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How computer programming became the worst choice of career

47 点作者 abunuwas大约 4 年前

41 条评论

onion2k大约 4 年前
People who don&#x27;t earn much think they chose badly because they&#x27;re not getting rich. People who chose jobs that pay well think they&#x27;d be happier in something more creative. People doing creative work wish they&#x27;d chosen something more stable. Practically everyone thinks they chose the wrong job. Most of them are right in the sense that they might actually be happier doing something else, but also most people could chose 50 different careers and still not find one that suits them.<p>Without wishing to go all &quot;internet philosopher&quot;, none of us is introspective enough about what makes us truly happy to know what we actually want. We define &quot;happiness&quot; by looking at other people and being envious of what they have - if only we had what some other person has we&#x27;d not be miserable any more. But <i>everyone</i> is doing that. It doesn&#x27;t work. Read some Michel de Montaigne or Immanuel Kant and figure out what you want out of life, and then get it on your own terms.
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godid大约 4 年前
I initially thought this article was satire - poking fun at how easy programmers really have it on balance. But no, it’s just a contentless, envy fuelled moan from a position of privilege.<p>Take a step out of the FAANG-SV-HN salary distortion field for a moment, and the London financial one too for the matter, you will clearly see that 55k is a great salary in the UK. Far more than the average.<p>If you picked a career that you don’t innately enjoy because you thought it would make you rich, and it’s not, then that’s on you.
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wsc981大约 4 年前
He could probably go freelancing and earn a whole lot more.<p>I earned a lot more as freelancer when working in The Netherlands compared to permanent employee. And I feel in the UK it&#x27;s probably much the same situation. In The Netherlands it&#x27;s quite easy as freelancer to earn say 100.000 EUR a year and probably more. If you&#x27;re a bit smart with taxes, you can have a very good standard of life, you&#x27;d be in the top 10% for sure.<p>And even better: just do this a few years, save money and then move to some country with lower standard of living. You could probably retire before reaching 40 years of age if you started freelancing in your early 30s and be careful with your spending (if your single). With a family (children) the situation would be a bit more complicated.<p>And yes, you could try to make some site or app to earn additional income outside of your job.
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superbcarrot大约 4 年前
How quickly does the mind go from &quot;my career is stagnating and finding better jobs can be hard&quot; to &quot;this is the worst choice of career&quot;. One of them is a valid concern, the other is a gross exaggeration that people who actually have bad jobs would laugh at.
shawticus大约 4 年前
The guy who is complaining about having to learn new technology is complaining about not making enough money?<p>I would never hire him.
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currymj大约 4 年前
you always hear this about the UK.<p>It seems like generally speaking, science and engineering lacks prestige over there compared to being a lawyer or banker?<p>Possibly due to the “two cultures” problem combined with the English class system.<p>I have no idea if this is accurate or not, and the English class system is pretty opaque to me.
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barnacled大约 4 年前
I work in the exact same industry as him and earn considerably more. As always coding jobs are not fungible and finance coding jobs are not fungible either (a .net back office programmer is not going to earn the same as a front office quant dev doing C++).<p>I should know, I worked my ass off to transition from one to the other via a startup (which I sold shares in for $500k) and tech firm.<p>I didn&#x27;t just accept my initial job was the end of my career (my first job I was on £19k, first finance job £24k or so), I made things happen in spite of being set back massively due to serious issues at uni which was not my fault (long story).<p>So unfortunately my sympathy is zero. If you don&#x27;t like it, work at changing it, or shut up.<p>Also the idea that programming is not in demand is truly laughable. I interviewed 200+ people throughout my career. Trust me the issue is not on the demand side.
WheelsAtLarge大约 4 年前
Programming is becoming more like factory work. You are expected to continuously produce at a certain pace and quantity. But, as programmers know, things are constantly changing and are expected to keep up. It&#x27;s stressful and challenging.<p>From my point of view the fix is for programmers to create their own side project early on with the goal of making it a full time job.<p>I don&#x27;t see the industry changing. I see the situation getting worse for programmers. As the number of people trained as programmers gets larger, companies will have more people to choose from while paying less and expecting more. So, the programmers have to change and adapt.
