&#x2F;blob&#x2F;master&#x2F;js&#x2F;android&#x2F;app&#x2F;sr...</a>
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zelphirkalt超过 4 年前
In the readme it says:<p>&gt; We want to contribute to the world of free, secure communication without fear of censorship and surveillance.<p>But their website does not work without allowing ampproject? Or so I thought! Apparently after 5s or so it does load content and displays it. Still kind of weird for them to go with amp stuff. Unfitting their goals.
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algorithm314超过 4 年前
Jami is a very good p2p messenger - teleconferencing app. There are still some bugs, but it is usable. The next version is probably going to have group chats.
jcun4128超过 4 年前
So I guess if it goes phone to phone by Bluetooth&#x2F;IR&#x2F;WiFi AP, then home to home by a meshnet-alexa size&#x2F;style device. The next part is the cross country&#x2F;continent. Maybe HAM(bad bandwidth) or some nice billionaire has free&#x2F;unmonitored satellites ha to replace the undersea cables.<p>Random side note: I was wondering how you could use space to store information. Like you use the stars as the canvas then change the incoming light as the write... Doesn&#x27;t make sense would get destroyed but yeah.
catwell超过 4 年前
It is super nice seeing Berty on the HN front page. I know the founder, who has done many things before among which initiating the Paris P2P meetup (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;p2p.paris" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;p2p.paris</a>), so I&#x27;ve been hearing about it for over a year now. Hopefully the app will be available to the public soon!
Vmody2超过 4 年前
Pretty cool to see non-crypto projects being built using IPFS.
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dreit1超过 4 年前
When will the cross platform driver be available for offline communcation. As it stands looks using the Berty will be restricted by Android to Android or iOS to iOS communication<p>Also what are the typical distant constraints in an offline environment
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schmorptron超过 4 年前
Is there a comparison anywhere between this, Briar, Session and (P2P-)Matrix? I love that there&#x27;s so much innovation in this space recently, but also really hope that any of them can really break into the mainstream.
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akavel超过 4 年前
How does that compare to Secure Scuttlebutt?
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LockAndLol超过 4 年前
I know people like harking on about phone number or email requirements, but how am I supposed to find my friends? Do I have to send them a message over Signal to tell them the name I picked on another app?
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exabrial超过 4 年前
It would be cool if there was a BLE -&gt; inter webs gateway that could be ran on something like a rpi or other very low cost common hardware.<p>LOVE the concept of this project though. Starred and keeping an eye on it!
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maverick74超过 4 年前
there is also Briar ( briarproject.org )<p>;)
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throwaway8822超过 4 年前
Store-and-forward messaging can be implemented on top of many networks: Internet, local wifi, bluetooth, usb drives, LoRa, and many more.<p>Why bundling together UI, message routing and network backends?<p>Why can&#x27;t we go back to layered software design?
gioscarab超过 4 年前
PJON could help: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;gioblu&#x2F;PJON&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;gioblu&#x2F;PJON&#x2F;</a>
zurn超过 4 年前
It&#x27;s not immediately apparent what platforms this is for. In the releases there&#x27;s at least Linux binaries available.
airbreather超过 4 年前
ok, i spent 5 minutes and i still have no info how it actually communicates? wifi, wifi radio, bluetooth, ultrasonic chirps, modulated light, all of the above?<p>i would have thought frst thing to say, it tends toi make me suspicious, but they look like good guys, just lacking some transparency at this stage.
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anigbrowl超过 4 年前
How does it differ from Briar?
intotheabyss超过 4 年前
Nice, pure cryptography at its finest.
etherwaste超过 4 年前
Like Briar?
georgyo超过 4 年前
The poster of this &quot;Show HN&quot; seems to have zero involvement with the development of berty.<p>I&#x27;ve been eagerly awaiting the release of berty for a few months now, but they have not made public the app yet. They have a closed beta, for a few months. And their build process for the android app is complex.<p>While berty is extremely interesting tech, I don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s quite ready to be on Hacker News yet.
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chovybizzass超过 4 年前
I applied for the qa role. you guys can stop applying.
jonas_kgomo超过 4 年前
ELIF: what does it mean without internet access? Does this mean without wifi I will be able to send messages?
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