YC is a cult

Actually there's a fundamental incompatibility between cults and startups. Cult followers tend to be people who want someone to tell them what to do. There are a lot of people like that, but they're the opposite of the kind of people who make good startup founders. What you want in a startup founder is the sort of tenacious independent mindedness that makes you start a new search engine in 1998, when everyone else thinks it's too late.<p>If the startups we funded were run by the kind of people who'd feel at home in a cult, they'd get creamed as soon as they hit the real world, and our returns would be terrible. A regular company could tend toward the cultish and succeed (some technology companies show signs of it), but a venture firm couldn't be, because its startups would lose in the market.

<p><pre><code> - People are put in physically or emotionally distressing situations; - Their problems are reduced to one simple explanation, which is repeatedly emphasized; - They receive unconditional love, acceptance, and attention from a charismatic; [sic] - They get a new identity based on the group; - They are subject to entrapment (isolation from friends, relatives, and the mainstream culture) and their access to information is severely controlled. </code></pre> To the extent that YC fits this definition, so does any intense and ambitious collaboration. Take the Manhattan Project, the Apollo missions, and some parts of the Human Genome Project -- they all fit criteria 1, 2, 4, and the first part of 5 to a much greater extent than YC ever does.<p>So it looks like we have a broken test function. (Though perhaps it's just missing a type-check -- maybe it's only supposed to be applied to religions.)

I love contrarian articles.<p>Not only is it fun reading a scathing criticism, (and I think he went too far in some ways and not far enough in others) the really funny part is watching the target audience digest (or rather, regurgitate) it.<p>There is a strange similarity between YC and a cult. You guys quote PG all the time like he's the next Buddha or something. YC is looked at as the only way towards making your startup happen. Sometimes around application time the posts get really out there as far as hero worship -- and Paul's said so himself.<p>Having said that, there's a LOT of dissension here as well. Lots of folks that have nothing to do with YC and just think Paul's a nice, regular schmuck like the rest of us. I know I'm here because of the crowd -- and by that I mean the larger startup crowd, not necessarily the YC bunch. This is the first board I've been on that has a long-running discussion about how single-arrow voting sucks, for one thing, or the role of contrarian comments in a healthy community.<p>So yeah, he's got a bit of a point. But it's mostly overblown, and I wouldn't worry about it. If you're 22 years old and don't have somebody to look up to? Then I'd start worrying.

Hilarious. Blatant linkbait, but hilarious.<p>Clearly he does not know many actual participants. Working 18 hour days for two months is not the norm.

It's sad to see this trollish content rising to the top of news.yc.

This guy is presumptuous, ill informed and appears to have a thing for blanket statements.<p>Hi, I'm currently in YC for the summer. Although I certainly don't speak for everyone in YC, I think I'm somewhat more qualified than the author who has never been in the program and who apparently receives his information from blog posts and hearsay.<p>Most of his assertions apply to startups or any intense forms of collaboration (as PC noted) in general. Although we work a significant amount of hours, it's not as if we never get out. I've gotten to know many of the other cofounders very well outside of YC. Additionally, is it really work if you enjoy what you're doing? I rather work 60-80 hours per week on something I like that challenges me, than 40 hours per week on something I'm disinterested in. As for the pure speculative, link-baiting stuff:<p>"Young, impressionable and inexperienced entrepreneurs are willing to sacrifice their health, happiness and creativity while pursuing wealth." This is the second company I've started. It's my business partner's second as well. Many of the founders in YC have worked at startups or run their own businesses before.<p>Happiness/Creativity? I went from working a 9-7 office job I wasn't interested in to working on my dream project.<p>Health? Due to increased schedule flexibility, I've actually been able to exercise more and eat better. I've lost a good 5 lbs.<p>"They receive unconditional love, acceptance, and attention from a charismatic..." You should have been at my team's first meeting; it was like this, but the opposite. Informal founder feedback sessions have been similar. The carebear environment the author described wouldn't work anyway - the VCs would destroy us.<p>"They are subject to entrapment (isolation from friends, relatives, and the mainstream culture) and their access to information is severely controlled." Isolation? My parents just visited this past weekend. I still keep in touch with all of my friends even if many of them wear the hat of beta tester. If anything, I've been able to keep in _better_ touch with my friends because they're all curious about what I'm working on. Talking about a startup is a lot more fun than talking about a 9-5 or 9-7 for that matter.<p>Without YC I'd still be at my same old job trying to work on our startup on the side. This is not only difficult to do, but very slow as well. YC essentially moved everything up a year or two and allowed us to work on what we love while being surrounded with a bunch of brilliant people to bounce ideas off of and anxious investors to present to. What more could two cofounders originally from Ohio ask for?

