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Bitcoin's vast energy use could burst its bubble

65 点作者 avi_vallarapu大约 4 年前

23 条评论

cletus大约 4 年前
Yeah this has increasingly become my view [1].<p>It seems to me that Bitcoin has only really solved one problem: to allow transactions that governments don&#x27;t allow and there&#x27;s really two classes of that:<p>1. Illegal stuff<p>2. Capital controls and other government impediments on the movement of money.<p>What I didn&#x27;t realize until Bitcoin was nearing $1000 was just how much (2) contributed to driving its value, specifically all the affluent Chinese (who are subject to capital controls) who used Bitcoin mining to move wealth beyond the reach of the Chinese government. I really wish I&#x27;d figured that out earlier but hindsight is 20&#x2F;20.<p>At this point it&#x27;s hard to view anything other than speculation as driving Bitcoin prices.<p>We&#x27;re still figuring out what cryptocurrencies are. I don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s likely to be as a currency anytime soon. Traditional currencies just have better properties (stability in value, reversible transactions and the banking system are more of a feature than a bug). If it&#x27;s an asset, it&#x27;s hard yet to say what drives the price so this is little more than gambling.<p>That really just leaves it as a temporary medium for exchange and for Bitcoin at least, we&#x27;re spending an awful lot of energy to maintain that.<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=26213693" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=26213693</a>
DennisP大约 4 年前
&gt; The CCAF team surveys the people who manage the Bitcoin network around the world on their energy use and found that about two-thirds of it is from fossil fuels.<p>Nice to see actual data on this. Bitcoin advocates keep claiming it&#x27;s mostly renewable.
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pfisch大约 4 年前
Why would this cause the bubble to burst? Btc doesn&#x27;t require the difficulty to be this high to function.<p>&quot;The fact is, it&#x27;s not really used much in the legal economy now. Yes, one rich person sells it to another, but that&#x27;s not a final use. And without that it really doesn&#x27;t have a long-term future.&quot;<p>Sentences like this make me think the author is clueless. That could be said of any neutral storage of value, like gold.<p>Btc is super convenient compared to gold, and transacting with it can&#x27;t be easily shut down by anyone. Seems like that is all btc needs to be. It could be more maybe, but that is hardly a requirement for it to be successful.
JulianMorrison大约 4 年前
Bitcoin needs to get mapped across 1:1 to something that doesn&#x27;t require vast number crunching energy use, and the old blockchain abandoned
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geoduck14大约 4 年前
Bitcoin can stay irrational longer than I can stay solvent.
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madrox大约 4 年前
There are a lot of arguments against Bitcoin, and the energy consumption argument has always struck me as the most asinine. It&#x27;s an anchoring fallacy rooted in the fact that bitcoin&#x27;s energy consumption is easy to estimate with a fair amount of confidence. However, because Bitcoin is easy and other industries are hard, we do not scrutinize the utility of any other industry in this way, though data suggests global video gaming is a comparable energy hog[1][2]. We have no way of estimating the energy consumption of the finance industry, and I wouldn&#x27;t trust any attempt. Bitcoin is being compared to countries instead of other industries because it looks alarming, but many global industries that rely on energy look like this.<p>I hate pointing this out, because I get misconstrued as a Bitcoin supporter. I hold no Bitcoin, and I never have because of other principles. However, criticisms such as this one don&#x27;t create constructive conversation, in my experience. Unless we want to start regulating what you can and cannot use energy for in your home, there&#x27;s no point to thinking this way. The fossil fuel angle, in my mind, is simply a sign that we need to get off fossil fuels, Bitcoin or not.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.researchgate.net&#x2F;publication&#x2F;257768246_Electricity_consumption_and_energy_savings_potential_of_video_game_consoles_in_the_United_States" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.researchgate.net&#x2F;publication&#x2F;257768246_Electrici...</a> - US energy consumption by video game consoles in the US alone was 16 TWh in 2010<p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;grist.org&#x2F;article&#x2F;video-games-consume-more-electricity-than-25-power-plants-can-produce&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;grist.org&#x2F;article&#x2F;video-games-consume-more-electrici...</a> - Globally, PC gaming (not console gaming) was estimated at 75 TWh in 2018