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dakial1大约 4 年前
That article is very specific to the author&#x27;s case, and to be sincere, it seems to be most because of the author&#x27;s fault than the career he chose. He says coders are badly paid and it is getting worse but this is not true for many regions and niches. For example, a backend Java Programmer specialized in Commerce Platforms (Hybris, SFCC, etc) earns very well in Latam because naturally after the pandemic there is a rush after the online channel and we have a shortage of professionals. I&#x27;m sure the same just applies to different programming areas and regions around the globe. Another great advantage of the coder profession is that you can do it from anywhere in the world, so if you make the effort of learning which country&#x2F;job pays the best (and accept english speaking coders) you can live in a place with low living costs earning a very decent salary (I mean, director level salary). I met many coders in Brazil that work for companies in the US and earn 5x what a local company would pay for the same job&#x2F;skill. So it is just a matter of better exploring the options you have and lose the neighborhood job mindset. It&#x27;s not the career it&#x27;s you.
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cmrdporcupine大约 4 年前
I never got into this career for its earning potential, but because I just always loved programming. Somehow I&#x27;ve ended up in a FAANG making a lot of money, but the actual &quot;programming&quot; (writing code) portion of my job is small. I feel like there&#x27;s some paradox there, but really, I just want to complain on the Internet. If you asked me at 10 what I wanted to be when I grew up it was &quot;computer programmer&quot; and here I am, though I took a very zig-zagged path to get there (no degree, and half a philosophy BA for example). And I&#x27;m living far from where I grew up and my parents and brother, because this is where the work is. etc.<p>So I&#x27;m not sure how much sympathy I have for this article. I kind of understand the tone, but frankly, my dad was a machinist, another kind of skilled labour job and until he got a job teaching it, he was miserable and mistreated and I got to see, growing up, what real blue collar sweatshop work was like and what real job dissatisfaction, underpay, severe long term unemployment, etc. was like.<p>The money I make is nice now, and I have a nice life, though I feel trapped. Maybe I can retire early and make skis and walk in the woods with my dog more.
bsaul大约 4 年前
I can easily see how someone could end up in such a mental trap despite having chosen a career that is arguably one of the best paid one for something that&#x27;s not requiring a top level education.<p>My first employer was a service company selling programmers to big companies to do routine maintenance and evolution job. They would staff you in really boring departments, doing really uninteresting job, and would happily keep you in that same situation for years if the client was ready to pay. I could have stayed there, learning nothing, being employed to the minimum of my abilities, and wake up ten years later once the end customer didn&#x27;t have any need for that particular skill anymore.<p>It&#x27;s one of the most dangerous situation to be in, as a developer. You feel comfortable, you earn a decent pay, and then wake up one day in a state of crisis, realizing you&#x27;re now completely obsolete and on a precarious situation.<p>Luckily for me, people close to me had warned me of that kind of trap very early, and so I stayed there only for a year then moved on to a start up (where i could work on great tech and great problems with great people, and being paid for that).
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beshrkayali大约 4 年前
I&#x27;ve seen many people who turn into programming as a job, mainly because they think they&#x27;ll make more money if they switch career, to find out that it&#x27;s not for them after a few years. While I have no personal gripe against them personally (my gripe is with gov initiatives and the plethora of coding schools), and I generally encourage everyone to learn something about programming so that they feel more control about technology they use, working as a programmer &#x2F; developer is definitely NOT for everyone, that is if you&#x27;re interested in not having to switch careers (again) after a few years. Working as a programmer for the long run requires passion, which is a cliche, but there&#x27;s some truth to that. Basically you have to enjoy it, and not just be in it _only_ for the money. I don&#x27;t think this is a special trait to this professing, but I&#x27;ve never worked in anything else to know.