If you love what you do and are good at it, programming is only somewhat more mentally exhausting than playing computer games all day (and I do relatively complicated stuff: algorithms and numerical math in C++ and ML - don't ask about details, I like my relative anonymity).<p>The "burnout" happens when there is no reward in sight, or worse: you work hard for many months, produce good results, then your PHB shits on them for political reasons (so you wouldn't get too stuck up), or is just too stupid to appreciate your work.<p>I'm not a web programmer, and I tend to be very skeptical of much of what PG writes (especially the last few years), but I think independent enterprise is the way to go for the more gifted and hard-working people.

<p><pre><code> - People are put in physically or emotionally distressing situations; - Their problems are reduced to one simple explanation, which is repeatedly emphasized; - They receive unconditional love, acceptance, and attention from a charismatic; [sic] - They get a new identity based on the group; - They are subject to entrapment (isolation from friends, relatives, and the mainstream culture) and their access to information is severely controlled. </code></pre> You mean just like doing a PhD or building a company or heck, being a geek about anything in life. A baseball fan who can recite stats about everything and everyone for the past 100 years is, by this definition, part of a cult.

Does YC require its participants to practice polygamy? I checked the FAQ but this wasn't covered.

First there was "All YC startups produce unoriginal second-rate stuff" (unfortunately, I don't have the link handy). Now there's this. It is impressive how YC-hate is evolving.

Obviously the guy is trolling, but a useful question does emerge: Are people taking pg's advice without critically evaluating it? If they do not then all is fine and dandy but if they do, the guy has a point (albeit poorly presented).

The best definition of a cult that I've heard was from some guy on NPR (no clue who, I was driving and came in mid-program)... he said, quite simply, that a cult is any organization who's ulterior motive is to have sex with minors. I'm sure there are counter-examples, but I think it fits pretty well.

So what?<p>I sometime doubt why I've been living my life most of time by ignoring mainstream culture, being isolated from my relatives, with a few really good friends far below Dunbar's number that will help each other without questions, working 60 to 80 hours on non leisure stuffs, and living in the opposite side of the earth to my birth place since I was 15. I even joined a quasi-cult organization once to see how does it work. It has been a quarter of century and I love it. Because I do what I want to hack in my life and I learn from PG that beside that I also need to figure how to make something that people want! And I still have some chance to know some very attractive females and keeping myself fit.<p>At least I feel much better now because I know I can survive under inhuman conditions so I just need to persist till I get my share of glory. Of course I may die tomorrow but I didn't live a life that feel pressure from peers, pointing hair boss and failed marriages.

Four parts ridiculous, one part true.<p>1. Young and inexperienced? <i>That's the point</i>. This is how you gain experience. Impressionable? Another word for "quick learners".<p>2. Sacrificing happiness? Not if it feels good to work on something you believe in.<p>3. Sacrificing creativity? Since when is it not creative to create a new business?<p>4. "18 hour days for two straight months" -- from the point of view of "hard work," big deal. Good stress makes you stronger. You're alive all 18 hours anyway -- if you believe in what you are doing, and you take care of yourself along the way, then all that effort can actually <i>add</i> to your energy levels.<p>5. But the key line is "if you take care of yourself." The effects of sleep deprivation (and eating shit for food) are real. If think and act as though you're invincible, you really can burn out, and that is &#60;a href="<a href="http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=69097" rel="nofollow">http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=69097</a>"&#62;a hellish experience&#60;/a&#62;.

