Australia’s PM suggests Bing adequate if Google blocks searches

Here&#x27;s the full bill if you want to wade into it (PDF): [1]<p>This [2] may provide some helpful commentary.<p>From Google&#x2F;Facebook&#x27;s viewpoint, one of the more distasteful aspects which is rarely mentioned in most coverage is that they must give two weeks notice of algorithm changes to registered news businesses.<p>There&#x27;s a perception in some circles that this is a fairly unnuanced money grab by the government on behalf of Murdoch media[3]. A perception that was not helped by earlier drafts excluding the public Australian Broadcasting Corporation and SBS from the trough. Two organisations the current federal government is seen as being hostile towards.<p>As I understand it:<p>- The bill would not allow Google to simply drop Australian news sites from search results (hello Spain News!), hence really only leaving the option to block Oz altogether.<p>- There is no acknowledgement at all of the value search engines provide to media organisations by the links provided.<p>- The forced arbitration conditions are quite... forceful. (I&#x27;m not really across this aspect.)<p>A common nickname for our our Prime Minister among his detractors is &quot;Scotty from Marketing&quot; [4]<p>In summary, when you say, &quot;My way or the highway,&quot; perhaps you shouldn&#x27;t get pissy when they choose the highway.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;parlinfo.aph.gov.au&#x2F;parlInfo&#x2F;download&#x2F;legislation&#x2F;bills&#x2F;r6652_first-reps&#x2F;toc_pdf&#x2F;20177b01.pdf;fileType=application%2Fpdf#search=%22legislation&#x2F;bills&#x2F;r6652_first-reps&#x2F;0000%22" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;parlinfo.aph.gov.au&#x2F;parlInfo&#x2F;download&#x2F;legislation&#x2F;bi...</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gtlaw.com.au&#x2F;insights&#x2F;its-here-news-media-digital-platforms-mandatory-bargaining-code" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gtlaw.com.au&#x2F;insights&#x2F;its-here-news-media-digita...</a><p>[3] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;2BPLBIgKjN8" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;2BPLBIgKjN8</a><p>[4] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.lifehacker.com.au&#x2F;2020&#x2F;01&#x2F;where-the-legend-of-scotty-from-marketing-began&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.lifehacker.com.au&#x2F;2020&#x2F;01&#x2F;where-the-legend-of-sc...</a>

The fact that it is newsworthy to say something like this seems to indicate that Google is at least a de-facto monopoly in the search sector. It seems hard to argue against that when folks cannot even agree if there are any viable alternatives at all.... This is a huge problem that is only getting worse. I don&#x27;t really see any way to fix this outside of government trust-busting. (But I have little faith in the bumbling of modern politicians in Australia or anywhere else...)<p>Personally, I use DuckDuckGo for searching and find the experience to be better than Google, but YMMV.

I can&#x27;t imagine Microsoft is anymore interested in paying these fees than Google or Facebook is. I think it&#x27;s an empty threat, and likely its the Government trying to prove their serious (although, I suspect it won&#x27;t pass its next vote). What Microsoft gets out of it, not sure.

This is quite ridiculous. I’d say it’s obviously ridiculous but others may have a different point of view. The government there is eager to side with Murdoch and his friends for favorable coverage so that they can pocket money from this extortion stunt while disregarding the impact to its many many citizens. Suggesting Bing is good enough is stupid because if their citizens were to use it over google if google quits that market, what then ? Government goes after them and if it does what if Microsoft also gets out? And if government doesn’t then doesn’t that show to the world that it was personal with google? People shouldn’t be stupid. It’s a low bar to clear.

Is there anything that makes the following sequence of events unlikely?<p>1. google.com.au redirects to google.com<p>2. google.com stops indexing australian content<p>3. australians barely notice, except perhaps for the latency<p>4. australian content creators collapse<p>edit: 5. american content creators adapt and cater to their new audiences

Google has a bit of a problem here.<p>The majority of Australians are pretty indifferent&#x2F;apathetic here. Murdoch vs Google is Goliath vs Goliath, nobody cares who wins, everyone hopes they both get wrecked in the process.<p>The best outcome here is if Google stops linking to news organisations in Australia.<p>Zero fucks would be given and independent journalism would be able to grow in a healthy environment.

Does this mean that Microsoft (or its Bing subsidiary?) will not have to pay the same tax, even if it becomes the dominatn search engine in Australia? Or is it not an issue, because the relevant subsidiary of Microsoft makes no profit, and therefore the amount due will be zero?<p>I haven&#x27;t a clue here, I&#x27;m just surprised.

Not sure if anyone&#x27;s the same, but I find Google search the least sticky of their services, i.e. I could manage fine if forced to use Bing (probably not as good, but probably good enough), but I would really struggle if Gmail or Google photos access was axed in my region.