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MrPowers大约 4 年前
I worked in finance for 5 years, passed all 3 CFA exams, and was ready to start studying for the GMAT to get in a top MBA school. Decided to take a hard right and learn programming instead.<p>I loved studying finance, but didn&#x27;t like working finance jobs. Finance is getting more automated anyways, here&#x27;s an excerpt from the front office salary link that&#x27;s in the OP&#x27;s article:<p>&gt; As banks try to automate as much as they can, and as trading takes place electronically using computer algorithms, human beings are becoming far less plentiful in the front office. Goldman Sachs, for example, famously replaced the 600 equities traders it had in the year 2000 with electronic trading systems. Now, Goldman says it only has two actual human traders left.<p>I love working with code. Finance spreadsheets were a bore for me. Complex Scala codebases are a delight.<p>Programming has been an awesome career for me and the flexibility has enabled me to live a completely different life.
omegote大约 4 年前
I can kind of relate to the author. Here in Spain, programming salaries are way _way_ further from those in the UK, let alone the US. The average wage for a senior developer is around 35k€ to 40k€ (roughly 48k USD). The technologies are the same, the working hours are the same, heck I even have to read, write and speak English on a daily basis even tho I&#x27;m in Spain, but the salaries are nowhere near.<p>What&#x27;s even funnier is that the technologies I work with are not that common. In comparison, finding a C++ developer with good knowledge of Linux internals (e.g. me) is much harder than finding front-end web developers, but the former are getting paid way less than the later.<p>The difference with the OP is that I&#x27;ve analyzed the situation and I know that, if I want to improve my financial status, I have to move abroad or start freelancing, but I prefer the current stability I have. Not sure about the future tho.
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_coveredInBees大约 4 年前
If I had to guess, he is likely a front-end engineer and I can kind of sympathize with some of his gripes because I&#x27;ve dabbled with front-end&#x2F;full-stack work myself (benefits of working at a small company and getting to wear different hats) and it seemed absurd to me how much churn there is in the field and how much extra effort you need to put in to remain relevant from an employability standpoint. If your place of employment still uses 5-10 year old tech (and that would be perfectly reasonable) the skills you develop at work aren&#x27;t necessarily making you more attractive to current employers. Even though I was never going to be a full-timd front-end developer, I couldn&#x27;t fathom having to put in the extra effort outside of work just to keep up with developments and the latest and greatest in the field while trying to manage a healthy work-life balance.<p>That being said, I don&#x27;t think that is really the issue here for this person. It reads as someone who has no real passion for programming or his craft and went into the field for perhaps the wrong reasons. I <i>love</i> coding and software engineering. I&#x27;ve loved it ever since I was a child and started with GWBASIC. Even though I went down a different path and ended up with a PhD in Physics, I ultimately couldn&#x27;t be happy without coding in my life and I ended up self teaching myself almost everything I know and making a career switch (ML Engineer + SWE) and I simply can&#x27;t imagine doing anything else. I&#x27;d still choose this path even if I earned half my salary because I enjoy what I do. But I felt exactly like the author in my prior career which over time felt more and more like a grind and something I did just to maintain the status quo and help support my family.<p>The person who wrote the article just needs to make a switch to something they are passionate about, or something that they are equally dispassionate about but provides more compensation (don&#x27;t recommend that trade-off personally). His issues have very little to do with the field of computer programming itself.
imtringued大约 4 年前
Based on title I was thinking of ageism and no matter how much you like the job your career (the series of jobs you do) will end one day and you are forced to move on to a role with more responsibility or be undervalued on the job market because of your age. Nope, not even that, the article is about a guy who is applying to terrible companies.<p>When I was 20 I was extremely worried about ageism and how I will have trouble finding jobs 20 years in the future. I found a lot of potential investments that will help me once that day comes. It&#x27;s just a matter of putting in enough capital and since the job is paying well it&#x27;s just a matter of switching companies regularly and staying employed for 20 years.<p>Contrast this with low paying jobs with no hope of building equity. It&#x27;s not even close.
Graffur大约 4 年前
I don&#x27;t like the title either. It suggests there would be some stats to back up the claim. Instead it is just a single person lamenting their career choice. I am sure that person can be found within every career path.<p>The author suggests he may get a 15k pay rise in the next two years. To me, and probably to most people in the world, that seems quite good. The detail lies in their cost of living and standard of life compared to their peers. The author mentions that the front office staff are getting paid more handsomely. I wonder what those salaries are in comparison.<p>I sympathize with the author around interviews but I feel they, along with the rest of us, should vote with our time and not do silly interviews that you have to study for. Let those companies starve for developers.
mackman大约 4 年前
If you’re a programmer and tired of being a cost center then work at a company where software is the product not a cost of doing business. Then you’ll find the company is focused on growing you and your team instead of trying to minimize your effect on the bottom line.