I guess maybe I'd be more concerned about this accusation if YC wasn't one of the smaller players in the space. Simply put, people will go and make bad and self-harming decisions all the time (god knows I've done it), it's a constant. If YC <i>is</i> an unhealthy environment–and I see no evidence that it is, but perhaps the kool-aid is in my brain–then it's a relatively small one.<p>I mean, most people here realize they don't need ycomb, right? It's one of many ways to get some initial funding, but it's certainly not the only way or even the normal way. It's more of a publicity stunt for a new startup than a real viable path to large-scale funding (if funding is what you need).

He got at least one thing wrong: YC folks don't work hard to make money. Many of them work really hard, but I don't think it's to make money.

IMHO (based on my reading, and based on my observations of a certain organization where I went to college), the distinguishing feature of a cult is the exploitation of <i>unanimous peer pressure</i> (cf. the Asch conformity experiment) to make everyone follow <i>one charismatic dictator</i>.<p>E.g. you give all your money to The Guru because that's what a loyal follower of The Guru does, and all the people you hang out with are loyal followers of The Guru. All the people you hang out with are loyal followers of The Guru because they love you so much and they have so many things for you to do together and go on all these lovely weekend retreats where you are told that if you hang out with someone who's not a loyal follower of The Guru then it would be very bad for your karma.<p>The unanimity and the single leadership make cults different in kind, and not just different in degree, from other kinds of organized goal-seeking human groups. And I really don't see how the cult model, seen in this way, applies to YC.

"5. They are subject to entrapment (isolation from friends, relatives, and the mainstream culture) and <i>their access to information is severely controlled</i>."<p>Yet on Hacker News, the recruiting grounds of said cult, this post (information contrary to the teaching of said cult) has ascended to the top?

The solution is to apply the YC principles that fit for you and still live your life and to not get overly caught up in the message and let it block out outside reasoning.

Speaking of the news.yc community and not of the founders, what if the perception of cultism keeps the quality of postings here from deteriorating rapidly? Most of the level-headed ones here do not buy into that percept and vote and comment independently and intelligently. The inevitable band of pg worshipers do amplify the noise, but could that be the cost of keeping the unaffiliated, median slashdotter away?

The cylinder only fits in the circular hole.<p>You can't assume that you always have a cylinder or a cube to fit into the mold. Heck, you may end up with an icosidigon and have only a triangle to try to shove it into.<p>As amazing as the Y Combinator idea may sound to some, you also have to have a healthy sense of skepticism and apply it appropriately to every situation and oppourtunity that comes your way. Make it work for you, not you for it.

Didn't yamada cover this ground about a year ago?<p><a href="http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=51989" rel="nofollow">http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=51989</a>

I am surely going to be a part of this cult.

Linkbait, and not even original. People were calling pg a cult leader years ago.

As Jason said it elsewhere, "If U want to work 9 to 5, Go work for Starbucks"

And several years ago the same thing was said about Schools.

<i>I am opinionated, concerned about environmental issues ... surrounding software and data access.</i><p>We've got to stop dumping the used ones and zeros into the oceans! It's melting the ice caps!

Isn't how much people hate you a sign that you're doing something different and right?<p>I'm certain I read that somewhere.

Olympians put in 18 hours a day - so they're cults too?<p><a href="http://www.magazine.utoronto.ca/08summer/olympics.asp" rel="nofollow">http://www.magazine.utoronto.ca/08summer/olympics.asp</a><p>"...Talk of "magic" swimsuits obscures the incredibly hard work swimmers such as Russell, a second-year pharmacology major, actually put in. Before I went to university it would be 20 hours a week, weights and swimming. When I went to Indiana [his first school] my training stepped up to 30 hours of weights, swimming and dry land, though that is really excessive for me. Now it’s about 18 hours..."