I&#x27;ve been using <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.runnaroo.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.runnaroo.com&#x2F;</a> on some of my devices for a while and I very seldom need to do the DDG equivalent of !g.<p>The name alone seems like something that Australians might like.

&gt; “Look, these are big technology companies. And what’s important for Australia is that we set the rules that are important for our people,” Morrison said.<p>When Morrison says &quot;our people&quot;, he means Rupert and Lachlan Murdoch.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.abc.net.au&#x2F;news&#x2F;2020-11-17&#x2F;scott-morrison-murdoch-media-like-a-team-turnbull-says&#x2F;12891218" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.abc.net.au&#x2F;news&#x2F;2020-11-17&#x2F;scott-morrison-murdoc...</a>

Is Bing going to be forced to operate under the same constrains as Google?

How does this new law work? If Google doesn&#x27;t want to pay media for content, couldn&#x27;t they just not have newspaper links in their search results? Why would they have to pull out of all the other things that people search for?

&quot;“Are you confident that alternate search engines are going to be able to fill a massive void left by Google and Australians won’t be left worse off?”&quot;<p>this is what a planted question looks like :-)

This is going to be a tough one. On one hand I absolutely hate how google is trying to strongarm this deal through their various properties. On the other hand, google pulling out of Australia will definitely impact a lot of businesses badly.

Someone in the US govt should write a bill that forces Fox News to pay Google&#x2F;Facebook&#x2F;Twitter for the cost of spreading misinformation on their platforms. Should equalize things quite a bit.

What I don&#x27;t understand from here is that even if MS were to take over, wouldn&#x27;t they be restricted under the same law?<p>ie. if its not favorable for MS, maybe they just want to ditch the country too?

Interesting explainer I saw by an Australian economics YouTuber (opposed to the new law):<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;zj2r948rUkQ" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;zj2r948rUkQ</a>

As an avid reader of dystopian SciFi even I think this is too much.

While this has been playing out a while in Australia and elsewhere, I think anyone who presupposed non-partisanship and openness by large social networks and other conduits of information knows after the Twitter, FB, YT and others’ hamfisted approaches to setting narratives dispelled that notion and gave reason to every government to review the influence these players have on the respective constituencies.

The steady eclipse of traditional media by Big Tech services has led the USA to a situation where a significant minority actually believe that Trump is a sort of superhero saving the world from pedophiles (QAnon) and a larger minority who really think the Democrat party somehow stole the recent presidential election, and that storming the Capitol is a reasonable response. The view from Down Under is that we need to avoid such civic disasters and propping up the traditional media is an essential part of that.<p>Like most people, I&#x27;m astonished at how social media mediated news seems to disable so many people&#x27;s bullshit detectors, but there&#x27;s no denying that it is so.<p>Anyone who wants to persuade Australians that their government should not go ahead with the planned regulation of FB and Google needs to come up with an alternative suggestion that would keep Australia&#x27;s democracy functional. I can&#x27;t see anything in the anti-regulation commentary on HN that passes this test.

Finally someone standing against tech giants. I don&#x27;t think it is unfair to expect companies to follow law of the land irrespective of size. Big tech giants should not expect &quot;US style&quot; operation everywhere. America is not entire world, just one country.

As an American I low key hope they block Google. I don’t want to give up my use but wouldn’t mind some extra competition in the search engine space.

As can be seen throughout its history, reflected in the nature of its seriously heinous press and Australians&#x27; love of outright propaganda over truth, Australians have never prioritized the development of a free and open society - so this should come as no surprise.<p>The only hope is that there are a generation of Australians who still understand why a free press and a free market are essential to open society - and that they will rise to the challenge of building a really viable, open Australian society.<p>However, given the predilection for shiny things and smashed avocado&#x27;s, we might have to wait a generation or two, to see these heroes arise. Lets hope these future Australians&#x27; don&#x27;t have to suffer the same fate as the Taiwanese or the Uigyurs in the quest for freedom ...

&gt; When I spoke to Satya the other day, there was a bit of that,” Morrison said while rubbing his hands together and referring to Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella.<p>I&#x27;ll bet there is.<p>Nothing like an incompetent governor willing to give you the keys to the castle if you bend knee and kiss a$$ for a few days first.<p>There&#x27;s probably a reasonable case for other players to get a piece of a pie that is pretty much entirely owned by google here, and they&#x27;d be stupid not to take it, especially as it positions them to challenge google in more lucrative markets in the future.<p>To be fair, this sucks for Australians and Australian businesses, and they&#x27;ll suffer for it; but, it is what it is. You speak with your votes; if you vote a$$ hats into power, don&#x27;t complain when they do this kind of stuff.<p>You reap what you sow.