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ClumsyPilot大约 4 年前
I can certainly sympathyse with those vibes, when I was just starting I was really happy to spend extra time outside work, was happy to see all the new frameworks,etc.<p>Now its all starting to rub me the wrong way, I thibk the culture we have around it is unhealthy
fortnum大约 4 年前
It&#x27;s interesting how the vast majority of comments focus on the salary part when the author actually only lightly touched that subject and mostly covered a completely different subject.<p>Does that tell something about the readers? ;)
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TheOtherHobbes大约 4 年前
£55k is average for someone in the South outside of London. In London you can add £20k to that, and maybe another £10k in the City. (At least you could until recently.)<p>The answer is contract work. If someone can dodge IR35 rules and call themselves a &quot;consultant&quot; or a &quot;solutions architect&quot; they&#x27;ll earn a lot more for almost identical work, with the useful option to leave gracefully if a project is toxic and on fire.<p>The other answer is to leave the UK. Engineering jobs pay much better in some EU countries, and engineering gets a lot more respect as a profession.
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neogodless大约 4 年前
I&#x27;m not someone who will claim the free market solves everything. But in my experience, a programming career gives programmers a wonderfully diverse labor marketplace. You can pretty much make your career what you want it to be.<p>Mine involved doing zero unpaid overtime ever (or no more than say 30-60 minutes here and there). Mine involved doing zero training for puzzle-based tests. Mine involved being paid above average salary compared to many others where I live. And mine involved only enjoyable, hobbyist practice of my craft in my spare time. When I landed in jobs that didn&#x27;t suit me well, I moved to a different job.<p>There may have been a rogue weekend where I got a little work in, or a couple of nights where I was running through tutorials in a language or framework that work needed, so it wasn&#x27;t primarily my curiosity getting me to try it out. But by and large, I&#x27;ve been paid handsomely for being efficient, adding efficiency to organizations, and I&#x27;ve learned what I needed to on the job while enjoying what I do.<p>Personally, I couldn&#x27;t ask for me, though others certainly can and do expect more from their career and from themselves. If you want to be richer than me, you couldn&#x27;t live where I do (or you&#x27;d have to be more attractive to remote-first employers that also pay higher salaries.) So the work you put in tends to reward you, though perhaps the Pareto Principle applies.<p>Now, I can attribute some of my satisfaction in this line of work with timing - getting into web application development in at the turn of the century meant that demand exceeded supply and it was an employee&#x27;s market. But more so, I think, can be attributed to my flexibility, adaptability, willingness to accept change and move (change jobs) to where I could get what I wanted from my career.<p>Perhaps where you live and when you live, software cannot give you the career you desire. If that&#x27;s the case, choose what to change. You cannot change the point in time we are in, but there are certainly software fields that are growing and paying well, so maybe location has to change, or you must seek out more desirable remote positions and make yourself a fit for them. If that isn&#x27;t what you&#x27;re willing to do, then perhaps the field is wrong for you, and you must make a bigger change.
hsuduebc2大约 4 年前
I&#x27;m feeling kinda weird about this. Programming is a craft, it&#x27;s specific set of skills which enables you to develop computer software. If your intent is to sell your skill eg. time to employer then you are probably never going to be &quot;rich&quot;. I think that software development have one of the lowest financial barriers to go into own business even as a freelancer. This attitude makes author think that it&#x27;s his &quot;worst choice&quot;. Obviously not the fact that he have clearly above the average salary.
kazinator大约 4 年前
&gt; <i>If you want to stay employable as a programmer, you need to keep up to speed with new techniques and new languages.</i><p>Hi, I&#x27;ve been doing C on Unix for 30 years, with a digression into C++ on Win32 along the way and some C++ on Unix.<p>(&quot;Unix&quot; includes GNU&#x2F;Linux).<p>All of it has been mostly new development, or new development in the context of legacy code, not maintaining legacy code.<p>If you have to keep learning new languages, it&#x27;s because you jumped on the language-of-the-day wagon in the first place.<p>I jumped on the &quot;close to what makes tech work&quot; wagon.