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nodamage大约 4 年前
It&#x27;s worth noting that Tether has not minted any significant amount of new coins since the NYAG settlement was announced. If the terms of the settlement effectively prevent them from being able to print any more coins, we will soon find out whether or not the theory of Tether propping up the price of BTC was indeed accurate or not.
trhway大约 4 年前
All the such energy&#x2F;BTC arguments miss that BTC (and other crypto) mining in space has no limit and will become feasible when Starships start flying. And it looks to be more profitable than asteroid mining :)<p>People frequently raise the issue of cooling in space while missing the fact that at 60C 1m2 radiates away 700w - enough to cool 3-4 mining GPUs which can basically be just slapped on that heatsink.
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m00dy大约 4 年前
Hi guys,<p>I&#x27;m trying to reach bitcoin miners or mining farms that are powered by renewable energy. Anyone can help me to get any leads ?<p>eren@countingcarbons.co
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juanbyrge大约 4 年前
It is quite pathetic that a purported &#x27;future of payments&#x27; is so inefficient in so many ways. This is why I will never participate in systems like bitcoin that consume hundreds of TwH (and growing) each year.
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Shadonototro大约 4 年前
And if they fix the energy problem? what&#x27;s gonna happen?<p>bitcoin issue is not energy consumption, it&#x27;s just useless, it&#x27;s used to scam people, lot of pump&#x2F;dump and market manipulation<p>same for other altcoins, this is shady buisiness
nabla9大约 4 年前
Lack of market liquidity is what will burst Bitcoin bubble.
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scotty79大约 4 年前
Bitcoin is just a way of funneling money from financial markets into energy production.<p>Since we will need way more energy to produce out carbon free all electric future and solar is cheapest way to get new energy already I believe that bitcoin will eventually lead to more investment in renewables.<p>And since bitcoin mining is variable load that can easily be adjusted to momentary demand for electricity I think it will solve the problem of storing energy from renewables. Why store energy if you can produce vastly more than is needed and use excess whenever available to mine bitcoin?
bpodgursky大约 4 年前
Great. I welcome this!<p>[continues to hold my Proof-of-Stake Ethereum]
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debbiedowner大约 4 年前
Why is proof of work so much more popular than proof of stake?
Triv888大约 4 年前
If you stop mining bitcoins, Bitcoin would not disappear....
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blfr大约 4 年前
Reminds me of this tweet.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;HedgingChaos&#x2F;status&#x2F;1364675046191546377" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;HedgingChaos&#x2F;status&#x2F;1364675046191546377</a>
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avi_vallarapu大约 4 年前
This seems to be at the cost of the something much more expensive. The bubble bursts sometimes soon ?
anm89大约 4 年前
And then this one time, bitcoin went all the way up to $30 and then crashed all the way down to $13.<p>And another time bitcoin went all the way up to $1100 and then crashed all the way down to $200.<p>So the moral of this story is don&#x27;t buy bitcoin. You know it&#x27;s going to crash.
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chemmail大约 4 年前
Really just more crybabies crying. It is only about 20x more than the total electricity used annually for Xmas lights in the USA. Thank about it. If you want to save the environment. Cancelling Xmas is a much better choice.
someguydave大约 4 年前
low effort clickbait
capableweb大约 4 年前
What about if the supposed &quot;bubble&quot; lasts until it&#x27;s unfeasible to continue mining on the same speed as now? Eventually, bitcoin will have been mined, and then there is no need for as much mining, depending on transaction fees only. By then the energy use is massively lowered as well.
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auntienomen大约 4 年前
I have come to beieve that bitcoin is art. No intrinsic value, and each unit is individually labeled, nearly as identifiable as a numbered print.
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