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jrochkind1大约 4 年前
£70k ($92k) seems like a pretty good salary to me? Probably quite a bit more than median income in both the US and UK, no? Doesn&#x27;t seem like the <i>worst</i> choice of career even as experienced by OP, if we&#x27;re talking about that in terms of income, which the OP largely is.<p>While the center of the short essay on it&#x27;s surface is about income, I suspect, maybe, the real dissatifaction is that the author simply doesn&#x27;t enjoy their job on the day-to-day, they find it unpleasant?
nearmuse大约 4 年前
Why is this even posted here? There is no real name on it, it spews one false and&#x2F;or provocative statement after another without trying to provide any proof.
gmuslera大约 4 年前
In some countries is one of the safest way to get a job. Trying other careers may get you more free time, but it could be too much free time because you can&#x27;t get a job at all. I&#x27;m not sure about if its a good long term strategy, but you need to survive the present to reach the future.<p>And you can get outdated in other careers too, there are a lot of advancements all over the field, and a lot of it is related to IT (i.e. data processing).
underseacables大约 4 年前
Computer programming is a lot like many other technical professions, many people can do it. It’s unfortunate that a profession which was seen as essential to the technological revolution, now is a race to the bottom to find the cheapest programmers who will work the longest hours. I’m in sales, and it is painful to see so many good programmers get pushed out as soon as they hit 45 years of age.<p>Edited for grammar and spelling.
ch_123大约 4 年前
Judging by the name of this site, and other articles on it, I&#x27;m guessing that _maybe_ this author works in banking or finance, and that this may be a major factor in why they do not like their job.<p>Regarding the need to keep learning - for some people that is a big part of the attraction, not a downside. Sure, it&#x27;s not for everyone, but saying that it&#x27;s a generally bad career choice is a bit of a stretch.
nayuki大约 4 年前
I don&#x27;t like the headline. But the article does explain why <i>he feels</i> it&#x27;s the wrong career choice <i>for himself</i>. I can understand many of the reasons he cited, but many can be refuted. For example he can double or triple his salary by moving to the USA and working for a FAANG company. He can also choose to work at companies that view programmers as a valuable resource than a cost center.
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aerosmile大约 4 年前
A lot of people are taking the writer&#x27;s content at face value and biting. Could it be that this guy is just really bad at what he does, and as such he couldn&#x27;t get a well-paying job? He even gives us a hint:<p>&gt; Personally, I&#x27;ve already spent months doing unpaid work on testing sites, and yet I&#x27;m still stuck in the same place.
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vanchizzle大约 4 年前
If the article was posted a couple of days ago - how does its page have comments from a couple of <i>years</i> ago?
romille大约 4 年前
<i>Personally, I&#x27;ve already spent months doing unpaid work on testing sites, and yet I&#x27;m still stuck in the same place.</i><p>Have others encountered this? I have not but I do wonder if the hiring process is becoming more demanding &#x2F; time consuming.<p>Maybe the author needs a coach or needs to network more.
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neophyt3大约 4 年前
It seems like author took too much of the responsibility, like 10X dev. Its better to take less responsibility with slightly above average salary and get more of personal time.. this reminds of a story about fish finding for ocean from a movie Soul
unnouinceput大约 4 年前
I agree with the article&#x27;s author. He should definitely go to another field, programming is not for everybody. You need passion in the first place and then you need the will to see through with the passion. From his rant he seems to lack both.
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enobrev大约 4 年前
There are ways to make programming an excellent career. I&#x27;ve found quite a few of them - some more lucrative than others, and some more creative than others. I don&#x27;t think author of this article is on their way to finding any of them.
leothekim大约 4 年前
“worst choice of career” rings of hyperbole. For many it’s a ticket out of their current career. For all their flaws, boot camps and Lambda School are popular for a reason.<p>This article just reads like sour grapes.
savydv大约 4 年前
If you are not utilizing your skills to make something that can earn for you, like some tools or app anything.
ausbah大约 4 年前
people who say programmers need &quot;passion&quot; in this field always strongly smells of gatekeeping to me
EvilEy3大约 4 年前
&gt; How I thought I would make a huge buck while doing nothing and found out that I&#x27;m wrong
fortnum大约 4 年前
Fully agree with the author.<p>Even if he might have over-simplified things, the bottom line is true.